THE BIBLE AND THE NUMBER 46

[graceNpeace]

Yes, as old as I am I have felt rather fuzzy today, so it is nice to know I am still seen as being sharp, even at this advanced stage of my decrepitude I just turned 63 less than two weeks ago. Considering how many times I almost died as a non-believing, drug abusing, co-dependent, professionally practicing pagan alcoholic, it is truly a wonder I have lived this long. And you are not that far behind me heeheehee Thank you

I like to tell people that the biggest miracle to be witnessed on earth is the salvation of a soul. You are a living witness to that reality.
And, like I said, long may it continue!

 

[James37]

What patterns, and how would you know?

Simple patterns. God tends to use 7's in His word.

word of God = 49 (7 x 7) times in KJB; this is a simple pattern
Word = 7 times in King James Bible (case)
Holy Spirit = 7 times

these are simple patterns of significant words and phrases in the Bible that are multiples of 7

How do I know? Computer and software.

 

[graceNpeace]

Simple patterns. God tends to use 7's in His word.

word of God = 49 (7 x 7) times in KJB; this is a simple pattern
Word = 7 times in King James Bible (case)
Holy Spirit = 7 times

these are simple patterns of significant words and phrases in the Bible that are multiples of 7

And, what if these patterns do not exist in the manuscripts from which even the KJV was translated from?
And, before you question this, these manuscripts still exist.

 

[James37]

And, what if these patterns do not exist in the manuscripts from which even the KJV was translated from?
And, before you question this, these manuscripts still exist.

They do exist for example Genesis 1:1 in the Hebrew consists of 7 words. The gematria of these 7 words is 2701 which is 37 x 73. In the King James Bible God speaks exactly 343 (7 x 7 x 7) words in Genesis 1:1. There supposedly is a pattern in the Greek of Matthew 1 where all words letters vowels etc. are multiples of 7. Who knows what other patterns there are but they do exist. I posted examples of patterns others have found in the Greek and Hebrew on there number 37 thread I started.

 

[Angela53510]

Oh good! I was hoping you would start another one of these OCD Magical Thinking posts! Not Biblical thinking but a from of mental illness, and kind of OCD, or sometimes found in schizophrenic or bipolar psychosis. I’ve had an article sitting on my desktop since your last post about 37, waiting for you to go back to this nonsense. Well, real to you, I am sure. But psychosis/OCD always is.

As for those of you who think mental illness is either of the devil, or you can think you way out of it, feel free not to read this telling article. This has nothing to do with any Bible translation, but it does make me wonder what these people who are obsessed with the KJVOnly and numbers are afraid of? That is what the article is about!


“In OCD, unfortunately, its usage and negative effects expand far beyond these ordinary limits. Beginning as a way to control anxiety brought on by obsessions, it gradually escapes the user's control, taking over their life, and actually generating greater anxiety than it was originally supposed to relieve.

There is currently no scientific explanation as to why some individuals tend to think magically as compared to having any other symptoms. No one actually understands why anyone has his or her special type of obsessive concerns. Many of those with OCD are constantly bombarded with very strange and doubtful thoughts about harm coming to themselves and/or others. These thoughts can be quite extreme. Their inner world of doubt seems out of the range of normal control. One other possible influence upon the development of magical thinking in OCD may be if an individual with OCD comes from a culture in which superstition and daily ritual plays a strong role. Growing up in such a background cannot, of course, cause OCD, however, I believe it can certainly help give someone at risk a push in the wrong direction if everyone at home is regularly practicing magical rituals. No one with OCD was ever made better by growing up in a superstitious environment.


Those who suffer from magical obsessions have a great need for control in the face of their extraordinary and unusual fears, but they quickly come to realize that ordinary types of protective measures cannot help them. Their doubt is so overwhelming that the normal means of control simply don't apply in their magical obsessive world. The most logical or scientific thinking usually cannot give them explanations or reassurance. OCD, after all, was formerly known as "The Doubting Sickness." I am fond of saying that if you had to sum up OCD in two words, they would be "Pathological Doubt." As in primitive times where people felt a need to control happenings in a world they couldn't explain, those with magical obsessions feel that they must therefore resort to something far beyond the ordinary. Only in this way can they have a sense of security and control. What can supply this? The answer, of course, is magic. It appears to be their only possible alternative, and as we know, is something that comes rather easily to humans.


Superstition and magic create connections between things that according to logic and the laws of science, don't connect within the real world. Numbers, words, and actions appear to control events in the present and future. Bad luck or good luck can be spread by thought, by sight, by touch, or simply by association. Those with this type of OCD realize that their behaviors are unrealistic and sound crazy to others, but they use them anyway to relieve their anxiety. Because magic figures into a fair proportion of OCD, and can sound so irrational, it is most likely the reason that so many sufferers have been misdiagnosed over the years as having schizophrenia.


Like the magic of old, compulsions of the magical variety can include all sorts of superstitious and ritualistic behaviors. What these different magical compulsions all have in common with each other and with ancient magic are that they are performed for the purpose of preventing bad events in advance, or for undoing events or thoughts which have already occurred. One other similarity to other types of magic is that often the steps of the compulsive ritual must be kept rigidly "pure" and perfect, and cannot vary, or else they will not work. Additionally, rituals must be performed while in the correct state of mind, with no interfering 'bad' or wayward thoughts. Because anxiety typically hampers the performance of almost anything, sufferers generally find it very difficult to get their rituals to be perfect. They get the steps in the wrong order, forget to do something, or an unpleasant obsession or image intrudes during the ritual, thus "contaminating" and destroying the magic. Even if an individual's obsessions allow them to redo botched rituals, they may still get a fair proportion of them wrong. This, of course, can lead to hours spent ritualizing to get things 'just right.' If the rules governing a sufferer's obsessions will not allow them to have another chance at the ritual, a lot of careful planning or activity can be totally ruined in an instant. If, in particular, it is a ritual that can only be done at a special moment or on a specific day, there might not be another chance for days or even weeks to try it again. An entire day, a month, or even a coming year can be "ruined" in this way. I have seen people utterly unable to function during these "ruined" time periods. This is how rituals, themselves, become sources of anxiety in a circular sort of way.
It has been believed since ancient times that numbers could be a source of power. Pythagoras, the ancient Greek philosopher is reputed to have stated: "The world is built upon the power of numbers."


Actually, in terms of what physics, math, and chemistry are currently showing us in terms of understanding the patterns of our universe, there is a certain amount of truth to this, but not in the sense that numbers can somehow be magically manipulated.


The false science of numerology has been in existence since at least the time of the ancient Babylonians. It was based upon the concept that the universe is composed of mathematical patterns, and that all things can be expressed as numbers that connect to these patterns. Pythagoras himself believed that the entire universe could be expressed numerically. Numerologists and magicians have always believed that every number has a special vibration, or power. Numbers have been used over the centuries for forecasting the future (also known as divination) and in magic practices. Ancient numerologists assigned numbers to letters of their alphabets, and through them were able to tell people's futures, or even find hidden magical meanings in the bible and other written works, as if these were written in some type of special code. In different cultures, numbers may have the power to give magical control, and some may also be taboo (such as 13 or 666).


Many of the rules for numbers seen in numerology and magic are also seen in OCD. Some of these rules are common to many sufferers (13 and 666 are bad, even numbers are good, odd numbers are bad, etc.) and some are particular only to specific individuals. Sometimes multiples of bad numbers are also bad, or even worse than the original bad number. For some, a multiple's power to do harm seems to increase with its size. Undoing rituals are quite common where magical number obsessions are present. For instance, bad numbers are usually canceled out by good numbers, or simply by counting to, thinking of, or looking at higher numbers. In the case of some sufferers, if they are reading a book and stop reading on a bad numbered page, they must keep reading until they can stop on a good numbered page. I can't tell you how many patients I have had, who had to turn their TVs or radios on or off on a particular numbered channel or station.


In terms of what can be done to remedy magical obsessions and compulsions, I recommend, as usual, the two-pronged approach of medication plus behavioral therapy. I can't tell you everything there is to know about this broad subject in this article, but I can give you a brief rundown. As far as medications go, antidepressant medications such as Anafranil, Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor, Serzone, Celexa, or Lexapro can provide a degree of symptom relief, reducing the obsessive thoughts and the urges to do compulsions sufficiently to allow behavioral therapy to help the sufferer overcome the rest of the problem. This is not to say that one cannot be successful without medication, however, it does improve your chances quite a bit. On the other hand, medication alone usually isn't sufficient to do the job entirely.
By behavioral therapy, I mean specifically, Exposure and Response Prevention (E&RP). The person in treatment is gradually encouraged to put themselves in a position for the bad luck or harm to occur, and then is discouraged from carrying out the avoidance or the magical ritual. It is not that magical thinkers totally believe in their magic. They don't. They do, however, experience serious doubts and need encouragement to take the risks necessary to see that their beliefs aren't justified. One of the great problems of OCD is that these beliefs are never challenged. Most of those with OCD don't stay in the presence of what they fear long enough to learn that nothing would actually happen and that their anxiety would eventually pass even if they did nothing in response to the obsessions. The fact is, that you really can't run away from obsessive fears. Doing behavioral therapy for OCD is, in reality, a way of getting closer to the truth. It teaches people to act as scientists conducting experiments. By repeatedly confronting obsessions and then resisting compulsions, sufferers gradually build up a tolerance to what they fear, until it can no longer have any impact on them. I like to tell my patients that: "You can't be bored and scared at the same time."


In therapy, a listing, or hierarchy, is created in which all feared situations are ranked in order, usually on a one to ten or a zero to 100 scale. This scale is then used in the creation of homework assignments. As patients carry out therapy assignments, they work their way up the scale, gradually tackling more and more difficult items via homework assignments, or working with the therapist in the office or on field trips. No one is ever forced to do anything, and nothing is thrown at them by surprise. Exposure to obsessive thoughts may be accomplished via taped presentations, writing assignments, or selected readings. I have found the exposure tapes to be of particular value. They tell the sufferer in gradually increasing doses that the harm they fear really will occur, and that there is no escape. They are used several times per day, and increased in difficulty as the listener's anxiety decreases with presentations. Despite what you may have heard from various sources, obsessions can be as effectively treated as compulsions. It all hinges on a well-designed treatment. Exposure can take place on the mental level just as easily as in the physical world. Some people require repeated exposures to feared situations, and some may require only one. In this latter case, it is almost as if by finally facing the fear, the sufferer is breaking a 'spell' (to use a magical term). This is certainly not to suggest that therapy is in some way like magic; it isn't. Far from it. Therapy requires persistent and consistent work.


By working in this way, confidence is progressively increased, and symptoms are systematically eliminated. The person becomes habituated to their fearful thoughts to the point of no longer having to react to them, even if they do not completely cease. In uncomplicated cases, the process described above should take anywhere from six to twelve months. With individuals who habituate after only a few exposures to each feared situation, the process may even be more rapid.
In any case, the technology of treatment exists, and there is no reason for anyone to suffer with magical obsessions or any other symptom of OCD at this point in time. If you have been sitting around hesitating or procrastinating, make every effort to seek help now.”

Magical Numbers and OCD - Your Number Is Up!

 

[graceNpeace]

They do exist for example Genesis 1:1 in the Hebrew consists of 7 words. The gematria of these 7 words is 2701 which is 37 x 73. In the King James Bible God speaks exactly 343 (7 x 7 x 7) words in Genesis 1:1. There supposedly is a pattern in the Greek of Matthew 1 where all words letters vowels etc. are multiples of 7. Who knows what other patterns there are but they do exist.

Now, for someone with a documented disdain for the original languages that the Old and New Testament was written in, and no knowledge of the same, how would you know?
For you this is all hearsay.
Actually, you have no idea whether these patterns that you are so insistent occur in an English language translation occur in the original manuscripts from whence the translation came.
And, since the structure of English (grammar, for you) is so different to either Greek or Hebrew/Aramaic, not to mention the lack of one-to-one equivalents when translating individual words from these languages into English, I would say that any real patterns in those manuscripts is completely beyond your ability to comprehend currently (you admitted to no knowledge of Greek or Hebrew/Aramaic), and that any patterns to be found in any English translation would almost certainly not match the original manuscripts.

Houston, we have a problem...

 

[Magenta]

I like to tell people that the biggest miracle to be witnessed on earth is the salvation of a soul. You are a living witness to that reality.

And, like I said, long may it continue!

Thank you. Yes, it really was a miracle. I was pretty much dead-set in the natural man (woman ) against God, the Bible, and Christianity, though I was a spiritual person, and decidedly open to the possibility of there being Something, I did not want it to be the One True God Who revealed Himself to me a few times over the years as I was seeking. I realized years after first getting clean in 1994 (after crying out to the God I did not believe in for help, not even for help with my drug addiction, but for my unhealthy co-dependence, which was causing a lot of emotional pain in my life) for the first time since I'd started using as a fifteen year old, and working the steps, which are 100% God centered (a fact many people do not realize), that years of seeking really amounted to attempting to define God in ways that were acceptable to me as opposed to defining myself in ways that were acceptable to God. I will never forget that moment of realizing I was becoming "one of them" A Christian LOL. But, I love God, and His revealed written Word, and the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, Who gave His life as an atoning sacrifice, a ransom for many, that we may be reconciled to God by grace through faith in the shedding of His righteous blood for the forgiveness of sins. I want to live for Him, since it is only because of Him that I live
​

 

[James37]

Now, for someone with a documented disdain for the original languages that the Old and New Testament was written in, and no knowledge of the same, how would you know?
For you this is all hearsay.
Actually, you have no idea whether these patterns that you are so insistent occur in an English language translation occur in the original manuscripts from whence the translation came.
And, since the structure of English (grammar, for you) is so different to either Greek or Hebrew/Aramaic, not to mention the lack of one-to-one equivalents when translating individual words from these languages into English, I would say that any real patterns in those manuscripts is completely beyond your ability to comprehend currently (you admitted to no knowledge of Greek or Hebrew/Aramaic), and that any patterns to be found in any English translation would almost certainly not match the original manuscripts.

Houston, we have a problem...[/QUOTE]

I don't have disdain for the Hebrew and Greek. I just do not elevate them above the King James Bible because there is no good reason to do so.

[video=youtube;G7uU3nJ5aAU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7uU3nJ5aAU[/video]

 

[graceNpeace]

Now, for someone with a documented disdain for the original languages that the Old and New Testament was written in, and no knowledge of the same, how would you know?
For you this is all hearsay.
Actually, you have no idea whether these patterns that you are so insistent occur in an English language translation occur in the original manuscripts from whence the translation came.
And, since the structure of English (grammar, for you) is so different to either Greek or Hebrew/Aramaic, not to mention the lack of one-to-one equivalents when translating individual words from these languages into English, I would say that any real patterns in those manuscripts is completely beyond your ability to comprehend currently (you admitted to no knowledge of Greek or Hebrew/Aramaic), and that any patterns to be found in any English translation would almost certainly not match the original manuscripts.

Houston, we have a problem...

I don't have disdain for the Hebrew and Greek. I just do not elevate them above the King James Bible because there is no good reason to do so.

[video=youtube;G7uU3nJ5aAU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7uU3nJ5aAU[/video][/QUOTE]
Actually you are!
Almost certainly those manuscripts contradict most (all) of what you saying about the significance of numbers (as found in the KJV).
You have placed the KJV as your final authority.

You see I know a few people who are interested in bible numerics, and they know their original languages well, and they would never seek to use a translation, English or otherwise, in their investigations.
They would laugh out loud at your efforts and declarations.

 

[graceNpeace]

Thank you. Yes, it really was a miracle. I was pretty much dead-set in the natural man (woman ) against God, the Bible, and Christianity, though I was a spiritual person, and decidedly open to the possibility of there being Something, I did not want it to be the One True God Who revealed Himself to me a few times over the years as I was seeking. I realized years after first getting clean in 1994 (after crying out to the God I did not believe in for help, not even for help with my drug addiction, but for my unhealthy co-dependence, which was causing a lot of emotional pain in my life) for the first time since I'd started using as a fifteen year old, and working the steps, which are 100% God centered (a fact many people do not realize), that years of seeking really amounted to attempting to define God in ways that were acceptable to me as opposed to defining myself in ways that were acceptable to God. I will never forget that moment of realizing I was becoming "one of them" A Christian LOL. But, I love God, and His revealed written Word, and the Living Word of God, Jesus Christ, Who gave His life as an atoning sacrifice, a ransom for many, that we may be reconciled to God by grace through faith in the shedding of His righteous blood for the forgiveness of sins. I want to live for Him, since it is only because of Him that I live
​

I wish we could trail testimonies like these across the sky!

But, in your case we are going to have make do with your Magenta font!

 

[James37]

You have placed the KJV as your final authority.

Of course I have LOL! I can read it unlike Greek and Hebrew!

"authority" = 37 times in the King James Bible

 

[graceNpeace]

Of course I have LOL! I can read it unlike Greek and Hebrew!

And you clearly do not see the problem that you have in trying to claim the significance of numbers based on a translation, where the numbers and patterns that you see in the KJV do not exist in the manuscripts...

 

[James37]

And you clearly do not see the problem that you have in trying to claim the significance of numbers based on a translation, where the numbers and patterns that you see in the KJV do not exist in the manuscripts...

According to your word which doesn't count for much!

 

[graceNpeace]

According to your word which doesn't count for much!

Actually it is your credibility that is completely threadbare here.
You see I can actually go to the original language Greek text at least (not so much Hebrew and Aramaic - still a beginner there) and easily refute, if not every one of your claims, most of them.
Why?
Because it is simplicity itself to show that many of the words that you have counted from the KJV, and view as significant, actually come from different and unrelated words in the original languages.
And, the same word, in Greek or Hebrew, can be translated to several different words, according to context, in English.
And, in fact, I would only need to find a single occurrence of this situation to destroy your theory.

I told you before: you are building your house on sand...

 

[James37]

Actually it is your credibility that is completely threadbare here.
You see I can actually go to the original language Greek text at least (not so much Hebrew and Aramaic - still a beginner there) and easily refute, if not every one of your claims, most of them.
Why?
Because it is simplicity itself to show that many of the words that you have counted from the KJV, and view as significant, actually come from different and unrelated words in the original languages.
And, the same word, in Greek or Hebrew, can be translated to several different words, according to context, in English.
And, in fact, I would only need to find a single occurrence of this situation to destroy your theory.

I told you before: you are building your house on sand...

How are you going to refute the fact that "truth" in the KJB is found:

235 (47 x 5) times in 222 (37 x 6) verses and 46 books using the Greek?

 

[graceNpeace]

How are you going to refute the fact that "truth" in the KJB is found:

235 (47 x 5) times in 222 (37 x 6) verses and 46 books using the Greek?

If different words are used in the original languages that are translated "truth" in English then none of the counting or other maths has any meaning, but I already said as much in my previous post - clearly you are not reading the posts.

 

[James37]

If different words are used in the original languages that are translated "truth" in English then none of the counting or other maths has any meaning, but I already said as much in my previous post - clearly you are not reading the posts.

Here is a question for you? Did God say that he was going to speak to His people in other tongues or languages anywhere in the Bible?

 

[graceNpeace]

Here is a question for you? Did God say that he was going to speak to His people in other tongues or languages anywhere in the Bible?

Irrelevant.
The Bible was written Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek.

 

[Limey410v2]

There is no "secret" code. God tells us clearly the way to salvation, through Jesus Christ. I think that if God wishes to speak to folks through numbers that's awesome, but not "seeing" those numbers don't mean no thang!!!

 

[James37]

Irrelevant.
The Bible was written Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek.

I asked a question about something the Bible may say and your response is irrelevant! What is irrelevant is our opinions! This may come as a surprise to you but who do you think created the languages in the first place? (Genesis 11)