The Author and Date of The Book of Job

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Do we have a copy of that text, the Septuagint, or has it disappeared?

Dp you mean the original manuscripts, or English translations? There are many English translations available

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There are several, but are getting harder to find.
EVERYBODY needs to be informed of this. Why would you walk around
with a watch that is not set properly?

This video is not exactly correct. The Masoretic Text wasn't started until about 500 AD and wasn't completed until about 1000 AD. This video claims it was made in the 2nd century AD

 

[cv5]

This video is not exactly correct. The Masoretic Text wasn't started until about 500 AD and wasn't completed until about 1000 AD. This video claims it was made in the 2nd century AD

The point of the video is that Rabbi Akiva kicked off the Masoretic departure at this point in time.
The text proceeded from there. Mods were tweaked here and there no doubt.

But the schism occurred as the video declares.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The point of the video is that Rabbi Akiva kicked off the Masoretic departure at this point in time.
The text proceeded from there. Mods were tweaked here and there no doubt.

But the schism occurred as the video declares.

Oh OK that makes sense.

 

[tttallison]

There are several, but are getting harder to find.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/

EVERYBODY needs to be informed of this. Why would you walk around
with a watch that is not set properly?

The manuscript you are presenting here as the Septuagint is actually a very corrupt Vatican manuscript which was twice reinked, and the new letters that replaced the old were not the same, therefore rendering the manuscript worthless. In a margin of this manuscript a scribe wrote the words, "Fool and knave, leave the old reading and do not change it."

If you do the math in Genesis chapter five you will find the numbers for Methusaleh's dates are not correct. The numbers leave Methusaleh living fourteen years beyond the flood.

If you go to Isaiah 9:6, my favorite verse, you will find that the names of Jesus, "Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace" are missing.

You also will find in the forward to NETS, the "New English Translation of the Septuagint" by Oxford Press, that the Alexandrine manuscripts do not exhibit a uniformity allowing one to determine what the original Septuagint actually said. They also said they kept the term Septuagint due to the weight of tradition.

The Greek Orthodox Church denies that the Septuagint of today is what they had in the beginning. Their liturgy that they handed down from the beginning was not based on today's Septuagint, but rather the reading of the text found in the King James Bible.

The Isaiah Scroll from 200/300 BC follows the Masoretic Text and not the Vatican Septuagint. The Dead Sea Scrolls were carbon dated, but the Vatican scroll was not.

 

[cv5]

The manuscript you are presenting here as the Septuagint is actually a very corrupt Vatican manuscript which was twice reinked, and the new letters that replaced the old were not the same, therefore rendering the manuscript worthless. In a margin of this manuscript a scribe wrote the words, "Fool and knave, leave the old reading and do not change it."

If you do the math in Genesis chapter five you will find the numbers for Methusaleh's dates are not correct. The numbers leave Methusaleh living fourteen years beyond the flood.

If you go to Isaiah 9:6, my favorite verse, you will find that the names of Jesus, "Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace" are missing.

You also will find in the forward to NETS, the "New English Translation of the Septuagint" by Oxford Press, that the Alexandrine manuscripts do not exhibit a uniformity allowing one to determine what the original Septuagint actually said. They also said they kept the term Septuagint due to the weight of tradition.

The Greek Orthodox Church denies that the Septuagint of today is what they had in the beginning. Their liturgy that they handed down from the beginning was not based on today's Septuagint, but rather the reading of the text found in the King James Bible.

The Isaiah Scroll from 200/300 BC follows the Masoretic Text and not the Vatican Septuagint. The Dead Sea Scrolls were carbon dated, but the Vatican scroll was not.

Lol. Yes yes, there are variations some better some worse.

Please find a good one I just blasted that out there.
The point is that the DATES AND CHRONONLOGIES are the "LONG COUNT".
And the age of Job is specified at over 240 years.

There is the Alexandrian LXX (has errors also) which is my go-to for the most part.
Cannot find it right now.

But the thing is, in Pauls day, the LXX that he had available (and quoted from!) were NOT CORRUPTED,
and were actually translated from the old PROTO-HEBREW manuscripts back in 250-300BC -ish.

Unfortunately, today we have to use the various LXX's and cross check everything with the NT to find the errors.
And YES there are errors in these preserved AND CORRUPTED LXX's.

But I know where the errors are. Luck me huh?

 

[cv5]

The manuscript you are presenting here as the Septuagint is actually a very corrupt Vatican manuscript which was twice reinked, and the new letters that replaced the old were not the same, therefore rendering the manuscript worthless. In a margin of this manuscript a scribe wrote the words, "Fool and knave, leave the old reading and do not change it."

If you do the math in Genesis chapter five you will find the numbers for Methusaleh's dates are not correct. The numbers leave Methusaleh living fourteen years beyond the flood.

If you go to Isaiah 9:6, my favorite verse, you will find that the names of Jesus, "Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace" are missing.

You also will find in the forward to NETS, the "New English Translation of the Septuagint" by Oxford Press, that the Alexandrine manuscripts do not exhibit a uniformity allowing one to determine what the original Septuagint actually said. They also said they kept the term Septuagint due to the weight of tradition.

The Greek Orthodox Church denies that the Septuagint of today is what they had in the beginning. Their liturgy that they handed down from the beginning was not based on today's Septuagint, but rather the reading of the text found in the King James Bible.

The Isaiah Scroll from 200/300 BC follows the Masoretic Text and not the Vatican Septuagint. The Dead Sea Scrolls were carbon dated, but the Vatican scroll was not.

Here you go man. A nice tight synopsis of what happened, how it happened and when.

https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Septuagint_History.html

 

[tttallison]

Here you go man. A nice tight synopsis of what happened, how it happened and when.

https://www.barrysetterfield.org/Septuagint_History.html

When you copy and paste someone's video have you investigated it to see if what is said is actually true? I will endeavor to prove anything I post, one subject at a time. Sometimes I post my opinion and will attempt to present evidence to support it.

 

[cv5]

When you copy and paste someone's video have you investigated it to see if what is said is actually true? I will endeavor to prove anything I post, one subject at a time. Sometimes I post my opinion and will attempt to present evidence to support it.

It's up to you to prove. Not me.
I am only providing the raw materials.

If you don't agree so be it.
Me? I am certain of my understanding and that it is true and factual.

 

[SilverFox7]

It's up to you to prove. Not me.
I am only providing the raw materials.

If you don't agree so be it.
Me? I am certain of my understanding and that it is true and factual.

Great discussion, gentlemen.

Thanks for chiming back into this forum, brother. I always appreciate your insights and the resources you share.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The point of the video is that Rabbi Akiva kicked off the Masoretic departure at this point in time.
The text proceeded from there. Mods were tweaked here and there no doubt.

But the schism occurred as the video declares.

This brings back memories. From what I've read the MT was begun, but then was put aside until work on the Talmud was completed. Then work on the MT resumed and continued for about 500 years. I have that information buried somewhere. If I find it I'll post it

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

This brings back memories. From what I've read the MT was begun, but then was put aside until work on the Talmud was completed. Then work on the MT resumed and continued for about 500 years. I have that information buried somewhere. If I find it I'll post it

That didn't take long. Just had to remember where it was

The efforts of the scholars to fix the reading and understanding of the sacred text were overshadowed somewhat by the study of the Talmud. After the close of the Talmud the work was resumed and cultivated in Babylonia and Palestine (at Tiberias). In both schools the work of former generations was continued; but the Palestinians, who acted more independently than the more Talmudically inclined Babylonians, finally got the victory over the Babylonian school.
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol. 2, pg. 97, Bible Text

 

[SilverFox7]

“It's interesting that the Lord puts Job in the list of "righteous" people with Daniel and Noah”

doesn't that point sort of seal the deal showing us he was a real live muchacho ?

“though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭14:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


God is not commending a poem saying the poem could have delivered its own soul I’m convinced job was an actual amigo !!

of course then … “maybe Daniel is just a poem too and Noah Jesus maybe he’s just a creative writing ect ect there’s no end in the world to reasons why we shouldn’t believe the Bible to be true

From science to science fiction to logic and rational thought and evidence ect but blessed are they who hear and believe the gospel though they haven’t seen there’s proof but it’s not for the ones who choose the world it’s within the believer who hears and grabs hold of his word of promise and life given to all those in a sinking boat

I've always appreciated your down-to-earth postings, Pilgrim! This one put a smile on my face with your "muchacho" and "amigo" references. Job strikes me as a "simple man" like the two of us who are trying to muddle our way through this challenging life as best we can.

And, I think you're touching on an important point as we study God's Word, the Holy Bible: either we take God at His Word or we don't. That's one of the biggest problems I've seen with secular scholarship - they can't grasp the spiritual elements and draw upon the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and faith as we seek a deeper understanding of our relationship with God and His Word.

The evidence looks pretty convincing to me that Job lived around ~2500 B.C., which is before Abraham. I'm curious how Job's experiences were actually documented because writing was quite sparse to non-existent back then. A lot of these stories were passed down through oral tradition from generation-to-generation.

The idea of Moses actually compiling the original "documentation" for Job makes sense to me. I find it intriguing that Job doesn't appear in at least the original texts of the Old Testament until Ezekiel's time or shortly thereafter. I did a little reading about Ezekiel, and he was not only a prophet; he had a priestly background as well. I wonder if the original text for Job was in the library of texts that the priests were responsible for, and it didn't actually get published for a wider audience until the Babylonian exile/return to Palestine era for the Jews?

I suspect there was revision that took place to Job during that era where Persia and Greece were the powerhouses because that's when some of the great classical poetry, drama, and literature was produced. I haven't seen any convincing evidence to support this other than the fact that reading Job reminds me so much of reading the Iliad and Odyssey, for example.

The structure of a prologue and epilogue sandwiching in sophisticated drama, poetry, and prose was an art the Greeks in particular became masters at, and it has influenced our art and writing to the present day. I'm not saying this couldn't have been accomplished back in Job's day or even Moses' (with God all things are possible). But, I'm pretty certain that there was at least some level of revision inspired by the Holy Spirit back in that 300-600 B.C. to Job as we know it today.

The fact that it was canonized shows its authenticity in the Writings of the OT for sure! And, James gives Job credence and credibility in the NT as well. I absolutely love this book, one of my favorites in the Bible!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I've always appreciated your down-to-earth postings, Pilgrim! This one put a smile on my face with your "muchacho" and "amigo" references. Job strikes me as a "simple man" like the two of us who are trying to muddle our way through this challenging life as best we can.

And, I think you're touching on an important point as we study God's Word, the Holy Bible: either we take God at His Word or we don't. That's one of the biggest problems I've seen with secular scholarship - they can't grasp the spiritual elements and draw upon the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and faith as we seek a deeper understanding of our relationship with God and His Word.

The evidence looks pretty convincing to me that Job lived around ~2500 B.C., which is before Abraham. I'm curious how Job's experiences were actually documented because writing was quite sparse to non-existent back then. A lot of these stories were passed down through oral tradition from generation-to-generation.

The idea of Moses actually compiling the original "documentation" for Job makes sense to me. I find it intriguing that Job doesn't appear in at least the original texts of the Old Testament until Ezekiel's time or shortly thereafter. I did a little reading about Ezekiel, and he was not only a prophet; he had a priestly background as well. I wonder if the original text for Job was in the library of texts that the priests were responsible for, and it didn't actually get published for a wider audience until the Babylonian exile/return to Palestine era for the Jews?

I suspect there was revision that took place to Job during that era where Persia and Greece were the powerhouses because that's when some of the great classical poetry, drama, and literature was produced. I haven't seen any convincing evidence to support this other than the fact that reading Job reminds me so much of reading the Iliad and Odyssey, for example.

The structure of a prologue and epilogue sandwiching in sophisticated drama, poetry, and prose was an art the Greeks in particular became masters at, and it has influenced our art and writing to the present day. I'm not saying this couldn't have been accomplished back in Job's day or even Moses' (with God all things are possible). But, I'm pretty certain that there was at least some level of revision inspired by the Holy Spirit back in that 300-600 B.C. to Job as we know it today.

The fact that it was canonized shows its authenticity in the Writings of the OT for sure! And, James gives Job credence and credibility in the NT as well. I absolutely love this book, one of my favorites in the Bible!

Well said brother . I’m not too sure honestly who the author or what the date is . A lot of times we simply have no way to ever find a real solid and convincing answer on things like that.

We can just see in the Bible from the story the Bible lays out and then if we choose to we can go down the road of trying to figure out what exactly happened 2700 years ago or 5000 years ago

In the end I feel like as we take that route each person is going to find thier own information and form thier own opinion through reckoning and connecting dots


all I mean To say Is I feel like it’s better to learn what it teaches people about God and mankind . Whether the book of job or the Books of Moses or the prophets ect

so later when we meet him in the gospel the things he’s saying make sense
always a blessing bro