Supposed trips to heaven

[presidente]

He never moved one inch from where he was standing .

Paul said the man (who many of us think was probably himself) was caught up into the third heaven. He wrote, "whether in the body or out of the body I do not know".

It is funny how you can be so absolutely certain of something the Bible does not say. If Paul did not know, how could you? But I notice that pattern in a lot of your posts, a lot of ascertions you do not back up with scripture.

 

[Deelee33]

I think that you already quoted the correct scripture to prove this guy isn't being biblical...not to mention a little macabre... I've also been curious about when people claim to have had a near death experiences in which they see Christ or heaven. What do you all think about that?

 

[garee]

Paul said the man (who many of us think was probably himself) was caught up into the third heaven. He wrote, "whether in the body or out of the body I do not know".

If his spirit left his body he would be dead.Even the Son of man could not be alive in two places at the same time.

Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It is funny how you can be so absolutely certain of something the Bible does not say. If Paul did not know, how could you?

12 To boast, really, is not profitable for me, for I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

Not that he could go out of his body to the lord.The vision comes to him.

Visions and revelations of the Lord not out of a human body, experiences.

2 I have known a man in Christ, fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I have not known, whether out of the body I have not known, God hath known -- such an one being caught away unto the third heaven;


Whether he was a Christian or not Paul did not know. Caught away is to be led by the Spirit of Christ that dwelt in Paul. The third, three being the end of the matter is the same as saying caught in the Bosom of Abraham, another way of saying the invisible presence of God.

and I have known such a man -- whether in the body, whether out of the body, I have not known, God hath known, -- that he was caught away to the paradise, and heard unutterable sayings, that it is not possible for man to speak.2 Corinthians 12

The man uttered prophecy, something impossible for man.

But I notice that pattern in a lot of your posts, a lot of ascertions you do not back up with scripture.

I see that in another way I offer them from another perspective . Some do not believe they could apply .

When the Son of man began his ministry as the only one who saw a vision as information came in .Not that he was out of his body , seeing again he would be dead. He alone witnessed the vision and heard the voice.

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Mat 3:16

It was then that the father of lies who has no form brought into the mind of the Son of man . He showed Christ a vision of all the kingdoms of this world and the glory of it without moving an inch in the sand.

The Son of man cast out that worker of iniquity over and over he replied, as it is written again and again

So its lying spirits bring in lies. Not that a person leaves their body .That would be sudden death . No such thing in the Christian world, as literally out of their body experiences.

It’s the same with hypnotism lying spirits bringing in lies as that not seen by the human eye.

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. Mat 4:10

 

[dcontroversal]

Those are parables. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, even in respect to the Son of man who informs us His flesh profits for nothing.zero, nada, zip .

Paul was caught up with the Spirit of Christ who dwelt in him .Its called inspiration. He never moved one inch from where he was standing .

Not hardly.......no where does it indicate that they are parables...try again pal!

 

[dcontroversal]

you forgot Enoch

Did not forget, just did not include him....thanks though...

 

[dcontroversal]

Those are parables. Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God, even in respect to the Son of man who informs us His flesh profits for nothing.zero, nada, zip .

Paul was caught up with the Spirit of Christ who dwelt in him .Its called inspiration. He never moved one inch from where he was standing .

Jesus in a glorified body said TOUCH my FLESH thrust your hand into my side, HE ATE WITH the disciples....HE ASCENDED in a Glorified BODY..............

Paul SAID...Whether in BODY or SPIRIT he could not TELL...and you know? Not hardly!

 

[oldethennew]

this is a Godly mystery, that we are not given the whole understanding of, but we do know about
visions and such and we must leave the rest to Jesus to when He allows us to understand as He wills,
when He wills...at least that is what we have learned...

 

[royalscot]

to be taught with the holy spirit, is not only reading the logos , but the rhema, is an other thing.
for example.

if you can not understand the logos. there is no point taking to you about the rhema.

10 I spoke to the prophets;
it was I who multiplied visions,
and through the prophets gave parables.Hosea 12:



The Purpose of the Parables
10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
"'You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.
15 For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear.17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.Matthew 13




Prophecy and Parables
34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable.35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:
"I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world."Matthew 13

 

[presidente]

If his spirit left his body he would be dead.Even the Son of man could not be alive in two places at the same time.

You still seem to think you know better than Paul. John was in the spirit on the Lord's day. If Paul's body did not go to heaven when he (or 'the man') had the experience, that doesn't mean he died. Are you disagreeing with Paul about the man being caught up into the third heaven?

12 To boast, really, is not profitable for me, for I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

Not that he could go out of his body to the lord.The vision comes to him.

Visions and revelations of the Lord not out of a human body, experiences.

2 I have known a man in Christ, fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I have not known, whether out of the body I have not known, God hath known -- such an one being caught away unto the third heaven;


Whether he was a Christian or not Paul did not know.

Are you disagreeing with Paul's wording?
Did you write that last sentence incorrectly?

 

[Yiska]

I do not know which persons' near death experiences are legitimate; I just trust in this regard that God's ways are higher than my ways and His thoughts are higher than my thoughts. As for persons who see visions of heaven, I also do not know which ones are legitimate. I know that Jesus says: "The kingdom of God is within you." This being so, one believer has nothing to boast over another. The one is blessed who has not seen and yet believes.


Luke 8:49-56 New King James Version (NKJV)

While He was still speaking, someone came from the ruler of the synagogue’s house, saying to him, “Your daughter is dead. Do not trouble the Teacher.”

But when Jesus heard it, He answered him, saying, “Do not be afraid; only believe, and she will be made well.” When He came into the house, He permitted no one to go in except Peter, James, and John, and the father and mother of the girl. Now all wept and mourned for her; but He said, “Do not weep; she is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him, knowing that she was dead.

But He put them all outside, took her by the hand and called, saying, “Little girl, arise.” Then her spirit returned, and she arose immediately. And He commanded that she be given something to eat. And her parents were astonished, but He charged them to tell no one what had happened.


Luke 23:42-43 New King James Version (NKJV)

Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”