Will you stick with the discussion until it resolves, or will you drop it on the way and leave me? bcs I don't like being told "byebye"
The Church Needs an Upgrade
- Thread starter Lafftur
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Matthew 28
"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Is not the message of the Gospel meant to be spread? And how can it be spread when it's followers hide away and isolated from the world?
To think it is somehow God's intention that His message be locked away by the few that hold it is religion. The very thing that killed Jesus.
Jesus himself did not set this presidence nor encourage this notion. Quite the opposite, his life was lived out in the open, among the world. Because it was the sick that needed a doctor, not the healthy.
Has it resolved?
If you are committed to discussing with me, I will hear your side of argument, sister/brother, but if you are just here to tell me your opinion and leave immediately, then I will not.
Yeah. I understand where you're coming from. I think the difference is the fact that you can't baptize people when they resist. For example here in Japan, less than 2% of population are considered Christian. Also
Matthew 24
12Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold.
13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
We're not in this time of tribulation atm. I'm of course not saying you shouldn't preach. God forbid, but I'm saying, in order to fulfill this particular prophecy, all nations have to be in perplexity (Luke 21), and people have to want Salvation. Yet there will be fake salvation with sorcery and false gospels, and that'll probably be the division between the condemned and the saved. Right now, people have an abundance of resources to live with, except perhaps those in poverty. So as of now, perhaps those poor will more easily receive and understand the gospel, but not the working class rest of the world. Most likely.
Oh, was this the question you mentioned? My apologies.
Well, I hope you let me ask you a question back, then. Is it lawful for me to freely murder a person in USA since it is a free country?
Ah we have a law against it,so no,free Country does not mean you yourself are free at all!! LOL Your free here as long as you obey the law of the land. Break it,and you will quickly be un free lol I am sorry you never saw the point of what I talked about.
I thought not. Of course not. Nobody likes murder. It is the same in the kingdom of God. A murder is sin, and it is not permitted. But by what?
What do you say, if "You shall not murder" is an old law now abolished, what does the "new law" you seem to talk about say on murder?
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
This new commandment you think is a "new law" is about love, and loving another is not a new concept. All the law and the prophets hang on LOVE."A new commandment" is not "a new law" is it? I request that you look through Hebrews 8 which you brought up to see if it says God would make a new law.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah;
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Was not the first covenant the written commandments on stone tablets? What was faulty was the covenant and NOT the law, for if you believe that the law was faulty, you'll have to call God a lier which he is not.
The law was perfect, which was the problem!! No one could possible follow it! Hence why Jesus had to come to fulfil it. So a new and better one could be founded that through the blood of Jesus all could endue it. Then Ten Commandments were a part of the Old Covenant. ( Exodus 34:28)
Many look to seperate the two,but that notion is wrong. Before the old Law was written no one was killed.( Gen 4:9-15) But the Jews themselves wanted law.They were a proud people,so God gave them what they wanted, and he was not happy about it either!!Where did the jews go wrong at excatly one may ask? I will show you.( Exodus 19:8!!!!) WE WILL DO!!!! Not follow!!! But do ourself!!!
By reading many of the Hebrew texts it would take a while to explain these words,but in the short term,what this meant was they wished to be judged by there own righteousness rather then take grace from God. Please read on from here.( Exodus 19:9-13) Now the Lord comes to Moses in a thick cloud,now the people will die if they touch or look to go up the Mountain! The fault on the first was that no one could fulfil it.
Many look to seperate the two,but that notion is wrong. Before the old Law was written no one was killed.( Gen 4:9-15) But the Jews themselves wanted law.They were a proud people,so God gave them what they wanted, and he was not happy about it either!!Where did the jews go wrong at excatly one may ask? I will show you.( Exodus 19:8!!!!) WE WILL DO!!!! Not follow!!! But do ourself!!!
By reading many of the Hebrew texts it would take a while to explain these words,but in the short term,what this meant was they wished to be judged by there own righteousness rather then take grace from God. Please read on from here.( Exodus 19:9-13) Now the Lord comes to Moses in a thick cloud,now the people will die if they touch or look to go up the Mountain! The fault on the first was that no one could fulfil it.
You stated it yourself. The Law is/was perfect. Without fault.
So how can HE, who made the perfect law, change the law? There is nothing to change. What changed was the COVENANT. From the heart of stone to the heart of flesh, Jesus Christ. Bcs the written commandments, no man was able to keep.
What Jesus does is to fulfill the law and not change a letter of it. Is there any mention of a "NEW LAW" in the Scripture?
This is true. They WERE the covenant, according to Exodus 34:10.
So I request for your feedback on this question: Are you saying that the word Covenant = Law? Bcs in that case, it'd mean the following.
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new LAW with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah;
Are you saying they are interchangeable?
Yes brother as you saw in scripture,the Old Covenant is the Old Law. And yes brother,did not Jesus fulfill the Old to bring all the new? Sure,at least to me. lol Col 2:14-18 Not only was Jesus nailed to the cross but also the Old covenant or law. To those who believe this.( Rom 10:4)
Alright then. I now request for your feedback on this question:
Matthew 5:18
For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
What do you think is "the Law" mentioned here in your opinion?
Yes brother ! UNTIL!!!! everything is accomplished. When Jesus said on the cross it is finished,he was not talking about his own death,he was speaking upon the end of the Old Covenant. This scripture is found early in every gospel,but you sure will never find this at the end of any gospel either. Of course brother you are free to believe whatever you wish.I have been in the Lord now for some 43 years,I still learn things everyday as well!
I then request for your feedback on THIS question:
Rev 21:1-2
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:5-6
5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.”
6And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.
Will you explain to me why Jesus says "it is finished" here?
Notice that this is really after the Tribulation and at the point of the creation of New Heaven and Earth.
...Or will you say that Crucifixion fulfilled this recreation too?
I see this as simple his for knowledge bro ( 1 Peter 1:2)And you cannot compare the two,they are 2 different events. One is for a better covenant, the other for for a new creation. It seems to me that God has completed this task as well,just because we cannot see this with our eyes now,does not mean he has to do anything more to complete.
I request that you look back on Matthew 5:18.
8For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
What law is Jesus talking about here that would remain until recreation?