The Charismatic movement?

[Willie-T]

That is what you get when people cruise posts for something negative, rather than taking into consideration the entirety of it.

This one incident, and that comment SHOULD be a real eye opener to many of us...... but it probably won't be.

 

[Willie-T]

So many folks just speculating.

When we were traveling back and forth to pensacola in the mid 90's for the Brownsville outpouring(awesome beyond words). We enjoyed such a powerful imparting every time we visited. people could see the change in our countenance,conversation,walk,and our deeds. We could not get that silly grin off our face.One night at our home church the pastor said "I want all who have a need for healing or anything else to come up to the front for prayer"......."and I want brother David to come pray for them"

That was me.

I was in shock as all I really was at the time was a pew sitter.(nominal believer...but newly on fire with the Holy Ghost all over me and in me)

I thought oh dear what on earth will happen when a joke like me prays for them????

Guess what? To my amazement they fell backwards like crazy. They went flying as I touched them!!!!
What was also amazing is that since they knew me,and my non-ministry background as a pew sitter,they did not appoint anyone to "catch" those that were flying backwards. I tried to grab them from the front but most were not "catchable" LOL,and just went splat on the carpet.

Don't tell me it is flesh,emotions,blah,blah,blah.

Brownsville and Rodney Howard were so awesome movements.

So many lives changed. The Holy laughter was mainly deliverance.

That same pastor that asked me to pray for folks is a close friend and we love each other. But in the early 90's we were in bitter conflict. Extreme resentments were ripping at both of us and we actually had some bitter confrontations.He even took shots at me from the platform in his preaching.

One of RHB's associates came to town to do some "revival" meetings. The pastor was reluctant because of the manifestations. That was an awesome time as the HS fell so heavily it was like you could feel the thickness of his presence in that church. Much,much Holy laughter.

One night,about the third or fourth night the pastor "got hit" and I saw him on the floor all dazed and bewildered. It made me laugh even harder.(he was always so dignified and poised). That instant,something broke between us. The resentment was replaced with a "love from heaven". Like turning on a switch,the whole bitterness melted away. We still love each other.
It was so radical.that I actually asked him about it,because I could FEEL THIS MAN'S DEEP LOVE FOR ME ALSO.
He said "I can tell you the day and the hour it happened". We both knew what he was talking about.

So don't tell me the Holy Laughter was not real. A thousand nuclear bombs could not have broken that deep resentment we had for each other.

Awesome testimony!

 

[Cruisyazz]

If these charismatic actions where done anywhere else or by anybody else most Christians would assume demons are in control.

 

[Willie-T]

the opinions i express below are based on my own detailed study of the charismatic 'manifestations'...

personally i think that possibly the holy spirit does occasionally produce the kinds of 'manifestations' that are frequently reported in charismatic groups...but i do not think this is the source of the majority of charismatic 'manifestations'

i -don't- think that many of the charismatic 'manifestations' are evil in the sense of being demonic...i think much of it can be more easily explained as deliberate acting and a credulousness in identifying everything as miraculous...the more extraordinary 'manifestations' can often be explained in terms of biology and psychology...

in other words we are mostly talking about the flesh...not the demonic... while the flesh is evil...it reduces these things to an instance of humans being human...not a move of satan...

I'm sorry, but this theory is COMPLETELY blown out of the water when you are not just looking on or "gawking at a spectacle", but actually know, and have known for years, some of the people affected. I have seen people I know to be so straight-laced that they would turn red with embarrassment if you told them the manufacturer's tag on their shirt or blouse was showing. I knew them for decades and hardly ever even saw them break a smile. Yet, there they were, totally abandoning their treasured "prim and proper" countenance........ and joyfully loving it.

 

[Willie-T]

Rachel,
It's clear you love the Lord. So I think I may know what's coming for you. What you are unwittingly setting yourself up for. He He.

I just wish I could be there when the Holy Spirit says "Oh yeah?" and you get the surprise of your life. It happened that way to both my wife and me who were staunch unbelievers in that emotional, theatrical nonsense. Yeah, like a lightning bolt out of the blue!...... while we were both just standing there, smugly laughing at all those deluded people under our breath.

 

[Willie-T]

If these charismatic actions where done anywhere else or by anybody else most Christians would assume demons are in control.

Yeah, the Pharisees sure did. They accused Jesus of working for the devil.

 

[atwhatcost]

If these charismatic actions where done anywhere else or by anybody else most Christians would assume demons are in control.

Pffft! I grew up when concerts cost one-two hours pay, not one-two weeks pay. T'ain't nothing I haven't seen at a concert, and, lo and behold, I was the one to get "slain." (I passed out and that's when I realized I'm a bit claustrophobic. lol)

Can anyone say "FREEBIRD!" (Anyone who's ever been to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert will recognize that guy in the audience. Even after they sang it, he just kept on shouting it. lol)

 

[Blain]

Before I posted this thread I didn't even know that Charismatic was a type of denomination let alone how often this denomination is ridiculed and seen as false which I can actually understand because I researched actual events in churches I saw ppl who were supposedly possess by a demon doing seizures and speaking in demonic voices and the pastor freeing them through means mainly of physical contact. Many would assume it was fake merely because that is the mind set they have already but I watched all these with an open heart and the only thing I knew was that I got a very uneasy feeling as watched many of these. Some were obviously staged as some ppl are just not meant to be actors but others you couldn't tell if they were acting or not but I still had a very uneasy feeling in my mid section, not my stomach but around there.

So far I have only seen these types of things involving demon possession healing and only one of tongues which honestly I wish I could remember how I found that one. I have seen how many ppl have actually become rich by doing this even getting hundreds to thousands of followers so it would be very easy to think the Charismatic is just a staged thing but even so if I truly believe anything is possible with God then I have no doubt God still does all these healings and demon possession freeing and even tongues although I doubt it would be made a big show like a lot of them. it is easy for the devil to make a mockery of the acts of God and getting ppl to doubt God's power by making all these fake staged and show like Charismatic things seems like something he would do. I have never seen a legit act of healing speaking in tongues freeing ppl from demons and all the things ppl think that God no longer does these days but I believe fully regardless because I believe in God's power

 

[maxwel]

Uh....... I'm pretty sure I clearly read where he said, "This is what I found."

Seriously?

Saying "this is what I found", without quotations, and without citations, doesn't really clarify ANYTHING.

The phrase is completely vague, ambiguous, and virtually meaningless.

Very often when people are doing their OWN RESEARCH, and they begin to explain their own research in their own words, they'll start off by saying "this is what I found".

The phrase "this is what I found" DOES NOT, and CANNOT, DENOTE MUCH OF ANYTHING.

Seriously Willie,
if I expect someone to simply be forthright, and clear, in an EXPECTED and NORMAL WAY...
I'M THE ONE WHO COMES UNDER ATTACK?

Seriously?

Expecting someone to CITE THEIR SOURCE isn't a sin.

It's pretty normal stuff.

 

[Kaycie]

God is the only audience of our worship- it must be how He wants it- not how we want it. No matter the religion, it must match the bible, otherwise it is a false doctrine, and false doctrines do not result in salvation. The bible says our worship must be done decently and orderly- how is that decent and in order? How is that women belong silent in worship? How is that one person speaking at a time? Charismatics say that miraculous miracles are still performed today, but that's not what the bible says. Christ only has twelve apostles. If they were here they would be over two thousand years old. And if they really claim that, why don't they go to the hospitals and set everyone free? Christ healed immediately and completely. How can one not see that this is not the church Jesus established with His blood?

 

[Willie-T]

Seriously?

Saying "this is what I found", without quotations, and without citations, doesn't really clarify ANYTHING.

The phrase is completely vague, ambiguous, and virtually meaningless.

Very often when people are doing their OWN RESEARCH, and they begin to explain their own research in their own words, they'll start off by saying "this is what I found".

The phrase "this is what I found" DOES NOT, and CANNOT, DENOTE MUCH OF ANYTHING.

Seriously Willie,
if I expect someone to simply be forthright, and clear, in an EXPECTED and NORMAL WAY...
I'M THE ONE WHO COMES UNDER ATTACK?

Seriously?

Expecting someone to CITE THEIR SOURCE isn't a sin.

It's pretty normal stuff.

You're really reaching.
I have probably 300 things on my computer that I might cite... but I honestly have no idea where many of them came from. I usually just say "I ran across this", or something like that. Even if I know the source, some of these authors are personal friends (I sometimes do some work for one of them), I often don't give their names because I know this crowd too well.... I just refer to them as friends, or sources.

Frankly, I believe we have to either be a little dense, or on a witch hunt, not to see when someone intentionally lets us know they are citing an outside source.

 

[maxwel]

You're really reaching.
I have probably 300 things on my computer that I might cite... but I honestly have no idea where many of them came from. I usually just say "I ran across this", or something like that. Even if I know the source, some of these authors are personal friends (I sometimes do some work for one of them), I often don't give their names because I know this crowd too well.... I just refer to them as friends, or sources.

Frankly, I believe we have to either be a little dense, or on a witch hunt, not to see when someone intentionally lets us know they are citing an outside source.

Willie,

1. Your opinion about whether or not someone is "reaching" has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

2.. How much stuff you have on your computer has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

3. The fact that YOU refuse to give honest sources, and honest citations...
that's indicative of your ethics, but it still has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

4. Using ad hominem attacks on me, and accusing me of being dense or on a witch hunt...
is once again, indicative of your ethics, but still has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

5. Blain didn't mark the quoted material in ANY WAY, and he didn't cite the source.
No matter how much you want to pretend he did... he simply didn't.
It isn't there.

6. All Blain needs to do, to clear everything up, is to CITE HIS SOURCE.
This isn't complicated.
This is very very simple.

There is no reason to be arguing at all.
All Blain needs to do is CITE HIS SOURCE.

Easy peasy.

Why argue over something so simple?

Are we trying to hide something?

If not, then cite the source.... and be done with it.

 

[ember]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone here, but this is not... a laughing matter:

Some of these manifestations in those Churches visited by Rodney Brown have also been seen happening among eastern pagan Hindu religious practices, but they call it Kundalini, things like uncontrollable shaking, laughing, rolling on the ground, etc.

Witness by an ex-Charismatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X1HC-3s3uI

Before brethren start to think these manifestations are from The Holy Spirit, they maybe should have those Charismatics try to explain why those manifestations also happen among eastern religious cults like Hinduism, etc., i.e., religions that do NOT recognize our Lord Jesus Christ as the ONLY Way of Salvation.

Furthermore, on the idea of speaking in tongues, the actual Acts 2 Scripture in the Greek reveals EVERYONE present on Pentecost UNDERSTOOD IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE DIALECTS what the Apostles were speaking! That means whatever region you come from, the very dialect of the language of that area manifested when you heard the Apostles speak by The Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

1 Tim 4:1-2
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
KJV

I have been ..call it Charasmatic if you want...since I was 18 and saved since 5

Why do you mention someone as contraversial as Rodney Brown?

Do you have any conception of how many folks actually speak in tongues and worship Jesus at the same time?

If we are going to talk about abuse, then please, let's not forget to whop on the Catholic Church and pediophile priests...and plenty of wrong doing in Baptist circels and every other denom that can be mentionned

it's a wild world and let's not forget, that demonic spirits can also castigate and make what is actually of God, as though it were demonic

That, is where discernement comes in

Get some today!

 

[RickyZ]

Willie,

1. Your opinion about whether or not someone is "reaching" has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

2.. How much stuff you have on your computer has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

3. The fact that YOU refuse to give honest sources, and honest citations...
that's indicative of your ethics, but it still has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

4. Using ad hominem attacks on me, and accusing me of being dense or on a witch hunt...
is once again, indicative of your ethics, but still has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

5. Blain didn't mark the quoted material in ANY WAY, and he didn't cite the source.
No matter how much you want to pretend he did... he simply didn't.
It isn't there.

6. All Blain needs to do, to clear everything up, is to CITE HIS SOURCE.
This isn't complicated.
This is very very simple.

There is no reason to be arguing at all.
All Blain needs to do is CITE HIS SOURCE.

Easy peasy.

Why argue over something so simple?

Are we trying to hide something?

If not, then cite the source.... and be done with it.

Anyone familiar with Blain knows how humble he is and that he is NOT given to theft including plagiarizing. Seems to me the source of his words is irrelevant.

What is relevant is why are you straining at a gnat?

This is what you get, once again, when people cruise posts looking for something negative to respond to, instead of thoughtfully considering WHAT WAS ACTUALLY BEING SAID/ASKED.

Now, got any comments on the charismatic movement or are you going to keep harping on a lost attribution?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Seriously?

Saying "this is what I found", without quotations, and without citations, doesn't really clarify ANYTHING.

The phrase is completely vague, ambiguous, and virtually meaningless.

Very often when people are doing their OWN RESEARCH, and they begin to explain their own research in their own words, they'll start off by saying "this is what I found".

The phrase "this is what I found" DOES NOT, and CANNOT, DENOTE MUCH OF ANYTHING.

Seriously Willie,
if I expect someone to simply be forthright, and clear, in an EXPECTED and NORMAL WAY...
I'M THE ONE WHO COMES UNDER ATTACK?

Seriously?

Expecting someone to CITE THEIR SOURCE isn't a sin.

It's pretty normal stuff.

maxwel, calm down, breathe and take a chill pill. When Blain said "this is what I found", he then went on in the next two paragraphs to tell us what he found. No he didn't cite a source as he should have, but neither do alot of others on here.. And Willie wasn't "attacking" you.. so relax, man..

 

[popeye]

God is the only audience of our worship- it must be how He wants it- not how we want it. No matter the religion, it must match the bible, otherwise it is a false doctrine, and false doctrines do not result in salvation. The bible says our worship must be done decently and orderly- how is that decent and in order? How is that women belong silent in worship? How is that one person speaking at a time? Charismatics say that miraculous miracles are still performed today, but that's not what the bible says. Christ only has twelve apostles. If they were here they would be over two thousand years old. And if they really claim that, why don't they go to the hospitals and set everyone free? Christ healed immediately and completely. How can one not see that this is not the church Jesus established with His blood?

Show me this powerless church,as you describe it,in the book of acts.Almost every chapter has miracles signs and wonders in it.

It is in fact your template of a powerless Jesus,and a weak body of Christ, that is nowhere to be found in the bible,except as apostate.

Christ only has twelve apostles.

Paul ,what was he?

 

[Willie-T]

Willie,

1. Your opinion about whether or not someone is "reaching" has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

2.. How much stuff you have on your computer has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

3. The fact that YOU refuse to give honest sources, and honest citations...
that's indicative of your ethics, but it still has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

4. Using ad hominem attacks on me, and accusing me of being dense or on a witch hunt...
is once again, indicative of your ethics, but still has nothing to do with Blain citing his sources.
Irrelevant.

5. Blain didn't mark the quoted material in ANY WAY, and he didn't cite the source.
No matter how much you want to pretend he did... he simply didn't.
It isn't there.

6. All Blain needs to do, to clear everything up, is to CITE HIS SOURCE.
This isn't complicated.
This is very very simple.

There is no reason to be arguing at all.
All Blain needs to do is CITE HIS SOURCE.

Easy peasy.

Why argue over something so simple?

Are we trying to hide something?

If not, then cite the source.... and be done with it.

Blain really doesn't "have to do" a thing just because your panties are in a wad at having been called-out for searching for insignificant things to be negatively picky about.

 

[VioletReigns]

So many folks just speculating.

When we were traveling back and forth to pensacola in the mid 90's for the Brownsville outpouring(awesome beyond words). We enjoyed such a powerful imparting every time we visited. people could see the change in our countenance,conversation,walk,and our deeds. We could not get that silly grin off our face.One night at our home church the pastor said "I want all who have a need for healing or anything else to come up to the front for prayer"......."and I want brother David to come pray for them"

That was me.

I was in shock as all I really was at the time was a pew sitter.(nominal believer...but newly on fire with the Holy Ghost all over me and in me)

I thought oh dear what on earth will happen when a joke like me prays for them????

Guess what? To my amazement they fell backwards like crazy. They went flying as I touched them!!!!
What was also amazing is that since they knew me,and my non-ministry background as a pew sitter,they did not appoint anyone to "catch" those that were flying backwards. I tried to grab them from the front but most were not "catchable" LOL,and just went splat on the carpet.

Don't tell me it is flesh,emotions,blah,blah,blah.

Brownsville and Rodney Howard were so awesome movements.

So many lives changed. The Holy laughter was mainly deliverance.

That same pastor that asked me to pray for folks is a close friend and we love each other. But in the early 90's we were in bitter conflict. Extreme resentments were ripping at both of us and we actually had some bitter confrontations.He even took shots at me from the platform in his preaching.

One of RHB's associates came to town to do some "revival" meetings. The pastor was reluctant because of the manifestations. That was an awesome time as the HS fell so heavily it was like you could feel the thickness of his presence in that church. Much,much Holy laughter.

One night,about the third or fourth night the pastor "got hit" and I saw him on the floor all dazed and bewildered. It made me laugh even harder.(he was always so dignified and poised). That instant,something broke between us. The resentment was replaced with a "love from heaven". Like turning on a switch,the whole bitterness melted away. We still love each other.
It was so radical.that I actually asked him about it,because I could FEEL THIS MAN'S DEEP LOVE FOR ME ALSO.
He said "I can tell you the day and the hour it happened". We both knew what he was talking about.

So don't tell me the Holy Laughter was not real. A thousand nuclear bombs could not have broken that deep resentment we had for each other.

I love our awesome Lord! \/

 

[VioletReigns]

I was visiting a friend's modest little church many years back. Instead of pews, they had about 50 or so metal folding chairs, a simple pulpit and a cassette player to play worship music we could sing along with. After the sermon, the pastor asked if anyone wanted to come forward for prayer for anything. Maybe 3 people went forward and all three folded right to the floor as the pastor touched them lightly.

I was agitated because I was a new Christian and it seemed rather phony to me. So I got out of my chair and went forward to see if the pastor could knock me down. I was determined not to let him. (Rebellious much?)

Anyhow, the closer I got to the pulpit, the stronger I felt the power of God. I mean physically felt it. Like trying to wade through a field of electricity! I was so scared, I turned tail and ran back to my chair. LOL

Since then, I have witnessed God do so many supernatural things in so many miraculous ways, I don't doubt the Lord's power for a split second. He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants to, however he purposes to do it. He doesn't need my approval or my belief, of that I'm now certain. \/ Our God reigns!

 

[Joidevivre]

Maybe calling it the Charismatic movement throws people off. Is that word even in the bible? All I know is that the Holy Spirit can and still does:

Uses our voice in worship and prayer - sometimes in a heavenly language.
Reveals His presence in a powerful way through healing.
Manifests His presence in such a way that sometimes we just can't stand in His presence.
Causes us to be filled with joy and we just need to laugh.
Brings us words of knowledge and revelations.
Gives us visions and dreams.
Fills us with supernatural love for others - even our enemies.
Brings our focus ever more deeply on Christ.
Implants in our spirits the great love the Father has for us. And we sometimes just have to cry.

How can anyone not want this? And we all have such need...