The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.

[Psalm1]

I never said I was a post-trib believer. I'm just telling you that I believe that the people being discussed in Matthew 24 are the ones still living on the earth during the tribulation period and how they will be sorted out when Jesus returns to earth at His second coming. If you believe in a pre-trib rapture, then you won't even be living on earth during the tribulation period, so you don't even have to worry about it, but I don't think you understand what I've already told you.

"Before the flood."
Jesus said it.

A gathering "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

It will never go away.

 

[Revelation1v8]

"Before the flood."
Jesus said it.

A gathering "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

It will never go away.

What are you saying happened before the flood? Jesus didn't remove Noah from the earth "before the flood", Noah road out the storm and the flood on earth until the his ark landed and then he restarted his life on earth. Noah was the good guy, the people who were swept away and killed in the flood were the wicked ones.

The only thing the Bible tells us about "before the flood" was that the wicked people were just carrying on with life as usual as though nothing was going to happen while Noah was building his ark.

 

[Psalm1]

What are you saying happened before the flood? Jesus didn't remove Noah from the earth "before the flood", Noah road out the storm and the flood on earth until the his ark landed and then he restarted his life on earth. Noah was the good guy, the people who were swept away and killed in the flood were the wicked ones.

The only thing the Bible tells us about "before the flood" was that the wicked people were just carrying on with life as usual as though nothing was going to happen while Noah was building his ark.

Nope.
Noah was gathered into the ark BEFORE THE FLOOD.
There is zero about anything of a Noah gathering after the flood.
And how ridiculous that would be .

You do realize that you need both Noah and Lot to be gathered post judgment ?

You do realize that both Noah and Lot, are pretrib gathering?

 

[Psalm1]

What are you saying happened before the flood? Jesus didn't remove Noah from the earth "before the flood", Noah road out the storm and the flood on earth until the his ark landed and then he restarted his life on earth. Noah was the good guy, the people who were swept away and killed in the flood were the wicked ones.

The only thing the Bible tells us about "before the flood" was that the wicked people were just carrying on with life as usual as though nothing was going to happen while Noah was building his ark.

50% gathered preflood neither fits Noah or your "wicked man pretrib rapture".

Instead a comprehensive reading with no omission tells a story way way different than what you are reading into it.

 

[OMC]

Take some Greek grammar and English classes, folks. You keep jumping on me over classic grade school issues, and frankly, I’m surprised we as a species have made it this far. Seriously.

 

[Psalm1]

Take some comprehension classed and invest in a dictionary.

You guys made it this far by changing the Bible.
Seriously lame

 

[Revelation1v8]

Nope.
Noah was gathered into the ark BEFORE THE FLOOD.
There is zero about anything of a Noah gathering after the flood.
And how ridiculous that would be .

You do realize that you need both Noah and Lot to be gathered post judgment ?

You do realize that both Noah and Lot, are pretrib gathering?

You could have saved us both a lot of time if you had just stated that in the beginning without your two or three word sentences.

Now we're back to what Jesus told His disciples about what happened to the people who were being "taken" in Matthew 24. We've already discussed this twice. What did He tell them in Luke 17:34-37?

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

In verse 37, Jesus is paralleling Revelation 19:17-21.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was TAKEN, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


So, when Luke 17:37 says that the Disciples asked Jesus, where are they taken? In my view it doesn't sound well based on how Jesus responded and what Revelation 19:20 says. Once again, because of how the verses in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are tied in with Revelation 19 makes me believe that this is ALL tied to tribulation judgement.

Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that there could be a pre-tribulation rapture before this judgement happens. That is my hope, but I don't call it a certainty. It just means that the ones who are taken may not be taken in the way you think they should be.

 

[Psalm1]

You could have saved us both a lot of time if you had just stated that in the beginning without your two or three word sentences.

Now we're back to what Jesus told His disciples about what happened to the people who were being "taken" in Matthew 24. We've already discussed this twice. What did He tell them in Luke 17:34-37?

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

In verse 37, Jesus is paralleling Revelation 19:17-21.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was TAKEN, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


So, when Luke 17:37 says that the Disciples asked Jesus, where are they taken? In my view it doesn't sound well based on how Jesus responded and what Revelation 19:20 says. Once again, because of how the verses in Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are tied in with Revelation 19 makes me believe that this is ALL tied to tribulation judgement.

Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't mean that I don't believe that there could be a pre-tribulation rapture before this judgement happens. That is my hope, but I don't call it a certainty. It just means that the ones who are taken may not be taken in the way you think they should be.

Then you could have saved lot of time and just said you are stuck on the wicked man pretrib rapture of half the earths population without your 50 word sentences.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Take some comprehension classed and invest in a dictionary.

You guys made it this far by changing the Bible.
Seriously lame

NOBODY is changing the Bible. It's all just a matter of interpretation, and if you do some research on this particular topic, there is much debate that has never come to a definite conclusion.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Then you could have saved lot of time and just said you are stuck on the wicked man pretrib rapture of half the earths population without your 50 word sentences.

If you had read my entire post, you would know that's not true. But I'm still not convinced that you understand what you're reading in the Bible or in my responses.

 

[OMC]

Then you could have saved lot of time and just said you are stuck on the wicked man pretrib rapture of half the earths population without your 50 word sentences.

At Christ’s coming, the “rapture” is simply the gathering of the saints: the dead in Christ are raised, the living are changed, and both meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:16–17), not before His coming but as part of it, while the wicked remain on the ground and are destroyed by the brightness of His appearing (2 Thess 2:8). After the resurrection of the righteous comes the resurrection of the wicked (John 5:28–29), and then the great white throne judgment where the final separation of righteous and wicked is carried out (Rev 20:11–15). The “thousand years” in Revelation 20 is John’s heaven‑side view of the present age: he sees souls, not resurrected bodies, reigning with Christ — the faithful dead alive with Him while the church age and tribulation unfold — and only at Christ’s return do they receive their perfected, resurrected bodies along with all the saints at the first resurrection (Rev 20:4–6).

 

[Psalm1]

NOBODY is changing the Bible. It's all just a matter of interpretation, and if you do some research on this particular topic, there is much debate that has never come to a definite conclusion.

" before", means before, every single time.
"One taken, one left" is a 50 - 50 ratio every time.
The group, half are taken out of, can not ever, and will not ever, be earth's entire population.

Once the facts are on the table, the theories must align with them.
Otherwise we can revert to criticizing ones Grammer and use condescension to somehow promote a bizarre theory.

Some here are apparently legends in thier own minds.

And rewrite the bible to protect their doctrine.

 

[Psalm1]

At Christ’s coming, the “rapture” is simply the gathering of the saints: the dead in Christ are raised, the living are changed, and both meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:16–17), not before His coming but as part of it, while the wicked remain on the ground and are destroyed by the brightness of His appearing (2 Thess 2:8). After the resurrection of the righteous comes the resurrection of the wicked (John 5:28–29), and then the great white throne judgment where the final separation of righteous and wicked is carried out (Rev 20:11–15). The “thousand years” in Revelation 20 is John’s heaven‑side view of the present age: he sees souls, not resurrected bodies, reigning with Christ — the faithful dead alive with Him while the church age and tribulation unfold — and only at Christ’s return do they receive their perfected, resurrected bodies along with all the saints at the first resurrection (Rev 20:4–6).

Glad you changed your view.
That doctrine of "wicked gathered first", is out of a workbook that was poorly thought out.

 

[Revelation1v8]

" before", means before, every single time.
"One taken, one left" is a 50 - 50 ratio every time.
The group, half are taken out of, can not ever, and will not ever, be earth's entire population.

Once the facts are on the table, the theories must align with them.
Otherwise we can revert to criticizing ones Grammer and use condescension to somehow promote a bizarre theory.

Some here are apparently legends in thier own minds.

And rewrite the bible to protect their doctrine.

So, in your view, who is the "group" that the half are taken out of?

 

[Psalm1]

If you had read my entire post, you would know that's not true. But I'm still not convinced that you understand what you're reading in the Bible or in my responses.

When you start of in put downs, when addressing anyone, they do not hear a word you are saying.
So I push back on every one of them.
Literally throw the garbage back in the rascal's face.

So yes, i really had no interest in whatever the rest of your post said.

Funny how that works.

 

[Psalm1]

So, in your view, who is the "group" that the half are taken out of?

It has to be a sub-group.
Can not be earths population.
Literally impossible.

2 word sentence included.

 

[OMC]

Glad you changed your view.
That doctrine of "wicked gathered first", is out of a workbook that was poorly thought out.

Dude you got a nasty habit of twisting peoples words.. I never said that!

 

[Revelation1v8]

When you start of in put downs, when addressing anyone, they do not hear a word you are saying.
So I push back on every one of them.
Literally throw the garbage back in the rascal's face.

So yes, i really had no interest in whatever the rest of your post said.

Funny how that works.

Only because you didn't want to read the scriptures I posted. You're not interested in what the Bible says, you only want to protect your belief and doctrine, just as you accuse the rest of us of doing.

 

[Revelation1v8]

It has to be a sub-group.
Can not be earths population.
Literally impossible.

2 word sentence included.

It sounds as if you're afraid to say where this subgroup comes from.

 

[Psalm1]

It sounds as if you're afraid to say where this subgroup comes from.

It is obviously the rapture.
Half the church stays behind.
Jesus tells us, only 10 or so sentences after mat 24 :41, that half the church is taken, in the virgin parable.

Otherwise? In the postribber model, you have 2 men in a bed, one is a demonic heathen with the mark, the other is an "on fire believer."

(Pretty far out there to make it work.)