The Bible cannot be fully understood without God’s Holy Spirit

[Snacks]

You think God doesn’t care about obedience to His commands as long as someone’s heart is in the “right place?” What verse do you base your doctrine off of? I tell people to be water baptized because God commands it.

Why do you say what you said?

Sprinkling is water baptism which is obedient to God’s commands. That is indisputable. What verse states that we must be fully immersed in order for baptism to be true and effective? And I never said anything about not being water baptized so quit twisting my words. I know you’re not that disingenuous.

 

[Runningman]

That does not matter.
Gow much water does God need to wash away sin? Best practice is dunked, but if pouring is what is available or if sprinkling is what is available then what ever, what matter is faith mingled with the Words of Jesus mingled with the water.
If you have these, faith, hope, and Love then you have the Holy Spirit.

I believe 1 Peter 3:21 answers that particular question directly. It isn’t so much that God needs liquid water to save someone, but people who obey God in good faith are showing they have a good conscience toward Him.

Obedience is a spiritual thing and God can see the sincerity in our heart how we obey or not. It isn’t a small matter to disobey God or replace Biblical examples of how the early church functioned with traditions of men.

 

[Dirtman]

Sprinkling is water baptism which is obedient to God’s commands. That is indisputable. What verse states that we must be fully immersed in order for baptism to be true and effective? And I never said anything about not being water baptized so quit twisting my words. I know you’re not that disingenuous.

I find it a strange irony that those who say baptism doesnt do anything insist it must be immersion, but those who say it is a means of Grace say use what ever water is available. Then there is the question. Why do they believe in immersion? The practice wash pouring through out church history until the anabaptists and I'm not sure they did dunking at first.

 

[FEMIN]

You didn't?
I think you really probably did.
How about now?

No when I got my baptism I was just 3
Wdym?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

At one point I thought anyone could understand the Bible, but the longer I am around Christians I realize that those who (allegedly, but only God knows) have the Holy Spirit don’t necessarily want to listen or know how to listen to Him.

The Bible isn’t a normal book. Yes some of the surface information can be understood by just reading the words on the pages, but if someone can’t or won’t listen to the Holy Spirit then they’ll never really be able to understand most of the Bible with any depth of understanding.

I know many people have probably heard this a million times and think they’re under some sort of blessing that makes them automatically understand the Bible, but with over 45,000 denominations and countless cults, that just isn’t the case.

Christians must choose to listen to the Holy Spirit everyday, but there are so many reasons why they don’t.

Today, if you’ll hear His voice, listen to the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit will guide you, or try rather, but if you won’t follow and won’t listen to your Guide’s directions then you won’t be guided anywhere except by yourself or other influences.

John 16:23 LEB
But when he—the Spirit of truth—comes, he will guide you into all the truth. For he will not speak from himself, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will proclaim to you the things to come.

Your comments are truth. I study from the KJV, and I did not recognise your version of John 16:23 at all, however it is still truth.

 

[Dirtman]

No when I got my baptism I was just 3
Wdym?

Why cant a 3 year old have faith hope and Love?

 

[Runningman]

Sprinkling is water baptism which is obedient to God’s commands. That is indisputable. What verse states that we must be fully immersed in order for baptism to be true and effective? And I never said anything about not being water baptized so quit twisting my words. I know you’re not that disingenuous.

You’re right I should give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you didn’t know that sprinkling with water is not the method of water baptism they used in the Bible. I’m a bit of a fundamentalist so I try to adhere as closely as I can to biblical examples, believing they shouldn’t be changed.

Here’s proof that water baptism is full immersion:

John 3:23
23And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Matthew 3:16
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Acts 8:38
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

 

[Runningman]

Your comments are truth. I study from the KJV, and I did not recognise your version of John 16:23 at all, however it is still truth.

I didn’t learn this from studying the Bible really. I just learned this from talking to people. It’s always fascinated me how people have different perspectives on the same things and now I know why.

It’s like Jesus said, “If I tell you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?”

We’re so confused down here on the ground because we aren’t really listening or know how to listen to God. They had the same problem in Biblical times too.

The version of the Bible I quoted is called the Lexham English Bible. I’ve been enjoying it a lot so far. Of course I consult many versions of the Bible regularly, KJV being one of my favorites.

 

[p_rehbein]

Why cant a 3 year old have faith hope and Love?

A three year old is not mentally mature enough to distinguish between good and evil as it pertains to eternal salvation. God does not hold those not yet old enough to determine that they are living against the Word of God accountable.

They can have faith, hope and love surely, however, this faith, hope and love is based on their physical needs provided by their parents. The can not determine that they are sinners in need of the saving grace of God.

As well, the "sprinkling" of infants being taught as baptism unto salvation is completely unBiblical.........If the only baptism a person has known is this type, then they are in danger of eternal damnation, for they have NOT received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They have not recognized their sinful state, repented, and asked Jesus to come into their lives to be Lord and Savior...... Infants ARE NOT capable of this.

The VERY FIRST Sermon Jesus preached (found in Matthew, Chapter 4) was REPENT! Please explain how an INFANT can repent?

 

[ChristianTonyB]

No when I got my baptism I was just 3
Wdym?

Hi FEMIN, welcome to Christian Chat.

Unfortunately, being a Catholic or a member of any other denomination, doesn't make anyone a Christian. Participating in a denomination's religious rites also does not make anyone a Christian.
Since Jesus' appearance and ministry here on earth, the Holy Spirit is poured out only on those that have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. If you sincerely believe that He is the Son of God, and that He has sacrificed Himself as an offering to God for the appeasement of your sins, and commit your loyalty to Him, then you will be saved from the consequences of your sins, and added to God's family, the church. Also, you will be given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That's it, you don't have to do anything else. At least that's what happened to me, and I've heard others say that it happened to them that way too, whether they were baptised in water or not.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You can confess sin to God and ask for forgiveness immediately upon sinning. Tell Him exactly what you did wrong and be specific. Don’t be embarrassed with God, He loves honesty even if it’s ugly.

You can talk like this for example.

“Dear Father in heaven, I want to confess my sin to You. I see I have made a terrible mistake and I will try to not do it again. Please help me not to want to sin. Thank You for the forgiveness you’ve given me through Christ’s sacrifice. Praise and glory to You God. I love You forever!. In Jesus’s name. Amen.”

One more thing that I think is a necessity, in order to let the Holy Spirit began to reveal some truths to you, is that you have to deny your intellectual capabilities to understand the truths contained in the scriptures and depend 100% upon the revelation of the Holy Spirit that dwells within you, if you have been born again. The un-regenerant person will never understand the scriptures, thinking them to be foolishness (1 Cor 2:14).

Because of my pride and stubbornness, I studied, diligently, for 12 years, with the mindset that I was intelligent enough to figure the scriptures out where they, seemingly, did not have contradictions between the scriptures. I finally, gave up that I was smart enough
and would have to be content with not understanding the scriptures, and not too long after I denied myself (intelect) the Holy Spirit began gradually revealing some truths to me during a conversation with my brother-in-law.

 

[Snacks]

You’re right I should give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you didn’t know that sprinkling with water is not the method of water baptism they used in the Bible. I’m a bit of a fundamentalist so I try to adhere as closely as I can to biblical examples, believing they shouldn’t be changed.

Here’s proof that water baptism is full immersion:

John 3:23
23And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Matthew 3:16
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Acts 8:38
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

It’s all good brother. I know your heart is right with God and you mean the best for people. I’m the same way but sometimes my passion for embracing the simplicity of God’s grace gets the best of me.

 

[Runningman]

It’s all good brother. I know your heart is right with God and you mean the best for people. I’m the same way but sometimes my passion for embracing the simplicity of God’s grace gets the best of me.

Thanks brother for saying that. It’s all good.

 

[Melach]

the classic "you need the Holy Spirit to believe as I do, if you don't believe as i do, you probably don't have the Holy Spirit"

basically, everyone claims wisdom from the Holy Spirit and it means absolutely nothing. what it really is, is different people interpret the bible differently, all claiming Holy Spirit as their opinion.

 

[jaybo]

Sprinkling is water baptism which is obedient to God’s commands. That is indisputable. What verse states that we must be fully immersed in order for baptism to be true and effective? And I never said anything about not being water baptized so quit twisting my words. I know you’re not that disingenuous.

Baptism is symbolic burial. Sprinkling is symbolic rain.

Romans 6:4, "Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life."

 

[jaybo]

One more thing that I think is a necessity, in order to let the Holy Spirit began to reveal some truths to you, is that you have to deny your intellectual capabilities to understand the truths contained in the scriptures and depend 100% upon the revelation of the Holy Spirit that dwells within you, if you have been born again. The un-regenerant person will never understand the scriptures, thinking them to be foolishness (1 Cor 2:14).

Because of my pride and stubbornness, I studied, diligently, for 12 years, with the mindset that I was intelligent enough to figure the scriptures out where they, seemingly, did not have contradictions between the scriptures. I finally, gave up that I was smart enough
and would have to be content with not understanding the scriptures, and not too long after I denied myself (intelect) the Holy Spirit began gradually revealing some truths to me during a conversation with my brother-in-law.

Which translation(s) did you use? There are several translations that I use that I think give great clarity and understanding: The NET, the NRSV, and the NIV. The first two have excellent notes that enhance one's understanding (in their expanded editions).

 

[Beckie]

The Blood of Jesus, God's Son, God's sacrifice just is not enough for some folks . They deeply believe their actions , works, make His Blood some how complete. Should a believer be baptized yes.

 

[Snacks]

Baptism is symbolic burial. Sprinkling is symbolic rain.

If you can show me where Jesus says that I would be most appreciative.

 

[Dirtman]

A three year old is not mentally mature enough to distinguish between good and evil as it pertains to eternal salvation. God does not hold those not yet old enough to determine that they are living against the Word of God accountable.

They can have faith, hope and love surely, however, this faith, hope and love is based on their physical needs provided by their parents. The can not determine that they are sinners in need of the saving grace of God.

As well, the "sprinkling" of infants being taught as baptism unto salvation is completely unBiblical.........If the only baptism a person has known is this type, then they are in danger of eternal damnation, for they have NOT received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They have not recognized their sinful state, repented, and asked Jesus to come into their lives to be Lord and Savior...... Infants ARE NOT capable of this.

The VERY FIRST Sermon Jesus preached (found in Matthew, Chapter 4) was REPENT! Please explain how an INFANT can repent?

He also said unless you come as one of the little children you may not enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus didnt turn them away as his disciples attempted to do. Their parents brought them to Jesus and he accepted them.

 

[jaybo]

If you can show me where Jesus says that I would be most appreciative.

Here is what Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote to the church in Rome: "

"Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life. " Romans 6:4

The ritual of sprinkling is not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.