The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

[John146]

I love my brother KJV but Christ's resurrection was NOT the second coming. He didn't get resurrected with angels and armies from heaven. NT writers like Paul who wrote after the resurrection of Christ was still looking for it as he told the Thessalonians and others how to live so as not to be caught as those who walked in darkness. There was an actual second coming of Christ's presence and it began in 66 AD and continued until at least 70 AD.

Yes, one would have to spiritualize entire passages instead of the literal, clear meaning.

 

[KJV1611]

@TheDivineWatermark

(Mat 26:62) And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
(Mat 26:63) But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
(Mat 26:64) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Would this be another proleptic you?

 

[John146]

I've found two comings in the bible. One is the SECOND coming which happened at the resurrection and the other one is when Jesus comes into a believers life - When the Day Star arises in our hearts.

(2Pe 1:19) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

That coming in 2 Peter is the same coming as 2 Thessalonians 2.

(2Th 2:1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(2Th 2:2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

That coming ^ will not happen until this happens:

(2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The man of sin is OUR OWN FLESH. When he is crucified, then the Day Star can arise in our hearts.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 matches up with Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

One day, everyone in Christ (those who have died and those who are alive and remain at His coming) will be gathered together with Him.

 

[John146]

It's recorded in history right here:

Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

(Joh 19:37) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Per John and in harmony with all other scripture, those who pierced him LOOKED ON HIM when he "cometh with clouds".

Not rocket science man, just believe the words of that bible!

Yes, but this is yet future at His coming. This has not happened yet.

 

[KJV1611]

I love my brother KJV but Christ's resurrection was NOT the second coming. He didn't get resurrected with angels and armies from heaven. NT writers like Paul who wrote after the resurrection of Christ was still looking for it as he told the Thessalonians and others how to live so as not to be caught as those who walked in darkness. There was an actual second coming of Christ's presence and it began in 66 AD and continued until at least 70 AD.

I love you too man!

The New Testament writers that wrote after the resurrection of Christ were STILL LOOKING FOR IT because the resurrection never ends. Believers in Christ never die, they are translated directly from here straight into heaven.

You are like Hymenaeus and Philetus not understanding the resurrection. Those guys KNEW that the resurrection of the Old Testament saints was the resurrection BUT what they failed to understand was that it HAD NOT PASSED, it is perpetual. We are resurrected the moment we give our lives to Christ and we never die... that is the resurrection.

 

[KJV1611]

2 Thessalonians 2:1 matches up with Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

One day, everyone in Christ (those who have died and those who are alive and remain at His coming) will be gathered together with Him.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Where do you think the Old Testament saints were? They were in the OLD HEAVEN - Abraham's bosom. Christ gathered the things which were in the OLD HEAVEN (Old Testament Saints who died IN CHRIST) and the things which are on the earth (those who are ALIVE AND REMAIN) into one - the NEW HEAVEN.

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, but this is yet future at His coming. This has not happened yet.

John said it happened,. John said Zechariah 12:10 was FULFILLED at the cross.

Zec_12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is heaven, where all believers go when they die. "descending out of heaven" = "making heaven available to those on earth."

The size of the city, about 1,500 cubic miles cannot be on this planet. A building that tall cannot be made out of the materials mentioned or any known material as the weight would crush the base. The earth's atmosphere is about 300 miles up, this thing would extend 1,200 miles beyond that ripping a giant gash in the ozone layer killing everyone alive. Imagine this thing whipping around at 1,000+ miles an hour with 80% of it sticking out into space. Or more likely, the atmosphere would heat the structure up beyond its melting point. Any structural engineer would tell you a building of this size is impossible under our laws of physics thus it cannot be located in our physical realm.

If you note, the kings of the earth and the nations which are saved shall walk by the light of Heaven (God and Jesus) and they continue to bring their glory and honor into it. Since there is no sun or moon, this isn't our earth. God is light thus we don't need the sun anymore. Only those in the Lamb's book enter. The Lamb's book is opened when? It is open as each of us is judged to see if we are found and may enter. We are judged upon our death.

(Full Preterism) is 100% Heresy

 

[Dan_473]

Consider the following things (I've mentioned before), when considering the context of Matthew 10:23:

--the "ye/you" is a "proleptic 'ye/you'" (meaning, basically, "all those in the future, of the same category"); and

--all "Son of man cometh/coming of/shall come/be come/[etc]" refers to His Second Coming to the earth (to judge and to reign), and that which pertains to [is surrounding] that


...and this is just for starters.

I could see that as a possible interpretation.

sounds kind of strange, though, because in the context, Jesus is addressing this to the 12.

but then again, maybe the gospels sometimes mash sayings of Jesus together.

in your view, has this happened yet
"Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel"?

 

[Truth7t7]

This is heaven, where all believers go when they die. "descending out of heaven" = "making heaven available to those on earth."

The size of the city, about 1,500 cubic miles cannot be on this planet. A building that tall cannot be made out of the materials mentioned or any known material as the weight would crush the base. The earth's atmosphere is about 300 miles up, this thing would extend 1,200 miles beyond that ripping a giant gash in the ozone layer killing everyone alive. Imagine this thing whipping around at 1,000+ miles an hour with 80% of it sticking out into space. Or more likely, the atmosphere would heat the structure up beyond its melting point. Any structural engineer would tell you a building of this size is impossible under our laws of physics thus it cannot be located in our physical realm.

If you note, the kings of the earth and the nations which are saved shall walk by the light of Heaven (God and Jesus) and they continue to bring their glory and honor into it. Since there is no sun or moon, this isn't our earth. God is light thus we don't need the sun anymore. Only those in the Lamb's book enter. The Lamb's book is opened when? It is open as each of us is judged to see if we are found and may enter. We are judged upon our death.

(Full Preterism) that denies the biblical truth below is 100% Heresy!

Eternity will be spent in the (New Jerusalem) in the New Heavens and Earth as seen in Revelation 21 streets of Gold, Pearl gates,

"Behold I Make All Things New"!

This existing earth is "Dissolved" by the Lords fire at his return.

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement

Immediately after the tribulation, as the resurrection of all takes place, as the living believers are raptured/caught up, as this existing earth is "DISSOLVED" by the Lords fire in final judgement, as the New Heavens, Earth, And Jerusalem are revealed for eternity, all in the twinkling of an eye.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[biker]

It's much more than that. The Temple was the symbol of God's place with His people in Jerusalem to the whole world. For 2,000 years God was known as, "The God of the Jews." Sure, the falling of the temple made it impossible for surviving Jews to fully keep the Law but it was also a sign to the whole world that God was the God of ALL!!! The falling of the temple was critically important for the Gentile world to gain acceptance and that through the new Church, and not Judaism, was the new way. Next to the Cross, the Falling of the Temple was likely the 2nd most important event in the past 2,000 years. The Law and Mosaic Age ended and the Church, or Messianic Age began. OUT WITH THE OLD, IN WITH THE NEW. Christ dwells with His church and is it's chief cornerstone and leader. He is the groom, we are His Bride. RIGHT NOW, not thousands of years later. His presence is with us today!!

We aren't waiting for some future kingdom in this physical age. The church exists in both our physical realm and in the spiritual realm (new heaven and earth) as many of its members have moved on into the spiritual. I am fine to agree to disagree but so long as you continue to quote and debate me, its on. Remember, I used to think as you did. All of your arguments and beliefs I once held, thus I know the inherent short comings of them. Debating a futurist is like child's play for me and I don't mean that to sound condescending. What I am trying to say is, "been there, done that." You have nothing new to teach me on this topic. I am actually trying to help you as the futurist view is so wrong, so negative, so retreating and escapist. It admits Christ was wrong about His return. It keeps saints in Hades for thousands of additional years or their disembodied souls waiting for their spiritual body like the Tin Man waiting for a new heart. It has our old corrupted flesh bodies making up part of our new spiritual body in clear violation of Paul's teaching.

The Preterist view declares that Jesus was correct in the timing of His return. Hades (DEATH) has been defeated. No longer are we separate from God when we die, rather, we are immediately in heaven whereby we get the Body (Reward) that we deserve. Absent from the body, COMPLETELY (not partially) present with the Lord. I am not looking for some rapture to spare me from death as I accept what the writer of Hebrews said, "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." I'm much happier on my side of the fence than when I was on your side. No more fears of some great tribulation, wondering if the rapture would be pre, mid or post. I used to plan stockpiling food in living out in the woods so that I could survive the boogeyman AntiChrist. Now I don't worry about a thing. It's all in God's hands and when I die, I will be with Him wholly, not split up into my three basic parts, body, soul, spirit. I'm passionate about this because when I see so much of the Church continue to believe the way they do forced to twist and distort and live in fear, it saddens me and I would like to help show the correct, and far better way. My way has been correct for nearly 2,000 years and counting. I don't set dates then look like the fool like many on your side. But, God bless you brother, we are all still God's children and citizens of heaven.

Personally, If Christ returned, I see no reason why life continued onward almost 2,000 years now. If the Bible has been fulfilled, then it should no longer matter to humanity, for we all should be doomed now. I don't mind these idealisms, but there is no common sense value to them. And because of that, I do not believe in Preterism.

 

[John146]

Where do you think the Old Testament saints were? They were in the OLD HEAVEN - Abraham's bosom.

Old heaven? Scripture please? Abraham’s bosom was also known as paradise which is now located in the third heaven.

 

[KJV1611]

Old heaven? Scripture please? Abraham’s bosom was also known as paradise which is now located in the third heaven.

Righteous Old Testament people went to Abraham's bosom when they died, that was their heaven UNTIL Jesus came and prepared the NEW HEAVEN.

 

[KJV1611]

Old heaven? Scripture please? Abraham’s bosom was also known as paradise which is now located in the third heaven.

I forgot to add this... Why would you think PARADISE isn't heaven?

 

[John146]

Righteous Old Testament people went to Abraham's bosom when they died, that was their heaven UNTIL Jesus came and prepared the NEW HEAVEN.

Yes, but to call it heaven is adding to Scripture. I'm not willing to do that.

 

[John146]

I forgot to add this... Why would you think PARADISE isn't heaven?

Paradise is in heaven now. The Lord translated it from the heart of the earth to the third heaven when He set the captives free.

 

[John146]

I forgot to add this... Why would you think PARADISE isn't heaven?

The Lord told the thief on the cross that this day he would be with him in paradise, and yet, the Lord didn't go to the third heaven until the third day. Where did the thief go? Paradise, aka, Abraham's bosom just like any OT saint until the resurrection on the third day.

 

[KJV1611]

Personally, If Christ returned, I see no reason why life continued onward almost 2,000 years now. If the Bible has been fulfilled, then it should no longer matter to humanity, for we all should be doomed now. I don't mind these idealisms, but there is no common sense value to them. And because of that, I do not believe in Preterism.

What’s your take on this verse?

Isa 45:17 (KJV) But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

 

[biker]

What’s your take on this verse?

Isa 45:17 (KJV) But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

I believe it is speaking of the Messiah and what He will accomplish.

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, but to call it heaven is adding to Scripture. I'm not willing to do that.

Say what you want, but if it supported your dispensational view then paradise would be heaven. It is obvious to people that don't have angenda, that heaven and paradise are the same.

How strange that paradise and heaven aren't the same to you but this generation doesn't mean this generation.