How about?
"I am the bread of life."
And, we eat the meat of the Word. Hebrews 5:13-14
Babes crave the pure milk of the Word. 1 Peter 2:2
In Christ.... grace and peace.
The book of Job
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"I am the bread of life."
And, we eat the meat of the Word. Hebrews 5:13-14
Babes crave the pure milk of the Word. 1 Peter 2:2
In Christ.... grace and peace.
I believe you misunderstood what I was saying. Reneweddaybyday implied Job did not have the word of God. I was being factious when I asked if Job was hallucinating when he said he loved the word of God. By implication, Reneweddaybyday indicated Job did not have our knowledge of Satan. In order for Job to love the word of God, he had to possess it. Why wouldn't Job be aware of Satan? Even Adam was aware of Satan, and he didn't possess the New Testament.
disagree Job "didn't know how to be right with God" ... Job did know "how to be right with God" ... as exhibited in the beginning chapters of the book.
what Job did not understand was why he going through the turmoil inflicted upon him ... not by God, but by satan.
yes ... satan was around since time of Adam. However, I believe Job lived long before Genesis was written. You do not believe so ... even though your own source revealed that Job lived long before the book of Job was written.
the fact that neither Job nor his friends considered satan as a source for Job's suffering ... even though the Author of the book clearly states it was satan who smote Job with sore boils over his whole body.
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Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
Why would Job ask how to be right with God if he was already right with God?
Job didn't live long before Adam. When the book of Job was written has nothing to do with who sanctioned it.
Yes, it was Satan who got his hands dirty, but it was God who sanctioned it.
The Word of God (as we know it) has been put into writing for us.
But it did not have to be put into writing for it to be the Word of God.
Oral tradition was used to pass down what was at that time needed to be understood.
Job lived before the days of Moses.
It is believed that Moses wrote Job as the Spirit inspired him to do so.
Look at what Job was able to know before scriptures were written.
I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
Job 19:25-27
God must have had a good reason for doing so.
Having insight into the prehistoric angelic conflict would shed light upon the reason God brought up Job's name for Satan to consider. For Satan had been bypassing Job.
It is meant to be understood, or it would not be in the Bible.
If you have a moment?
If you would only believe Elihu you would have your answer. Elihu said Job had requested him when Job had pleaded for a daysman.
Job asked that his hand be not heavy, and God was not to terrify him. Then he would speak. God sent a younger man so as not to terrify Job, and Elihu said Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay. Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.
Elihu went on to say that God speaks to men in visions and dreams in the night. Job had acknowledged that he had had visions that had terrified him. Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions: Obviously Job had not responded or God would not have had to chastise Job with a rod. God loved Job, therefore he spared not the rod to keep him back from the pit. (Job 33:14-29)
Many people stumble at the first two chapters with the premise that Job was right with God just because God said Job was blameless and upright. Job admitted he didn't know how to be just with God. Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? Paul said he was blameless in the law while at the same time killing Christians.
God asked Job if he was going to make a permanent covenant with Satan, and yet everyone just seems to ignore that statement. I guess the assumed narrative is jut too hard to penetrate.
That is all good and well.
But? The unasked question?
Did what happened to Job?
Had been arranged by God for dealing with an issue concerning the state of fallen angels vs God's faithful angels?
There is a reason why we are always been watched by angels.
Job was simply Evidence A in the courtroom of God.
And, Satan is always the accusing attorney to prove his case.
My question is?
Are we ready for what can be known outside of the realm of that everything that happens?
Is only is important and pertaining to man?
If God's judgment had been finalized?
Then Satan and his angels would now be in the Lake of Fire forever.
Why are they not?
There is an appeal trial going on, and man is being used as evidence to prove points to vindicate God's verdict, while
Satan is attempting to find the loopholes and a way out.
grace and peace ..........
BINGO. This is the truth brother. And it is arguably the most guarded and hidden truth by this world.
Angelic Conflict Series - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries
ANGELIC CONFLICT Angelic Conflict Series Click any title to view the Tree of Life PDF
gbible.org
BINGO. This is the truth brother. And it is arguably the most guarded and hidden truth by this world.
Angelic Conflict Series - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries
ANGELIC CONFLICT Angelic Conflict Series Click any title to view the Tree of Life PDF
Something many just read as matter of factly...
Never asking why God allows it to happen?
When Satan is allowed access to heaven to accuse Christians before the Father.
It is almost funny.
For God can be righteously sly.
For when Satan accuses and wishes to condemn a believer in the courtroom of heaven?
A believer whom Christ paid for his sins?
Without knowing it, Satan is sealing his fate.
Instead of helping Satan's cause?
By condemning believers for sins that Satan is the father of?
He is admitting that God's judgment of Satan is correct!
The catch is?
Man did not choose to be a sinner from birth.
God in all fairness had man cleared from what he can not help doing, by means of the Cross!
But???? As far as Satan?
His sins are all of his own choosing!
He is condemning himself by condemning the sins of believers.
There is to be no appeal to get out of the Lake of Fire!
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge,
you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured
back to you." Matthew 7:1-2
YES...
God is Genius.
Preach it brother!
The angelic conflict is the KEY to understanding the the Lord Jesus Christ.
He is fair, just and willing that NONE perish.........And Satan and the fallen angels PROVE it to us peons. And us peons PROVE it to satan and the fallen angels.
Genius God.
God had discussion with satan concerning Job. "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?" (Job 1:8) ... "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause" (Job 2:3).
I have already explained to you the meaning of the words "although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause"
satan wanted God to move against Job, but only satan moved against Job, and that without cause.
the words "although thou movedst me" are translated from the Hebrew word sûṯ which means to incite, to urge, to allure, to entice, to instigate.
While satan urged God to afflict Job ... God did not do so in Job 1 or in Job 2.
satan was the one who "moved" against Job ...
is it your belief that God was responsible for killing Job's children, killing Job's servants, killing Job's herds???
I believe satan had already tried to afflict Job, but was thwarted by the "hedge" God had placed around Job.
If you do not agree that satan had already tried to afflict Job, then please explain how satan knew about God's hedge at the time God and satan had their discussion.
God did not "remove" the hedge. God merely lowered the hedge so satan could not outright kill Job.
Here is what I submitted back in April:
reply to JayWalker ... reneweddaybyday said:
God lowered the hedge satan complained about ... but hedged Job which restricted satan from killing Job.
reply to tttallison ... reneweddaybyday said:
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
vs 5 - satan wanted God to inflict Job.
vs 6 - God refused and lowered His hedge (which satan had complained was in his way).
vs 7 - satan smote Job with sore boils ... no mention of the PRIDE! you continuously claim was the reason Job suffered.
The one and only reason Job Job suffered was that satan attacked Job because Job was an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil (Job 2:3).
Here is what I submitted in May:
reply to tttallison reneweddaybyday said:
God lowered His hedge ...
"all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand" (Job 1:12) ... resulting in the loss of life of Job's children, servants, herds,
"he is in thine hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6) ...
satan moved against Job, killed his children, his servants, his herds, then smote Job with boils.
Job has an excuse for his understanding because he was not privy to the discussion between God and satan ... you do not have any excuse because God has made you aware of satan's deeds.
You can claim God was the One who did what God clearly states satan did ... but you would be wrong.
I still believe what I submitted back in April and May. I also do not believe God lowering His hedge was a "removal" of the hedge ... nor is it indicative of any approval by God of satan's ultimate actions against Job.
please explain to me what you believe concerning this issue.
The Author wrote the whole scenario from two perspectives ...
first, from the perspective of one who was privy to the information concerning the discussion and what satan did thereafter; and
second, from the perspective of those who were going through the ordeal and who had no knowledge concerning the discussion between God and satan and the resultant activities of satan in attacking Job and of God in protecting Job; and
I believe what was written in Job 42:11 was written from the second perspective ... from the view of those who were ignorant of satan's involvement as they observed what Job went through.
The Author utilized a literary device (dramatic irony) and if we do not take this into account in reading the book of Job, we can come away with an understanding which does not align with what the Author intended.
continued ...
.
... continued ...
reneweddaybyday said:
please explain how both statements can be true (i.e. that satan smote Job with sore boils and it was the Lord Who brought evil upon Job) ... thank you.
...
Genesis 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
...
Genesis 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
...
Genesis 37:18-20
18 And when they saw him afar off, even before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him.
19 And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
What is written in Genesis 37 delves into what Joseph's brothers did ... their motives ... their envy and hatred of Joseph ... their conspiracy to kill Joseph after which they decided to sell him to the Ishmaelites.
It was not God Who hated Joseph and wanted to kill Joseph … it was Joseph's brothers who envied him to the point of hating him and wanting to kill him.
Just because God worked out the whole mess to His glory does not mean God was the One Who wrought evil against Joseph.
you want to blame God for what occurred in Job? you want to blame God for what Joseph went through? have at it. I will continue to hold responsible those who were responsible ... satan I the case of Job ... and Joseph's brothers in the case of Joseph.
If and when I go through the trials of this life, I do not blame God for the suffering or affliction. I look to God to see me through, rely on His working within me to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle me (1 Peter 5:10). The Lord Jesus Christ tells us to take His yoke upon us. He does not add to our burden ... He shares our burdens and helps us through trying times.
christophernyc said:
reneweddaybyday said:
I have told you my understanding of what occurred regarding Job and what occurred regarding Joseph.
I have stated I understand the concept of God "allowing" certain things to happen (as in the case of satan causing much grief and pain Job went through and in the case of Joseph's brothers having sold Joseph) ... which is not the same as God doing whatever caused the certain things to happen.
You claim this "notion is a red herring and it is conflating two different things" but it is directly responding to your "hunch" that I might not want something "to be the case".
What is the "something" you believe is "the case" and which you have a "hunch" I might not want to be "the case" ???
So long as we focus on the physical aspect in order to understand what we're going through ... there is a spiritual aspect which will escape our understanding because we focus on the physical rather than the spiritual.
The sooner we are able to comprehend the spiritual, the sooner we will understand the physical. At that point, we rely on patience to endure what we go through in this life while experiencing the comfort in knowing that "tribulation worketh patience; and patience experience; and experience, hope. And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us" (Romans 5:3-5).
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reneweddaybyday said:
Either satan wrought evil upon Job or God did. I believe it was satan who wrought evil upon Job.
how do you align Job 2:7 which clearly states satan "smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown" with what is written in Job 42:11 which states Job's brethren, sisters, acquaintances "bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him"? ... both statements cannot be true.
do you believe satan having smote Job with sore boils is the same as the Lord having brought evil upon Job?
please explain how both statements can be true (i.e. that satan smote Job with sore boils and it was the Lord Who brought evil upon Job) ... thank you.
Genesis 37:4 And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him.
...
Genesis 37:8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
...
Genesis 37:11 And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
...
Genesis 37:18-20
18 And when they saw him afar off, even before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him.
19 And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
What is written in Genesis 37 delves into what Joseph's brothers did ... their motives ... their envy and hatred of Joseph ... their conspiracy to kill Joseph after which they decided to sell him to the Ishmaelites.
It was not God Who hated Joseph and wanted to kill Joseph … it was Joseph's brothers who envied him to the point of hating him and wanting to kill him.
Just because God worked out the whole mess to His glory does not mean God was the One Who wrought evil against Joseph.
you want to blame God for what occurred in Job? you want to blame God for what Joseph went through? have at it. I will continue to hold responsible those who were responsible ... satan I the case of Job ... and Joseph's brothers in the case of Joseph.
If and when I go through the trials of this life, I do not blame God for the suffering or affliction. I look to God to see me through, rely on His working within me to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle me (1 Peter 5:10). The Lord Jesus Christ tells us to take His yoke upon us. He does not add to our burden ... He shares our burdens and helps us through trying times.
christophernyc said:
Notice it does not say all the evil “they believed” the Lord had brought upon him. The author simply states “all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him.” It stated as a matter of fact. It’s not stated as what the friends and family “felt” or “thought” or “misunderstood” or “believed” etc etc. It simply states “all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him."
My hunch is that you might not want this to be the case, but what evidence or support do you have otherwise?
reneweddaybyday said:
I understand concept of God "allowing" this or that but that is not the same as God doing what He tells us satan does ... any more than God knowing before He created Adam that Adam would sin equals God having sinned ... or God knowing beforehand that you or I will sin equals God sinning.
no it is not a red herring. The "notion" allows for the actions of those who willingly resist the will of God while also allowing God to remain sovereign overall ... God can and does bring good out of evil when those who resist God bring evil upon those who worship and revere God.
I have told you my understanding of what occurred regarding Job and what occurred regarding Joseph.
I have stated I understand the concept of God "allowing" certain things to happen (as in the case of satan causing much grief and pain Job went through and in the case of Joseph's brothers having sold Joseph) ... which is not the same as God doing whatever caused the certain things to happen.
You claim this "notion is a red herring and it is conflating two different things" but it is directly responding to your "hunch" that I might not want something "to be the case".
What is the "something" you believe is "the case" and which you have a "hunch" I might not want to be "the case" ???
you tell me what "part" God plays "in the tribulations that afflict Job"? ... and please provide chapter and verse. thanks.
the "purpose" is to allow the reader to glean information which will assist the reader in coming to full realization of the spiritual warfare which has been going on from the time Adam and Eve walked the earth to the present time and will continue in the future.
So long as we focus on the physical aspect in order to understand what we're going through ... there is a spiritual aspect which will escape our understanding because we focus on the physical rather than the spiritual.
The sooner we are able to comprehend the spiritual, the sooner we will understand the physical. At that point, we rely on patience to endure what we go through in this life while experiencing the comfort in knowing that "tribulation worketh patience; and patience experience; and experience, hope. And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us" (Romans 5:3-5).
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how about the fact that Job believed God was the One Who killed his children, killed his servants, had his herds stolen. Here is what Job said after that fiasco brought on by satan:
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
and how about the fact that Job believed he had received evil from God after satan smote him with sore boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. Here is what Job sad after that:
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Do you believe it was God Who killed Job's children? ... killed Job's servants? ... stole Job's herds?
Do you believe God smote Job with sore boils all over his body ... even though Job 2:7 tells you it was satan who smote Job?
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False Dilemma. It was not either or it was both, but each had a different purpose.
Jhn 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Was God evil for having blinded this man?
I love that section ... many disciples left following the Lord Jesus Christ after He taught them He was the bread that came down from heaven.
Interesting that the Lord Jesus Christ is the bread of life ... and He was born in Bethlehem.
gotta crave and eat the pablum so we can mature to the point of truly enjoying the meat.
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sigh ... of course Job had "the word of God". Job lived in a time when God spoke directly to folks ... think Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.
or, since you believe Job was an unbelieving sinner ... think Cain, pharaoh during Joseph's time, Balaam.
What Job did not have was "the word of God" in written form. Even the verse you submitted makes clear "the word of God" Job referred to was "the commandment of His lips" ... "the words of His mouth":
Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.
Job did not refer to any written Word of God.
were you being "factious" or "facetious" ???
Adam was aware of the serpent [Hebrew = nāḥāš].
Please provide chapter and verse which indicates Adam was aware of satan [Hebrew = śāṭān].
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