THAT WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF CHRIST SHALL BE SAVED."
- Thread starter Apostol2013
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dude is a universal term.
I'm miserable, arrogant and a loudmouth, because you took a shot at me and I didn't smile and say thank you?
Narcissist much?
C
cfultz3
Guest
Plato's Symposium breakdown: Sympos
In that symposium, he did say Love was the eldest god and that god was named Eros, not Agape. If that god was being spoken about, then "eros" is the sort of love being spoken about. By your definition of agape, can a god be "rape". That sounds more like a demon. However, it is said that God is (to be, to exist) Agape.
Eros= erotic, physical attraction.
Agape = love of esteem, love from the mind, not hormones.
um....no.....i've just been reading your posts
love zone
So, you lash out at me. I don't take it, and that sets you off.
Sizter, it's not like you don't make sniper shots at people all through the threads and then run and hide without engaging. If you want to sit at the adult table, then come with exegesis, analysis, and real arguments, not snide comments that you pout when called out on.
I want to discuss what the scripture says. Most want to try to force their opinions on others. All I want to do is keep to the scripture and work through it to the best conclusion I can.
I also try to keep the arguments honest, and on target.
You can partake and be in the boat, or sit outside and splash at it.
It's your pick. I have no beef with you. I deserve shots at me sometimes. I'll absorb them for what they are. But, in this particular chat, you are delirious and not with both feet in reality.
C
cfultz3
Guest
I have heard of quick set concrete.
I have heard of the name brands Quikrete Concrete, Concrete Quick.
I never heard of making alive (quickening) concrete.
Just how does concrete become alive when it is dried?
C
cfultz3
Guest
How can anyone talk Scripture with you when you continuously change meanings of words.
You said Plato used agape as rape, when Plato used "eros" to describe sensual "lustiness".
You basically said "quicken" can mean "to set fast" and used quick setting concrete to redefine something which was spoken Scripturally. How will God set fast one of His children.....do we become alive when we are quickened?
i haven't taken part in this particular chat to the best of my knowledge
i just posted my impression of your writing in general. and a suggestion for you.
do what you want with it
lol dear. i don't run and hide.
is this the adult table?
lemme pull up a chair and see what you have to say.
i'll skim through the misery and stuff.
C
cfultz3
Guest
how is being gay the same as happy?
How is the word "faggot" a derogatory term in the US and a cigarette in the UK?
They have common aspects of the word, applied different ways.
If a man is sanctified and goes to happen, when the ark that held the covenant was sanctified was that wood going to heaven? How about the candles???
The maturation of the person's relationship with Christ was quickened to maturity. At the point the quickening was done, they were perfect/telioo/mature.
WHEN that happens is where the debate is.
But you guys just take a word and pretend it was invented for ENGLISH CHRISTIANITY.
The words have a history, an etymological pathway back to it's roots. You forego all of that, and pretend whatever it means to you, whenever it means it to you, is what it should mean for the world. THUS you clutter the discussions by calling purple, blue, then griping that people won't accept blue as purple.
You have issues. I say that for this reason, you are so hell bent on not having to change anything you say and admitting to fault or correction, you argue pedantics IF you argue and not just ignore, at all. To get you to step off the soapbox and come to the adult table and stop ranting and preaching AT THE WORLD but instead, talk WITH us is a challenge.
I'm tired of you and your behavior. That isn't to say I think I have pristine behavior, but for the sake of conversation, I answer, to the best of my ability, anything laid against me in conversation, and I never just ignore something and continue to claim victory. I have had to make HUGE changes in my theology in the last fifteen years because I will have the conversations out. AND I WAS WRONG on some HUGE POINTS. But, I never would have learned it, if I refused to listen and engage as you have done. You are only sticking to it now because I've pulled your strings. I had to listen to their side, sit down, sometimes for months, and tear it apart, checking it out, trying to beat the reasoning, and when I find out I can't, I have learned it at a much deeper level than someone who has had a southern baptist preacher tell them what to believe so they won't go to hell all their lives..
When you ask me for something, and I give it to you, and you brush it aside, ignore it, or just not see it, and then rant on and on with something I've already addressed, then do it repeatedly, it has shown a non caring, disrespectful, think you are above everyone else narcissistic nature that is dang near impossible to talk WITH.
You've got to change a lot before I'll even try on a real basis.
There, you have my full, unbridled, completely transparent thoughts on all of our exchanges, do what you will with it. I don't care.
i haven't taken part in this particular chat to the best of my knowledge
i just posted my impression of your writing in general. and a suggestion for you.
do what you want with it
lol dear. i don't run and hide.
is this the adult table?
lemme pull up a chair and see what you have to say.
i'll skim through the misery and stuff.
whatever.
You've made your shots in another place.
I want a discussion on what the Bible teaches. That means you have a view, and I have a view, (whoever you are in this case, you or anyone else on here) and we need to put them together, and see what comes out the other side. That can only happen if someone isn't afraid of losing what they believed and changing.
I am not finding a lot of that, but then I find it in quality in some places as well.
You want to take pot shots at me, as you have others, then cry foul that I come back at you. That's comical. Ignore me. Since I offend your delicate sensibilities, even though your pot shots seem to be ok, then simply don't see a word I say. Make both our lives better.
Have a charming rest of the weekend.
are you deliberately lying or just that slow?
You take a word in context and declare the context the definition for it's use in all of history. Don't talk to me about changing meanings.
I never said Plato used Agape as rape. You asked for anyplace it had other uses in Greek and I gave you where to go. I have another idea for where you can go now as well.
And your last question, I answered in my original comment. So here's the deal.
This was my last try.
You are abusing my time with your evasion and deliberately ignoring the conversation to try to twist it as if I wouldn't notice.
You can go play with the cows now.
You have proven to be a manipulative narcissistic nightmare. YOu tried to manipulate from "show me other uses of agape in greek" to "show me plato using greek as rape." that happened within twenty minutes. You can't be that slow, that had to be deliberate.
I'm done with you. You have no intellectual honesty.
C
cfultz3
Guest
TannarDarr, (me = red)
]how is being gay the same as happy? (it first meant happy, but was borrowed so that it would be less of a sting for being mocked because of one's sexuality. Should we then redefine Christian meaning of "quickening" to "to set fast". If so, then the Spirit makes dry fast the children of God. I hope we do not become immobilized as Christians.)
How is the word "faggot" a derogatory term in the US and a cigarette in the UK? (Which language do you wish to use in defining words. Still having a terrible time trying to find in ancient Greek where even Plato used agape and not eros, since he spoke of the god of love = eros)
They have common aspects of the word, applied different ways. (Are we not talking about God? How then can God be defined by a word which could be defined as rape. You said Plato used agape to define sexual lust/attraction although he used eros (erotic)). Do you still stand upon this mis-statement?
If a man is sanctified and goes to happen, when the ark that held the covenant was sanctified was that wood going to heaven? How about the candles??? (things are made holy so that they can be used in service for God, but salvation is not offered to object, but to humans. One/a thing does not go to Heaven because they are made holy. But nevertheless, a person through faith is made holy and goes to Heaven because of faith. Jesus said: the One who sanctifying and those who are being sanctified are one. It does not say that since you/ a thing is holy, you will go to Heaven.)
The maturation of the person's relationship with Christ was quickened to maturity. (the aging of one's relationship with Christ was made-alive to full-age? Makes no sense, sorry. Unless, you mean: the aging of one's relationship with Christ was quick-dried to full-age? Still does not....)
At the point the quickening was done, they were perfect/telioo/mature. (If only those who are matured in their relationship with Christ are quickened, then do those who never fully mature in that relationship before their death, go to Hades? Although, it says that they who are led by the Spirit are the children of God? Are you saying that if one is not matured, then they do not get the Spirit?)
WHEN that happens is where the debate is. (Not too debatable: Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. )
But you guys just take a word and pretend it was invented for ENGLISH CHRISTIANITY. (and you say words mean this and that and no evidence can be found to prove it.)
The words have a history, an etymological pathway back to it's roots. You forego all of that, and pretend whatever it means to you, whenever it means it to you, is what it should mean for the world. THUS you clutter the discussions by calling purple, blue, then griping that people won't accept blue as purple. (No hardly. I went and searched the Greek roots and saw nothing of what you redefined the words to be. Still waiting for ancient Greek examples of where agape is rape and quickening means whatever it is that you want it mean. Still waiting.)
You have issues. I say that for this reason, you are so hell bent on not having to change anything you say and admitting to fault or correction, you argue pedantics IF you argue and not just ignore, at all. To get you to step off the soapbox and come to the adult table and stop ranting and preaching AT THE WORLD but instead, talk WITH us is a challenge. (But, you have not proven anything. But, I have searched for any evidence of what you say and told you that I cannot find evidence and still I wait for examples. You are changing word meanings not me. So prove me wrong, PLEASE)
I'm tired of you and your behavior. That isn't to say I think I have pristine behavior, but for the sake of conversation, I answer, to the best of my ability, anything laid against me in conversation, and I never just ignore something and continue to claim victory. I have had to make HUGE changes in my theology in the last fifteen years because I will have the conversations out. AND I WAS WRONG on some HUGE POINTS. But, I never would have learned it, if I refused to listen and engage as you have done. You are only sticking to it now because I've pulled your strings. I had to listen to their side, sit down, sometimes for months, and tear it apart, checking it out, trying to beat the reasoning, and when I find out I can't, I have learned it at a much deeper level than someone who has had a southern baptist preacher tell them what to believe so they won't go to hell all their lives.. (Examples please)
When you ask me for something, and I give it to you, and you brush it aside, ignore it, or just not see it, and then rant on and on with something I've already addressed, then do it repeatedly, it has shown a non caring, disrespectful, think you are above everyone else narcissistic nature that is dang near impossible to talk WITH. (Plato used EROS, not Agape. Scripture used ABASE not AGAPE to mean rape. I continue because you say you proved yourself, but have not. Examples please)
You've got to change a lot before I'll even try on a real basis. (Would you like for me to just take your word for what you say?)
There, you have my full, unbridled, completely transparent thoughts on all of our exchanges, do what you will with it. I don't care.
]how is being gay the same as happy? (it first meant happy, but was borrowed so that it would be less of a sting for being mocked because of one's sexuality. Should we then redefine Christian meaning of "quickening" to "to set fast". If so, then the Spirit makes dry fast the children of God. I hope we do not become immobilized as Christians.)
How is the word "faggot" a derogatory term in the US and a cigarette in the UK? (Which language do you wish to use in defining words. Still having a terrible time trying to find in ancient Greek where even Plato used agape and not eros, since he spoke of the god of love = eros)
They have common aspects of the word, applied different ways. (Are we not talking about God? How then can God be defined by a word which could be defined as rape. You said Plato used agape to define sexual lust/attraction although he used eros (erotic)). Do you still stand upon this mis-statement?
If a man is sanctified and goes to happen, when the ark that held the covenant was sanctified was that wood going to heaven? How about the candles??? (things are made holy so that they can be used in service for God, but salvation is not offered to object, but to humans. One/a thing does not go to Heaven because they are made holy. But nevertheless, a person through faith is made holy and goes to Heaven because of faith. Jesus said: the One who sanctifying and those who are being sanctified are one. It does not say that since you/ a thing is holy, you will go to Heaven.)
The maturation of the person's relationship with Christ was quickened to maturity. (the aging of one's relationship with Christ was made-alive to full-age? Makes no sense, sorry. Unless, you mean: the aging of one's relationship with Christ was quick-dried to full-age? Still does not....)
At the point the quickening was done, they were perfect/telioo/mature. (If only those who are matured in their relationship with Christ are quickened, then do those who never fully mature in that relationship before their death, go to Hades? Although, it says that they who are led by the Spirit are the children of God? Are you saying that if one is not matured, then they do not get the Spirit?)
WHEN that happens is where the debate is. (Not too debatable: Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. )
But you guys just take a word and pretend it was invented for ENGLISH CHRISTIANITY. (and you say words mean this and that and no evidence can be found to prove it.)
The words have a history, an etymological pathway back to it's roots. You forego all of that, and pretend whatever it means to you, whenever it means it to you, is what it should mean for the world. THUS you clutter the discussions by calling purple, blue, then griping that people won't accept blue as purple. (No hardly. I went and searched the Greek roots and saw nothing of what you redefined the words to be. Still waiting for ancient Greek examples of where agape is rape and quickening means whatever it is that you want it mean. Still waiting.)
You have issues. I say that for this reason, you are so hell bent on not having to change anything you say and admitting to fault or correction, you argue pedantics IF you argue and not just ignore, at all. To get you to step off the soapbox and come to the adult table and stop ranting and preaching AT THE WORLD but instead, talk WITH us is a challenge. (But, you have not proven anything. But, I have searched for any evidence of what you say and told you that I cannot find evidence and still I wait for examples. You are changing word meanings not me. So prove me wrong, PLEASE)
I'm tired of you and your behavior. That isn't to say I think I have pristine behavior, but for the sake of conversation, I answer, to the best of my ability, anything laid against me in conversation, and I never just ignore something and continue to claim victory. I have had to make HUGE changes in my theology in the last fifteen years because I will have the conversations out. AND I WAS WRONG on some HUGE POINTS. But, I never would have learned it, if I refused to listen and engage as you have done. You are only sticking to it now because I've pulled your strings. I had to listen to their side, sit down, sometimes for months, and tear it apart, checking it out, trying to beat the reasoning, and when I find out I can't, I have learned it at a much deeper level than someone who has had a southern baptist preacher tell them what to believe so they won't go to hell all their lives.. (Examples please)
When you ask me for something, and I give it to you, and you brush it aside, ignore it, or just not see it, and then rant on and on with something I've already addressed, then do it repeatedly, it has shown a non caring, disrespectful, think you are above everyone else narcissistic nature that is dang near impossible to talk WITH. (Plato used EROS, not Agape. Scripture used ABASE not AGAPE to mean rape. I continue because you say you proved yourself, but have not. Examples please)
You've got to change a lot before I'll even try on a real basis. (Would you like for me to just take your word for what you say?)
There, you have my full, unbridled, completely transparent thoughts on all of our exchanges, do what you will with it. I don't care.
C
cfultz3
Guest
If I asked you if there was any place where "agape" is used differently then what I was defining it and you pointed me to Plato, then I can only assume that you believe that he used agape to mean what he was talking about. Otherwise, you would not had pointed me to him. Why would you point me to him in a search of the meaning of agape then?
Plato was speaking about the love god Eros. Eros= physical/sensual attraction. Where we get the word erotic.
It has always been understood by many that quickened means given life, just as quick means alive.. "The quick and the dead."
As for Greek and Hebrew, although much has been written in both, much has also been lost over the centuries. Using modern definitions for millennial words is a very tricky business.
Anyone who knows much Hebrew knows many of the words' definitions have been lost in the tides of intellect, ebbing here and washing out there.
No definitions alone will ever replace the Holy Spirit's instruction to each of us.
As for Greek and Hebrew, although much has been written in both, much has also been lost over the centuries. Using modern definitions for millennial words is a very tricky business.
Anyone who knows much Hebrew knows many of the words' definitions have been lost in the tides of intellect, ebbing here and washing out there.
No definitions alone will ever replace the Holy Spirit's instruction to each of us.
Yes judge but to the righteous judgement to the edifying : 15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. note note
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. note that the lord is placing judgement for edifications the term do not judge means do not condemm
16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. note that the lord is placing judgement for edifications the term do not judge means do not condemm
Ps 80:18
18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
The only way man can call upon the Name of the Lord is after he has been quickened or made alive or made to Live !
When a person is made alive, they have been saved from death. Life overcomes death. All for whom Christ died, on their behalf He has abolished death for them 2 Tim 1:9-10
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
You see that ? He is a Saviour to us if He has for us abolished death !
That word abolished is the word katargeō:
to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
So all for whom He died He has saved from spiritual death and its influences. This comes from giving them Life, amking them alive from death.
So calling upon the Name of the Lord is an consequence of being made alive, because Christ has for you abolished death by His death for you.
18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
The only way man can call upon the Name of the Lord is after he has been quickened or made alive or made to Live !
When a person is made alive, they have been saved from death. Life overcomes death. All for whom Christ died, on their behalf He has abolished death for them 2 Tim 1:9-10
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
You see that ? He is a Saviour to us if He has for us abolished death !
That word abolished is the word katargeō:
to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
So all for whom He died He has saved from spiritual death and its influences. This comes from giving them Life, amking them alive from death.
So calling upon the Name of the Lord is an consequence of being made alive, because Christ has for you abolished death by His death for you.