The Basics of Speaking in Tongues
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Hello dcontroversal;
Good point! There has to be a discernment of tongues in an open assembly. A Pastor I know once refuted someone in the congregation (about 300) for displaying exactly what you shared, and this hindered the flow of the spirit, the overplay part.
God bless you and your family.
Good point! There has to be a discernment of tongues in an open assembly. A Pastor I know once refuted someone in the congregation (about 300) for displaying exactly what you shared, and this hindered the flow of the spirit, the overplay part.
God bless you and your family.
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That is fine and I do believe it ceased with the completion of the word of God....I don't believe that.....Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word, not signs...........has supernaturally imparted knowledge continued, what about new prophetic utterances.........?
We have the mind of Christ, the completed word of God and all that we need in scriptures......the words cease, vanish and fail are clear, so are the words,"when that which is perfect is come"...the word perfect means complete, Jesus is not described as a "THAT" no where in scriptures and the implication is obvious....there is not one indication it means when JESUS comes and can be applied grammatically unto the word being completed......I have yet to see it done the way it was done in the bible, I have yet to hear one person when "explaining" what takes place in their church explain something similar to what took place in the bible and almost without exception it is women that are the ones doing it, without exception there are no "proof" that it is of or from God and everyone I know that has seen it has said it was some fleshly, ecstatic, emotionally charged experience where no discernible language was present.............and I will point out yet again.....THE ONLY church that had to be corrected was the spiritually immature Corinthian assembly....NO other church is given any instruction on it, no other church is corrected and or is it even mentioned in the church letters, and on top of that....PAUL said to COVET the best gifts with tongues "languages" not listed as the BEST yet almost to a T ALL boast and brag of this supposed gift while saying that those who do not buy it based upon the above evidences have no clue and do not understand the word.........
We have the mind of Christ, the completed word of God and all that we need in scriptures......the words cease, vanish and fail are clear, so are the words,"when that which is perfect is come"...the word perfect means complete, Jesus is not described as a "THAT" no where in scriptures and the implication is obvious....there is not one indication it means when JESUS comes and can be applied grammatically unto the word being completed......I have yet to see it done the way it was done in the bible, I have yet to hear one person when "explaining" what takes place in their church explain something similar to what took place in the bible and almost without exception it is women that are the ones doing it, without exception there are no "proof" that it is of or from God and everyone I know that has seen it has said it was some fleshly, ecstatic, emotionally charged experience where no discernible language was present.............and I will point out yet again.....THE ONLY church that had to be corrected was the spiritually immature Corinthian assembly....NO other church is given any instruction on it, no other church is corrected and or is it even mentioned in the church letters, and on top of that....PAUL said to COVET the best gifts with tongues "languages" not listed as the BEST yet almost to a T ALL boast and brag of this supposed gift while saying that those who do not buy it based upon the above evidences have no clue and do not understand the word.........
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There are two types of "tongue" experiences:
1. Upon the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost baptism each person will speak in tongues. (Acts 2:1-4, 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)
2. Spiritual gift of speaking in different tongues or interpretation of tongues for the edification of the church body. (1 Cor 12:1-11)
1. Upon the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost baptism each person will speak in tongues. (Acts 2:1-4, 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)
2. Spiritual gift of speaking in different tongues or interpretation of tongues for the edification of the church body. (1 Cor 12:1-11)
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Scripture does not lie: "and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; " This statement indicates God's children are protected in the event they unknowingly consume something harmful.
However, scripture records Jesus words after Satan told Him to do something harmful to Himself: Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7
So if some idiot chooses to consume something deadly thinking God is going to intervene he is sadly mistaken.
However, scripture records Jesus words after Satan told Him to do something harmful to Himself: Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7
So if some idiot chooses to consume something deadly thinking God is going to intervene he is sadly mistaken.
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@Wansvic –
I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
This would seem to me to support what I stated in my previous post regarding “praying in the spirit”. It’s how he is praying; not the words he’s saying.
@ Waggles –
No where does scripture teach that praying in the Spirit is about attitude or effort or emotion. No where! Praying in the Spirit is clearly and unequivocally described as NOT praying with understanding - that is NOT praying with our minds in our own language.
I’ll need to respectfully disagree. What you describe is the Pentecostal/Charismatic definition of the phrase.
@ Crossnote –
What kind of sign would that be, people speaking in their own language? We do that everyday.
The ‘sign’ to the Jews was that their God was now accessible to any person in the (known) world and (most importantly) in any language. A concept that was virtually unheard of at the time and for some, almost unthinkable.
I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
This would seem to me to support what I stated in my previous post regarding “praying in the spirit”. It’s how he is praying; not the words he’s saying.
@ Waggles –
No where does scripture teach that praying in the Spirit is about attitude or effort or emotion. No where! Praying in the Spirit is clearly and unequivocally described as NOT praying with understanding - that is NOT praying with our minds in our own language.
I’ll need to respectfully disagree. What you describe is the Pentecostal/Charismatic definition of the phrase.
@ Crossnote –
What kind of sign would that be, people speaking in their own language? We do that everyday.
The ‘sign’ to the Jews was that their God was now accessible to any person in the (known) world and (most importantly) in any language. A concept that was virtually unheard of at the time and for some, almost unthinkable.
Scripture always conveys truth and it says they spoke with other tongues, by the Holy Spirit. And in the church setting an individual speaks in an unknown tongue which is then interpreted for edification.
Just because an individual has not experienced it does not discount the fact that God gave this gift to His children for spiritual edification.
God says to ask Him for the gift of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
And Paul said pray that God bestow a spiritual gift(s) upon you so you can be used to help others in the church body.
Why there is such hostility toward receiving and exercising God's Spirit in order to help others is a mystery to me.
Just because an individual has not experienced it does not discount the fact that God gave this gift to His children for spiritual edification.
God says to ask Him for the gift of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
And Paul said pray that God bestow a spiritual gift(s) upon you so you can be used to help others in the church body.
Why there is such hostility toward receiving and exercising God's Spirit in order to help others is a mystery to me.
You have it backwards.
Believing takes place before any signs appear.
One believes the gospel, repents, gets water baptized in Jesus name (sometimes before, sometime after the Spirit baptism). Then one of three things happen; God pours out His Spirit upon the person, the person asks for the gift (Luke 11:13), or someone lays hands upon the person and the individual is miraculously filled to overflowing with the Spirit of God with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Believing takes place before any signs appear.
One believes the gospel, repents, gets water baptized in Jesus name (sometimes before, sometime after the Spirit baptism). Then one of three things happen; God pours out His Spirit upon the person, the person asks for the gift (Luke 11:13), or someone lays hands upon the person and the individual is miraculously filled to overflowing with the Spirit of God with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
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Again, tongues (speaking in other languages) are a sign to unbelievers. That truth has never been revoked as we still have unbelievers, and....
Romans 11:29 NKJV
[29] For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
I would like to see some Scripture indicating that that gift would cease when the Canon would be complete instead of poor hermeneutical practices by some of taking a verse from 1Cor 13 out of it's context (that chapter is about love plopped in the middle of other chapters on gifts indicating a rebuke to spiritual pride), or by using human reasoning to force our presuppositions onto the text.
Whatever happened to Sola Scriptura?
(Yes, there are abuses, but that could indicate the real McCoy is close at hand as satan loves to counterfeit in order to discredit what is true.)
Romans 11:29 NKJV
[29] For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
I would like to see some Scripture indicating that that gift would cease when the Canon would be complete instead of poor hermeneutical practices by some of taking a verse from 1Cor 13 out of it's context (that chapter is about love plopped in the middle of other chapters on gifts indicating a rebuke to spiritual pride), or by using human reasoning to force our presuppositions onto the text.
Whatever happened to Sola Scriptura?
(Yes, there are abuses, but that could indicate the real McCoy is close at hand as satan loves to counterfeit in order to discredit what is true.)
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I shared this in another thread but feel it could be useful here as well:
I recalled something that occurred years ago that was very interesting. Our church purchased pews and upon arriving to get them a discussion ensued. The sellers shared that they were "Bapticostals." Well that certainly peaked interest. This was their testimony:
The group of men decided to come together and pray to strengthen their walk with Jesus. As they sincerely cried out in prayer, to their amazement, the entire group was filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in tongues. Afterward, they were so filled with joy they could barely contain their excitement as they waited to share the good news with the members of their church.
Sunday came and the men proudly stood before he congregation and relayed their experience. "We were all infilled and spoke in tongues just like the others on the Day of Pentecost. We could hardly believe it ourselves! There is no doubt that what happened to us was from God," they said with smiles beaming from ear to ear.
They went on to say you could have heard a pin drop, when the pastor ushered them to the door and told them they were no longer welcome to fellowship with his church.
The men were surprised by the response of their congregation. However they decided not to be discouraged and to go forward and share the true plan of salvation. They began a church and still refer to themselves as "Bapticostals."
I enjoy this testimony because it gives God all the glory! Our Lord and Savior will honor those who sincerely seek Him.
I recalled something that occurred years ago that was very interesting. Our church purchased pews and upon arriving to get them a discussion ensued. The sellers shared that they were "Bapticostals." Well that certainly peaked interest. This was their testimony:
The group of men decided to come together and pray to strengthen their walk with Jesus. As they sincerely cried out in prayer, to their amazement, the entire group was filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in tongues. Afterward, they were so filled with joy they could barely contain their excitement as they waited to share the good news with the members of their church.
Sunday came and the men proudly stood before he congregation and relayed their experience. "We were all infilled and spoke in tongues just like the others on the Day of Pentecost. We could hardly believe it ourselves! There is no doubt that what happened to us was from God," they said with smiles beaming from ear to ear.
They went on to say you could have heard a pin drop, when the pastor ushered them to the door and told them they were no longer welcome to fellowship with his church.
The men were surprised by the response of their congregation. However they decided not to be discouraged and to go forward and share the true plan of salvation. They began a church and still refer to themselves as "Bapticostals."
I enjoy this testimony because it gives God all the glory! Our Lord and Savior will honor those who sincerely seek Him.
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God's Word says what it says. Not what we would like it to say. As I noted Paul said he prayed and sang WITH the spirit not in the power of the spirit. Big difference.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim 3:16-17
The Word says what it means and means what it says. An individual's lack of the experience of speaking in tongues does not change the fact that the Word of God says it did and will continue to take place.
"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." Isa 28:11
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" Mark 16:17
The apostles even warned that there would be mockers in the last days that have not the Spirit.
Those who do have the Spirit are to build up their most holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost. That comes directly from the Word.
Jude 18-20
"How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,"
"For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." Isa 28:11
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" Mark 16:17
The apostles even warned that there would be mockers in the last days that have not the Spirit.
Those who do have the Spirit are to build up their most holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost. That comes directly from the Word.
Jude 18-20
"How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,"
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