Supposed trips to heaven

[Zmouth]

It is an attack on the omniscience of God.

It doesn't matter does it if God isn't omniscient does it? If it was an attack on omniscience of God then he must of knew all things because it is written:

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1 John 2:20-21

Jesus said: No one has ascended to heaven but He who came
down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Since the gospel hadn't been written yet this he spake in the Spirit right?

2 Cor 12:2
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

[duewell]

physical trips to heaven or hell? nope. spiritual trips to heaven or hell? yep. using scripture to disprove someones spiritual experience is done all the time. fortunately there is a bible verse for that situation 1 corinthians 2:14. the bible teaches us how to have the spiritual experience before our earthly bodies cease to function. once our earthly bodies cease to function, regardless of religion or belief or lack thereof, is a spiritual experience. no one is waiting in heaven or hell for us to show up there and explain how the bible works.

down here on the ground tho its another story. the lawyers have taken over religion. it shouldn't be a surprise that they did this, as they have always done this. they don't want to hear about your dreams or visions or prophecies, it interferes with their goals and desires, whatever those may be. so what is a spiritual person to do? argue with the cooks over the recipe book in the kitchen? meanwhile in the cafeteria, there are starving customers who are taught they wont be hungry once they die. its like reading a bible written in braille to a deaf audience who insist on sitting in the dark. they tend to freak out on someone trying to turn on a light, hey that light cant come on until we are dead. they can hear and see while insisting that they are deaf and blind.

mark 4 v 11-13
duewell

 

[KALYNA18]

There was a story where the rich man died and asked someone if he could go back and tell his family about the terrible place he was in, it was replied back that no man has ever went back to earth, neither from heaven or hell. I will find that scripture. Ty.

[/QUOTE It's been a short while, but I did say was going to get back with this verse. Luke 16 14:31 It's good to read it on your own from the NKJV but verse 26 is saying:{And besides all this,between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.} The first of it talks about 2 people, a rich man, and Lazarus. Next time I will copy and paste, that first part like now. In the goodnite thread.

 

[stonesoffire]

The gulf is between the bosom of Abraham, and hell. Or was. One of those was emptied out.

 

[dcontroversal]

There was a story where the rich man died and asked someone if he could go back and tell his family about the terrible place he was in, it was replied back that no man has ever went back to earth, neither from heaven or hell. I will find that scripture. Ty.

Luke 16.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said: No one has ascended to heaven but He who came
down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Key word being ascended........just a thought....

a) What about Elijah? <---Taken Up in a fiery chariot
b) What about Paul? <--Caught up in spirit or body he could not tell

Again, I think the key word is ascended (as of one's own accord)

Just something to ponder

 

[HisHolly]

Enoch was also taken up and never faced physical death..

 

[LaurenTM]

Recently my church hosted a preacher who claimed to have visited heaven. I did not recognize his name so I googled him and was worried by what I saw:

I checked out his website and his own vignette stated that, "discouraged with only 10 healings in a 26 year ministry he sought breakthrough by studying the Sid Roth show 6-8 hours a day". I think studying the Sid Roth show for 8 hours a day would more likely lead you into a chronic vegetative state instead of a deeper relationship with God.

He said in an interview with Sid Roth:

"An angel came to me and he had sandy brown hair. He took me up into theheavens. I was taken to the body parts room and there

​

on the table and hanging were literally
hearts, kidneys, bones, livers, different body parts, fingers, eyes, ears, all kinds of body parts.
And there were two angels assigned to me. One was an angel that would give me revelation
concerning healing, miracles and other matters, and the other was an angel that would minister
with me in the area of miracles. And the angel that was assigned to me for miracles told me that
God was gonna have me bring His healing power to the nations."

​

He also claimed that while in heaven the Lord gave him books. "He read how to pierce the heavenly veil so the Father’s supernatural blessings can be released".

My problems with this:
1. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that the scripture we all have is all we need to be equipped for "every" good work.
No further revelation is needed and any further revelation is condemned.

Claims of extra biblical revelation are blasphemy because it is saying God forgot to add something to His written word and it took Him 2000 years to remember it. It is an attack on the omniscience of God.

2. Why would the God who spoke the universe into existence need to grow body parts.
3. Paul warned that those who boast of angelic visions were actually unspiritual, puffed up in the fleshy minds, and separated from Christ. Colossians 2:18-19
4. Those prophets mentioned in the bible as having prophetic visions of heaven were fixated on Gods glory and their own sin. Modern day prophets are fixated on talking flowers, body parts rooms etc.. with little to no mention of Gods glory.
5. Why would this man need angels to give him revelation? That is the Holy Spirits job to open the written word to all Christians as it is studied, preached and taught using proper biblical exegesis.
6. If God needs this mans help to "pierce the heavenly veil" so "His blessings can be released" That is an attack on His omnipotence. Such a claim is blasphemy.

I have also seen videos of this man associating with the angel feather and gold dust crowed. What has light to do with darkness.

My pastor brushes all these things aside and people at my church seem willing to accept this person as great man of God without asking any questions. Where has discernment gone?

What are your thoughts?

reject

reject

reject

and did I say reject?

and reject Sid Roth too while you are at it....

 

[samuel23]

It seems obvious to me that God spoke the final word through the last of the apostles(John) and any attempt to add anything else is dangerous. There is a woman who claims to have received 40 daily visits from Jesus Himself who supposedly told her to tell us about Hell. Most of that kind of stuff is dangerous. Can a Christian have a vision or dream where God shows them something? I say yes,but rarely, and the experience is usually for them alone.

 

[Yiska]

[...]

My problems with this:
1. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that the scripture we all have is all we need to be equipped for "every" good work.
No further revelation is needed and any further revelation is condemned. [...]

Claims of extra biblical revelation are blasphemy because it is saying God forgot to add something to His written word and it took Him 2000 years to remember it. It is an attack on the omniscience of God. [...]

What are your thoughts?

Through much study of the Scriptures I have learned not give the doctrines of persons who see visions and make claims I don't understand much thought. I do not have the discernment to know whether God has moved them to speak, or not. And because of the admonishment in Jude 9-11, I tremble before God's Word not to speak ill of people with claims of spiritual teachings or experiences. In addition, I believe that your paraphrase of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is not accurate as the text doesn't talk about condemning further revelation (this does not mean that I am saying the aforementioned preacher who studied Sid Roth is correct or in error).

In 1 Corinthians 14:26 Paul talks about believers coming together for among other reasons to share revelations. Additionally, it is clear through Jesus' Words that we only can believe in Christ Jesus through God the Father revealing Him to us. That is all a revelation is, something that is revealed. Learned. Lastly, in 1 Corinthians 14:29-33 we read how revelations by members in the church are to be presented in an orderly manner.


Matthew 16:16-18 King James Version (KJV)

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Jude 9-10 King James Version (KJV)

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


1 Corinthians 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


1 Corinthians 14:29-33 King James Version (KJV)

Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Sounds like he has some kind of mental condition

It's disturbing that he hasn't been given some kind of help, but been invited to Churches instead

 

[Chris2552]

I think the whole healing thing in general leads people astray from the bible.

The main purpose of the bible has nothing to do with physical healing at all.

God says cut off your own hand and throw it away if its causing you to sin.

God's main concern, is saving our spiritual life rathen then physical.

I dunno why there is such a big push for healing miracles lately, or any miracles for that matter.

In my opinion 100% i would rather be able to go up to people and tell them how much God loves them, lay my hands on them and have them feel that love. God's love alone is all we need, it heals in alot more ways then any other miracle in the bible can.

 

[maxwel]

Trip to Heaven?

Most people can't make a trip across their own city without GPS.

Not to mention... that's one huge tank of gas.

 

[presidente]

I think the whole healing thing in general leads people astray from the bible.

The main purpose of the bible has nothing to do with physical healing at all.

God says cut off your own hand and throw it away if its causing you to sin.

Jesus said that, but He also healed a lot of people. Much of the content of the gospels is made up of accounts of Jesus healing people.

In my opinion 100% i would rather be able to go up to people and tell them how much God loves them, lay my hands on them and have them feel that love. God's love alone is all we need, it heals in alot more ways then any other miracle in the bible can.

If God heals someone, do you think that person might get a sense of how much God loves him?

 

[OneFaith]

I'm so glad you recognize this falsehood. After Revelation was COMPLETE, Jesus Himself warned not to add anything to God's Word, nor take anything away from it. Now that God's Word is complete, we no longer need prophets to tell us what God says, therefore we no longer need miracles to identify them. When completion comes, what was incomplete it taken away, but faith, hope, and love remain. We have the complete Word of God. The only way one can prophesy today is to say what the Bible already prophesies.

As you said, scripture equips us for every good work, now that it is complete. Also, in Colossians, God said He does not show favoritism. People who go to torment cannot come back to the earth as a ghost, and no one can visit them from the earth. Likewise, humans cannot visit heaven, or paradise from the earth, nor can someone in paradise visit those on the earth NOW that God's Word is complete. Before God's Word was complete, only three beings came back- Samuel, Moses, and Elijah.

Lol, God does not need to make backup body parts, like you said. What is He going to come down and perform transplant surgery? Here's how it works- you get one heart, one liver, etc. God then punishes sin with disease, or heals at His discretion.

Anyone who teaches you something that is not found in the Bible is a false teacher- whether they know it or not. Satan has convinced some that they do have new revelations from God, and may be genuine according to their own conscience. But even if someone is fully convinced they are a bunny rabbit, or anything else that they are not, does not make it true just because they believe it.

 

[Chris2552]

Jesus said that, but He also healed a lot of people. Much of the content of the gospels is made up of accounts of Jesus healing people.

If God heals someone, do you think that person might get a sense of how much God loves him?

Sure they may get a sense. I guess it really depends on the severity of the sickness.

I think the real question is.
Why did the miracles stop for the last 2,000 years, i know there are some isolated instances, but overall nothing on a large scale?

I think it has more to do with who Jesus was than anything. He was pure and sinless, he understood everything about God, his words were all in-line with God 100%. There was no chance for people to get mislead through Jesus, when they turned to him for understanding about God, when he performed the miracles.

 

[presidente]

OneFaith, this is an elaborate theory, but the specifics of it aren't taught in the Bible. What it amounts to is doctrine not taught by the apostles, not part of the 'faith once delivered to the saints.

I'm so glad you recognize this falsehood. After Revelation was COMPLETE, Jesus Himself warned not to add anything to God's Word, nor take anything away from it.

Jesus warned against adding to the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation predicts that two witnesses would prophesy. It also mentions the blood of prophets that would be found in Babylon. The book of Revelation is not saying that the gift of prophecy ceased. It warns against adding to the book.

[FONT=&quot]Revelation 22
18 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]`For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,[/FONT]

Now that God's Word is complete, we no longer need prophets to tell us what God says, therefore we no longer need miracles to identify them.

This is a line of reasoning not taught in scripture. The Bible also does not teach that the sole purpose of miracles to identify prophets. We see in the Bible that some prophets did miracles. There are no miracles mentioned in relation to most of the prophets in the Old Testament. The apostles did miracles that bore witness to the Gospel message, but there are other people, Stephen and Philip, who did miracles that bore witness the message that the apostles received. I Corinthians 12 indicates that the working of miracles is also given to certain believers who are not apostles or prophets.

The Bible does not teach that miracles were only to identify prophets.

When completion comes, what was incomplete it taken away, but faith, hope, and love remain. We have the complete Word of God. The only way one can prophesy today is to say what the Bible already prophesies.

You seem to be referring to I Corinthians 13. Paul described his speech, knowledge, and understanding before the perfect came to that of a child, while after the perfect comes, it will be like an adult's. Do you think that your understanding of the mysteries of Christ are so great that Paul's was childish by comparison? Did the apostles record a childish understanding of these mysteries, which, by reading, you can gain an adult's understanding?

As you said, scripture equips us for every good work, now that it is complete.

A reference to a book written during a time when Timothy was to stir up a gift that was in him by the laying on of hands. A reference to a book written during a time, like ours, when the gift of prophecy was active in the church.

Also, in Colossians, God said He does not show favoritism. People who go to torment cannot come back to the earth as a ghost, and no one can visit them from the earth. Likewise, humans cannot visit heaven, or paradise from the earth, nor can someone in paradise visit those on the earth NOW that God's Word is complete. Before God's Word was complete, only three beings came back- Samuel, Moses, and Elijah.

Paul wrote of a man who had a vision of the third heaven. I'm not vouching for accounts of trips to heaven on this thread, but the story did seem to be about a vision.

Where do you get anything about Samuel going to heaven and coming back?

Anyone who teaches you something that is not found in the Bible is a false teacher- whether they know it or not.

That's funny. This post of yours teaches some ideas not found in the Bible.

 

[buddyt]

I sometime wonder where Sid gets these Jug Heads.

 

[garee]

Key word being ascended........just a thought....

a) What about Elijah? <---Taken Up in a fiery chariot
b) What about Paul? <--Caught up in spirit or body he could not tell

Again, I think the key word is ascended (as of one's own accord)

Just something to ponder

Those are parables. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, even in respect to the Son of man who informs us His flesh profits for nothing.zero, nada, zip .

Paul was caught up with the Spirit of Christ who dwelt in him .Its called inspiration. He never moved one inch from where he was standing .

 

[Demi777]

you forgot Enoch

Key word being ascended........just a thought....

a) What about Elijah? <---Taken Up in a fiery chariot
b) What about Paul? <--Caught up in spirit or body he could not tell

Again, I think the key word is ascended (as of one's own accord)

Just something to ponder