The Antichrist, is a part of the big delusion.

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crossnote said:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
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And the way that is worded with the word (that) points to a particular individual that shall be identified as the MAN OF SIN.......it is obvious that it is a particular individual.....Satan has his mimics and he want to MIMIC Christ and be worshipped in a MAN jus as JESUS is both the Son of man and the Son of God....LORD, Christ and God
 
dcontroversal said:
No offence but that does not jive with scripture......the devil is not defeated until the end of the age (completely) and then the final victory takes place at the end of the age when the last enemy shall be defeated which is death.......!

The definite article (the) points to what is known and is applied unto the MAN (singular) of SIN, THE (singular) BEAST and THE (singular) little horn......you can slice and dice all you want...at the end of the day the devil has been attempting to bring about himself worshipped in a MAN from the beginning (continually hindered by God as it was not yet time) and it will come to fruition and culminate at the end of the age when a MAN is possessed and taken over by the devil after a HEAD SHOT...HE WILL stand again and be worshipped as GOD just as the kings of the empires were that ruled over the Middle East and had dominion over the Middle East starting with Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and what Rome culminates in which is the 10 horned beast of Revelation. The beast/little horn AKA anti-Christ (so called) will subdue three of the 10 horns unto himself, take control of the 10 horned beast and will establish the 8th and final kingdom that will exercise dominion over the Middle East which will be the 8th and final Kingdom, of the which Christ overthrows at his coming....

Why do you suppose Satan disputed over the body of Moses in Jude? Because he CAN possess and he will possess the body of who ever the MAN of SIN will be!
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So the scriptures I quoted don't jive with scripture? LOL Better than the scriptures you did not quote. LOL Like a "HEAD SHOT"???? Sorry, that's not what the scriptures say, stick with scripture. Note, wound is by a sword.

Revelation 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God. :)


Also the "man of sin" speaks of a whole wicked generation, not a single man yet to come in the future, here's proof.

We are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” The falling away mentioned here by Paul has to do with the saints of God being overcome by the lies and deception of the Devil, and by his spirit, which is the spirit of a lie. This spirit of a lie is also shown as the false prophet spirit which works in many (many deceivers.)

Paul was playing off the words of Jesus when he referred to “that man” and “son of perdition” in the above verse. But this is not to be misunderstood as a single individual man yet to come in the future, but rather it speaks of the sin nature of man being raised back up again in the world, and also in the man-made church system. This is symbolized in the book of Revelation as the beast that comes up out of the bottomless pit, that was dead, but is being made alive again in the hearts and minds of many.

Notice how Jesus refers to a whole wicked generation as “a man” and “ that man” (like Paul said) here in Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

Now notice the wording Jesus used showing the “last state of that man” compared to Peters concerning this same falling away in 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

This being overcome is shown here in Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” So this spirit of deception and lies would also overcome the saints as is also confirmed here in Daniel 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” That horn is the tail of the red Dragon, which speaks of the spirit of a lie working in all the world to practice and prosper and cast the truth and some of the host to the ground.

So was Paul talking about a single man, or a whole wicked generation like Jesus said? Well if you read the whole chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”


Clearly Paul was speaking of more than one single individual man.
 
dcontroversal said:
All wrong...try again......

The little horn/beast ALL make war with the saints and prevail against them for 3.5 years or 42 months or 1260 days ALL tied to the great tribulation of the end of the age......The rise of the MAN of SIN is tied to the apo-hystamie and the the END of the AGE...So...tell me...when did the 2nd Beast make the IMAGE of the 1st Beast and demand that all fall down and worship...when did they call down fire from heaven...when did they have everyone beheaded for refusal to take the mark? These things would be written in ROMAN history....they are NOT....

The 1st BEAST is the 12th IMAM of radicalized Islam, the GOD pushed and worshipped is ALLAH and the last POPE is the 2nd Beast/False Prophet......It all occurs at the end of the age yet future...albeit close at hand for sure!
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LOL well at least you have a vivid imagination.

The second beast is the continuation of evil empire towards the end of the age, probably arising from one part of the old Roman Empire, with that long since gone. He is only very indirectly connected with the first beast who was among other things a number of emperors. Whilst the first beast was the Roman empire. the second may well be an Islamic empire. We shall see. But they are only vaguely connected. There will not be a Great Tribulation which is not a Biblical concept. although there will certainly be tribulation of a kind in many parts of the world, as there is NOW..
 
valiant said:
LOL well at least you have a vivid imagination.

The second beast is the continuation of evil empire towards the end of the age, probably arising from one part of the old Roman Empire, with that long since gone. He is only very indirectly connected with the first beast who was among other things a number of emperors. Whilst the first beast was the Roman empire. the second may well be an Islamic empire. We shall see. But they are only vaguely connected. There will not be a Great Tribulation which is not a Biblical concept. although there will certainly be tribulation of a kind in many parts of the world, as there is NOW..
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HAH yea....Ok...believe what you will bro......I suggest Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, Daniel 12 and a few other books that speak great lengths to the great tribulation which will sweep the planet.....good luck!
 
dcontroversal said:
HAH yea....Ok...believe what you will bro......I suggest Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, Daniel 12 and a few other books that speak great lengths to the great tribulation which will sweep the planet.....good luck!
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The great tribulation in Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 refers to the tribulation on the Jews for crucifying Christ. It commenced in 70 AD, included the holocaust, and still goes on. Daniel 12 may be the same one commencing as it does after the death of Herod. You will have to try better LOL
 
valiant said:
The great tribulation in Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 refers to the tribulation on the Jews for crucifying Christ. It commenced in 70 AD, included the holocaust, and still goes on. Daniel 12 may be the same one commencing as it does after the death of Herod. You will have to try better LOL
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Give us a break. This is the Great Tribulation?
Next you'll say those are imposters acting like Jews over in Israel.
Tribulation now? choke.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” Clearly Paul was speaking of more than one single individual man.
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And this part here always reminded of the singular lying (spirit) which is likewise after (the working of) Satan but still send by God (as one) even him into the plural (prophets) in Kings, showing a singular spirit goes out to work in the many

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead?
And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?

And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.

And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets,
and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Shows similarly to this portion of scripture

2 Thes 2:9 [Even him] whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
 that they should believe a lie:

Whereas it does show so much (above in Kings)

And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets

The apostles only confirm the same thing shown before

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie

1Kings 22:23 Behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets

The cause as shown in Thess is

Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

So there is a singular lying spirit sent forth in Kings by God (to work a lie there) even as God (because they receive not a love for the truth) send one [even him] after the working of Satan (to believe a lie)

2Thes 2: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

But it does show him (one/singular) lying spirit which works in the many and shows the same singular /plural concept in Thes.

This is not my kind of conversation, I must really sit this out, but I can see the concept (when comparing)




 
Funny how those who like to spiritualize promises and prophecies out of the OT will also spiritualize the man of sin. Take this...

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Oops, I guess a spiritual beast and a spiritual false prophet just got thrown into a spiritual lake of fire burning with spiritual brimstone. IT'S ALL SPIRITUAL.! How convenient, what a cop out.
 
DesiredHaven said:


And this part here always reminded of the singular lying (spirit) which is likewise after (the working of) Satan but still send by God (as one) even him into the plural (prophets) in Kings, showing a singular spirit goes out to work in the many

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead?
And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?

And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.

And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets,
and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Shows similarly to this portion of scripture

2 Thes 2:9 [Even him] whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish;
because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
 that they should believe a lie:

Whereas it does show so much (above in Kings)

And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets

The apostles only confirm the same thing shown before

2Thes 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion,
that they should believe a lie

1Kings 22:23 Behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets

The cause as shown in Thess is

Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

So there is a singular lying spirit sent forth in Kings by God (to work a lie there) even as God (because they receive not a love for the truth) send one [even him] after the working of Satan (to believe a lie)

2Thes 2: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

But it does show him (one/singular) lying spirit which works in the many and shows the same singular /plural concept in Thes.

This is not my kind of conversation, I must really sit this out, but I can see the concept (when comparing)
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That's right, one spirit (spirit of a lie) working in many false prophets, aka many deceivers. And that is exactly what the scriptures show in the spirit of antichrist.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth notthat Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
So the scriptures I quoted don't jive with scripture? LOL Better than the scriptures you did not quote. LOL Like a "HEAD SHOT"???? Sorry, that's not what the scriptures say, stick with scripture. Note, wound is by a sword.

Revelation 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God. :)


Also the "man of sin" speaks of a whole wicked generation, not a single man yet to come in the future, here's proof.

We are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” The falling away mentioned here by Paul has to do with the saints of God being overcome by the lies and deception of the Devil, and by his spirit, which is the spirit of a lie. This spirit of a lie is also shown as the false prophet spirit which works in many (many deceivers.)

Paul was playing off the words of Jesus when he referred to “that man” and “son of perdition” in the above verse. But this is not to be misunderstood as a single individual man yet to come in the future, but rather it speaks of the sin nature of man being raised back up again in the world, and also in the man-made church system. This is symbolized in the book of Revelation as the beast that comes up out of the bottomless pit, that was dead, but is being made alive again in the hearts and minds of many.

Notice how Jesus refers to a whole wicked generation as “a man” and “ that man” (like Paul said) here in Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

Now notice the wording Jesus used showing the “last state of that man” compared to Peters concerning this same falling away in 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

This being overcome is shown here in Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” So this spirit of deception and lies would also overcome the saints as is also confirmed here in Daniel 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” That horn is the tail of the red Dragon, which speaks of the spirit of a lie working in all the world to practice and prosper and cast the truth and some of the host to the ground.

So was Paul talking about a single man, or a whole wicked generation like Jesus said? Well if you read the whole chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”


Clearly Paul was speaking of more than one single individual man.
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Clearly you do not understand the personal pronoun or statements like (HIM) and (That MAN) and how they both point to a SINGLE individual. And the wound is to ONE of HIS HEADS and the WOUND IS HEALED and all he world WONDERS about the beast (singular) and the HEAD WOUND that is HEALED.......look...you wont change my mind period....this has been my study for the last 26 years and it is obvious that the little horn, beast is an individual MAN empowered by Satan at the end of the age and he is identified as THE MAN (SINGULAR) of SIN....so good luck bro!
 
valiant said:
The great tribulation in Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 refers to the tribulation on the Jews for crucifying Christ. It commenced in 70 AD, included the holocaust, and still goes on. Daniel 12 may be the same one commencing as it does after the death of Herod. You will have to try better LOL
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Well it is a miracle that is has lasted almost 2000 years seeing how Daniel 12 clearly states that there is only 1335 days left to deal with Israel and 1260 0f that is the GREAT TRIBULATION and the time of Jacobs trouble and lest we forget JESUS is talking to his DISCIPLES which made up the 1st TRUE N.T. CHURCH........I suggest you read Daniel 12 and understand that MICHAEL stands to defend the children of Daniel's people and there is only 1335 days of the which 45 of that is WRATH directed at the enemies of Israel!
 
crossnote said:
Funny how those who like to spiritualize promises and prophecies out of the OT will also spiritualize the man of sin. Take this...

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Oops, I guess a spiritual beast and a spiritual false prophet just got thrown into a spiritual lake of fire burning with spiritual brimstone. IT'S ALL SPIRITUAL.! How convenient, what a cop out.
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I know it blows my mind...all of the scriptures that point to the fact that it is an individual empowered by Satan.....all of the personal pronouns and truth like above when the BEAST is individually taken with the false prophet and thrown into the lake of fire.......unbelievable!
 
most people seem to make the mistake of conflating several things in biblical prophecy into one...namely antichrist...'the beast'...the man of lawlessness...and the little horn...but they are not at all the same thing...

the bible never once suggests that there will be one final 'antichrist' in the end time...the only time 'the antichrist' is referred to in scripture is when john is dismissing a -rumor- in one of his letters...he makes it clear that there are -many- antichrists...and then he defines 'antichrist' as basically being a christological heretic...

'the beast' is not a person at all...beasts in scripture represent world empires...for example see the different beasts in daniel... the first beast in revelation represents the imperial state in general...the second beast represents imperial religion which is allied to the imperial state...the second beast is identical with 'babylon' who rides on the first beast...

the man of lawlessness is the only one in scripture that can correctly be identified as a single individual in the end time...but when he is described in scripture there is no mention of attempts at world domination or anything like what you see in a lot of eschatological scenarios...this man of lawlessness seems fully content with exalting himself through world religion and leaving the political ambition to others... most likely the man of lawlessness will be the leader of the second beast or 'false prophet' that represents imperial religion...

finally the little horn in daniel was a roman emperor who has already come and gone in history...namely vespasian...who attained the roman throne when three other 'horns'...namely nero's successors galba and otho and vitellius whose rapid successive falls left behind the power vacuum that vespasian filled...his last mocking words were 'i think i am becoming a god'... so the little horn is already in the past and not a part of the end time at all...
 
dcontroversal said:
I know it blows my mind...all of the scriptures that point to the fact that it is an individual empowered by Satan.....all of the personal pronouns and truth like above when the BEAST is individually taken with the false prophet and thrown into the lake of fire.......unbelievable!
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Lol....Hi DC,....Can I say somethin' to all the foolish in the world? ...Ummm....Naw, better not! ROFL :)

Cat-and-Mouse.jpg
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
'the beast' is not a person at all...beasts in scripture represent world empires...for example see the different beasts in daniel... the first beast in revelation represents the imperial state in general...the second beast represents imperial religion which is allied to the imperial state...the second beast is identical with 'babylon' who rides on the first beast...

the man of lawlessness is the only one in scripture that can correctly be identified as a single individual in the end time...but when he is described in scripture there is no mention of attempts at world domination or anything like what you see in a lot of eschatological scenarios...this man of lawlessness seems fully content with exalting himself through world religion and leaving the political ambition to others... most likely the man of lawlessness will be the leader of the second beast or 'false prophet' that represents imperial religion...

QUOTE]

You bet......keep believing that Rachel and I will add that the LITTEL HORN is Daniel's view and prophecy of the BEAST of Revelation....The MAN of SIN describes them both!

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
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