Talking against the law is dangerous

[john832]

The law doesn't protect anyone.

Where do you get this stuff?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

 

[Grandpa]

Well, whaddya know, we agree on something...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So how do we Keep His Perfect Law? How do we become Perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect?

Romans 7:12 [SUP] [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Romans 7:14 [SUP] [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

Uh, OK...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with what I said or trying to refute it, but those verses reinforce what I was saying... It is the "Uh, OK..." that has me confused.

 

[john832]

So how do we Keep His Perfect Law? How do we become Perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect?

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

To here some talk we do it by not even trying. We do it by telling ourselves the Law is done away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So are Romans 3 and 7 referring to the law of love or the law of Moses?
So did God make a covenant of love with Israel through a set of condemning law?
So the One who gives the law of love does He not eventually condemn those do not obey?

I have answered this so many times, Do you ever even listen ot the answer. Why do you keep asking the same questions?

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

So what law have we become dead to?? Was it not the law of Moses?

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

What Law were we delivered from SO THAT we have the ability to serve in the newness of the spirit. is it not the law of moses?

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

So what law is weak in the flesh (carnality) and caused God to send his son in the flesh? Was it not mosaic law?

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So what law does christ make an end of? Is it not mosaic law?

Galatians 3:10 [ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do

So what law brings us under a curse? Is it not mosaic law? And is it not WHY we need Christ to make us dead to the law, and alive to Christ?

Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

So what law was a tutur? Which we needed to lead us to Christ. And after we found Christ, the law was no longer needed? Was it not mosaic law?

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

So, Who is lead by the spirit. but the children of God. And what law are they no longer under? Is it not mosaic law?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

So there is NO LAW which shows us the fruit of the spirit is there. The mosaic law has no ability to show us the fruit of the spirit. there it is in black and white. or should I change the color so you can see more clearly?

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished (killed or destroyed) in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

WHo abolished the law of commandments. And what law is this? Is this not mosaic law?

so quesition my friend.

Why do you want to take what Christ made dead in our lives, and make it alive again, What purpose would it serve to make alive that which can only condemn us??

 

[just-me]

Just so there's no misunderstanding, here's the passage of the ministry of death:
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

My understanding is, those who have turned to the Lord could read Moses i.e. the law, with the veil, which once covered the heart, removed. The written letters, which were the spoken word of God, would no longer kill but give freedom from sin instead.
The way it was supposed to be.

That's it. God's word don't lie.

 

[john832]

I can't tell if you are agreeing with what I said or trying to refute it, but this reinforces what I was saying... It is the "Uh, OK..." that has me confused.

Sorry, I was agreeing, but I sometimes make a casual comment like this. Actually, I should not do this...

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

And I do say this in all sincerity, thanks.

A very wise man told me many years ago...

"Don't ever confuse the instrument of correction with the author." I stand corrected.

 

[CWJ]

'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ,
Who is our life,
shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
Mortify (or reckon as dead) therefore your members which are upon the earth;
fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness,
which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these;
anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy,
filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another,
seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man,
which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him:
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew,
circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free:
but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on therefore,
as the elect of God,
holy and beloved,
bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Forbearing one another,
and forgiving one another,
if any man have a quarrel against any:
even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity,
which is the bond of perfectness.
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts,
to the which also ye are called in one body;
and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom;
teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,
singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,
giving thanks to God and the Father by Him.'
(Col 3:1-17)

Praise God!

* With instruction such as this, how can an argument such as this thread presents have any relevance to the one who has been declared 'not guilty' by God Himself in Christ, and made 'complete', and 'Holy and Without Blame'because of what Christ has done. In Whom 'there is no condemnation', and who has been 'made mete to partake of the inheritance of the saints' - 'in light'?

Anything less than this does no honour to the One Who has given us life eternal and full of glory, in Whom we are 'accepted in the Beloved'. Why would we need the shadows, when we have the reality in Christ.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grandpa]

My understanding is, those who have turned to the Lord could read Moses i.e. the law, with the veil, which once covered the heart, removed. The written letters, which were the spoken word of God, would no longer kill but give freedom from sin instead.
The way it was supposed to be.

Your understanding is the veil.

The law always had one purpose. There is no secondary purpose.

The law was designed to show the whole world their need for a Saviour.

Once we are saved we can see what the Lord Jesus has done in us by the Holy Spirit to cause us to walk in His Statutes and obey His Law. But if we come out from under His Covering of Grace, even for a moment, to attempt to Keep His Law in our own strength it begins to do what it was always designed to do. Condemnation and Death.

Can anyone, even saved Christians, look back at the law and say "I'm perfect now. I remember when I used to be imperfect. Now all that condemnation and death is actually beautiful." The only thing I find beautiful about the law is that it brings me running back to my Saviour, each time, every time... sorry sorry I thought I was awesome for a minute, I didn't realize that it was all You...

 

[chubbena]

The law doesn't protect anyone. The law is attempting to curb the behaviour of the lawless, those who continually break the law. But it doesn't. It doesn't have that power. What it can do is cause fear. Fear of the consequences of breaking it. But, as you have probably seen, fear of consequences doesn't stop the lawless from breaking laws.

Those who are honest and good do honest and good things therefore not needing a law to tell them not to do bad things.

Honesty and goodness are much more powerful than law. There is no fear in honesty and goodness. There is no condemnation in honesty and goodness. There is no law against honesty and goodness.

The way I see how the law protects me:
a. from doing wrong.
b. from putting to shame.
c. from sinning.
d. from scorn and contempt.
e. from worthless things.
f. from deceitful ways.
g. from hopelessness.
h. from bad judgments.
i. from wandering away.
j. from ignorance.
k. from fainting.
l. from perishing in affliction.
m. from death.
n. from foolishness.
o. from evil path.
p. from the ruling of sin.

c.f. Psalm 119

 

[chubbena]

Your understanding is the veil.

The law always had one purpose. There is no secondary purpose.

The law was designed to show the whole world their need for a Saviour.

Once we are saved we can see what the Lord Jesus has done in us by the Holy Spirit to cause us to walk in His Statutes and obey His Law. But if we come out from under His Covering of Grace, even for a moment, to attempt to Keep His Law in our own strength it begins to do what it was always designed to do. Condemnation and Death.

Can anyone, even saved Christians, look back at the law and say "I'm perfect now. I remember when I used to be imperfect. Now all that condemnation and death is actually beautiful." The only thing I find beautiful about the law is that it brings me running back to my Saviour, each time, every time... sorry sorry I thought I was awesome for a minute, I didn't realize that it was all You...

The reason I quoted the context so one may see what the veil is about.
And regarding perfection - do we not all agree it's through Christ?

 

[Grandpa]

The reason I quoted the context so one may see what the veil is about.
And regarding perfection - do we not all agree it's through Christ?

Yes. It is through Christ. And Christ alone.

 

[Grandpa]

The way I see how the law protects me:
a. from doing wrong.
b. from putting to shame.
c. from sinning.
d. from scorn and contempt.
e. from worthless things.
f. from deceitful ways.
g. from hopelessness.
h. from bad judgments.
i. from wandering away.
j. from ignorance.
k. from fainting.
l. from perishing in affliction.
m. from death.
n. from foolishness.
o. from evil path.
p. from the ruling of sin.

c.f. Psalm 119

The law doesn't give you any power to do the good things or stop doing the bad things.

 

[danschance]

So are you endorsing that you cannot severe God unless you deny Christ? Or maybe you cannot serve Christ unless you deny God? I am only endorsing that in Christ you serve both, and all of what God has said from the beginning of time is relevant for today. Just because there is an Old and New Covenant doesn't make some of what God has ever said irrelevant. Does that make the law a threat? All I'm saying is that the law is relevant for us today for God's children as we are. Why do some fight that concept? I'm not advocating the physical aspects thereof. I never have done that. Why the presumptions?

I think you have badly misunderstood what I said. I never said to deny God or Christ and I never said or implied that.

Also I never said all of the Old Testament is obsolete. There are valid things in the OT for us today. Yet the ceremonial aspects of the Jewish law are fulfilled by Christ. That is why the curtain in the temple ripped in two. As Jesus died He said "It is finished" and then the curtain ripped. This is clear evidence that the old ways were fulfilled. The death of Christ removed the penalty for sin so we have no need to throw grace aside and obey laws which never saved a soul. Those who simply obey a single Jewish law that Christ fulfilled are literally jeopardizing their salvation according to Gal 5:4 and that is very serious.

 

[chubbena]

I have answered this so many times, Do you ever even listen ot the answer. Why do you keep asking the same questions?

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

So what law have we become dead to?? Was it not the law of Moses?

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

What Law were we delivered from SO THAT we have the ability to serve in the newness of the spirit. is it not the law of moses?

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

So what law is weak in the flesh (carnality) and caused God to send his son in the flesh? Was it not mosaic law?

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So what law does christ make an end of? Is it not mosaic law?

Galatians 3:10 [ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do

So what law brings us under a curse? Is it not mosaic law? And is it not WHY we need Christ to make us dead to the law, and alive to Christ?

Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

So what law was a tutur? Which we needed to lead us to Christ. And after we found Christ, the law was no longer needed? Was it not mosaic law?

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

So, Who is lead by the spirit. but the children of God. And what law are they no longer under? Is it not mosaic law?

Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

So there is NO LAW which shows us the fruit of the spirit is there. The mosaic law has no ability to show us the fruit of the spirit. there it is in black and white. or should I change the color so you can see more clearly?

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished (killed or destroyed) in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,

WHo abolished the law of commandments. And what law is this? Is this not mosaic law?

so quesition my friend.

Why do you want to take what Christ made dead in our lives, and make it alive again, What purpose would it serve to make alive that which can only condemn us??

Guess I would ignore you too because you ignored my questions, cut the scriptures into pieces to fit into your argument which is not. Until you answer with an answer.

 

[CWJ]

The way I see how the law protects me:
a. from doing wrong.
b. from putting to shame.
c. from sinning.
d. from scorn and contempt.
e. from worthless things.
f. from deceitful ways.
g. from hopelessness.
h. from bad judgments.
i. from wandering away.
j. from ignorance.
k. from fainting.
l. from perishing in affliction.
m. from death.
n. from foolishness.
o. from evil path.
p. from the ruling of sin.

c.f. Psalm 119

Hi Chubbena

'Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of,
knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2 Timothy 3:12)

The Bible in it's entirety is called 'The Sword of the Spirit', isn't it? He uses it for our good, correcting us, and convicting us, encouraging and strengthening us. The first five books of the Bible is called, 'The Law', not just those given at Sinai.

All Scripture is for us, for our learning and teaching in righteousness, but not all is about us. We have to rightly divide it (2 Timothy 2:15), in order to ensure that our walk or manner of life reflects the fact that we have been born from above.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jag1977]

and the 21st letter of the Hebrew language is "Sin" shaped like the lower left and right ventricles of a human heart.

 

[Zinzerio]

The reason I quoted the context so one may see what the veil is about.
And regarding perfection - do we not all agree it's through Christ?

Hi i feel there is only one answers to the title of this thread and befor you can state what the op of this thread has stated i belief one must ask why the law was written on hearts first. (yes) (no) I think yes but granted the law can be talked about in the wrong way.

hmm I THINK ILL START A NEW THREAD why did God write the law on our heart. remember the scripture i showed you where God was saddened ? This truth is clear when two people comes together in agreement in Gods name the Lord is present.
still its a shame some people do some don't or some do not want to maybe its a case of i don't want you people talking about Gods word with each other or maybe they don't like the truth or coming to an agreement maybe they just think they know it all ?who knows . remember the scripture wake up sleepers. and bind thees words to your heart. (prayer) ask and it will be given seek and it shall be found, amen

to the op can i ask in what way did you mean the title of this thread ?

 

[chubbena]

Hi Chubbena

'Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of,
knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures,
which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2 Timothy 3:12)

The Bible in it's entirety is called 'The Sword of the Spirit', isn't it? He uses it for our good, correcting us, and convicting us, encouraging and strengthening us. The first five books of the Bible is called, 'The Law', not just those given at Sinai.

All Scripture is for us, for our learning and teaching in righteousness, but not all is about us. We have to rightly divide it (2 Timothy 2:15), in order to ensure that our walk or manner of life reflects the fact that we have been born from above.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Indeed, to turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus is the whole council of God. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[chubbena]

Hi i feel there is only one answers to the title of this thread and befor you can state what the op of this thread has stated i belief one must ask why the law was written on hearts first. (yes) (no) I think yes but granted the law can be talked about in the wrong way.

hmm I THINK ILL START A NEW THREAD why did God write the law on our heart. remember the scripture i showed you where God was saddened ? This truth is clear when two people comes together in agreement in Gods name the Lord is present.
still its a shame some people do some don't or some do not want to maybe its a case of i don't want you people talking about Gods word with each other or maybe they don't like the truth or coming to an agreement maybe they just think they know it all ?who knows . remember the scripture wake up sleepers. and bind thees words to your heart. (prayer) ask and it will be given seek and it shall be found, amen

to the op can i ask in what way did you mean the title of this thread ?

I do remember what you've said on the other thread and yes I think it would be interesting to start that new thread