The Complacent christian world.

[Red33]

That's just it. If you are truly doing God's will, thus posessing God's heart through His Spirit, you will operate in power. If not then you are not in God's will for God always provides the means in which to accomplish His will.

I don't believe that LBG is suggesting that we should question God's grace. What he is saying though is that we should search ourselves to see if we are truly living for God and being led by His Spirit or are we really living for ourselves doing what we think God would want us to do (ie. religion). There's a huge difference.

Do me a favor if you would. When you are the third person, don't speak for other as to what you think they mean, but allow them to speak for themselves. Thanks

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

You know when I was younger I went to a particular church. The emphasis was on scripture 100%

And if you asked a question you always got the absolutely perfect scriptural reply. I did at home too. And I grew up thinking that I must always act in perfect accordance with the 'perfect' answers I was constantly being given according to scripture. It became a great strain on my life, in the end I buckled beneath the strain and gave up with God.
It was strange though, the church never saw any power or healings, but firmly believed in the power of the Holy Spirit for today. And the church was maninly made up of the more academically gifted half of society.

When I was older I came back to God. I met a Christian couple who ran a soup kitchen and I used to go along with them and chat to the down and outs they befriended. They had that knack of being able to be totally at ease as they chatted to them, as if there was no barrier at all between the people they were helping and themselves.
They were much different from the people I had met at the church of my youth. They did not continually recite scripture and showed that they were just ordinary folk, and did not give the 'perfect response' to questions asked. I warmed to them and felt at ease in their company

One day we were at the soup kitchen and one of the alcoholics from the street was vomiting. He did a lot apparently due to alcohol abuse. The woman prayed with him and his vomitting stopped. I was amazed. These people did not continually reel off scripture, nor did they give an air of great Godliness. They were just plain ordinary folk who loved God.

It kinda made me think. Why did that church who recited the scriptures continuously, always gave you the perfect biblical response to every situation and seemed so Godly in appearance never see any power of the holy spirit manifest in their church as I saw in a soup kitchen from people who didn't constantly recite the scriptures or always give the percect Biblical response to a situation?


It makes you think doesn't it

I believe the difference between the groups to be that while the first group knew scripture, the second group "knew" the Master Himself.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Do me a favor if you would. When you are the third person, don't speak for other as to what you think they mean, but allow them to speak for themselves. Thanks

Why? We all as believers need to seek God's heart in everything we do. Do you think that you are somehow different or maybe even better? Need I remind you of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector?

 

[AnandaHya]

Definition of COMPLACENCY

1: self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies

2: an instance of usually unaware or uninformed self-satisfaction

I truly believe that my previous statement is an accurate assessment of christian complacency. We may think we are living for God, doing good deeds and doing our best not to break any of God's rules and basically doing what WE THINK God wants us to do. This is the worst thing we could possibly do because we are doing what WE BELIEVE God wants thus we are still being led by our flesh instead of taking the time and effort to seek out God's heart and leadership in the matter. If this is all you have than all you have is worthless religion.

We are to be lead by the Spirit not the flesh. I would rather have a handful of inexperienced teenagers who cry out to God earnestly seeking his presence and His will concerning a matter than a group of well educated pastors who on;y think and act according to their interpretation of the scriptures. This is exactly why we have so many different belief systems out there. Because we are doing what we think is best rather than knowing for certain what God wants.

YES YOUR WORDS COUNT! (just thought I'd add some scriptures to the conversation)


1 Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen

"Death and life are in the power of the tongue" Proverbs 18: 21 KJV

"For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned" Matthew 12: 37

Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."

"God is no mere human! he doesn't tell lies or change his mind. God always keeps his promises" Numbers 23: 19 CEV

Psalm 103: 20 NASB
"Bless the Lord, you His angels, Mighty in strength, who perform His word, Obeying the voice of His word!"

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart and they defile a man." Matthew 15:18

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her... Husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church." Matthew 15 vv 25, 28-29

"For I know the thought of the Lord thinks toward me-- thoughts of peace and not of evil to give me a future and a hope... Jeremiah 28:11

"My steps are ordered by the Lord, and He delights in my way" Psalm 37: 23

"Jesus only is my rock and my salvation. He is my defense for each day. I shall not be greatly moved" Psalm 62: 1-2

"I am so loved by Jesus and I love Him because He first loved me" 1 John 4: 19

 

[livingbygrace]

Definition of COMPLACENCY

1: self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies

2: an instance of usually unaware or uninformed self-satisfaction

I truly believe that my previous statement is an accurate assessment of christian complacency. We may think we are living for God, doing good deeds and doing our best not to break any of God's rules and basically doing what WE THINK God wants us to do. This is the worst thing we could possibly do because we are doing what WE BELIEVE God wants thus we are still being led by our flesh instead of taking the time and effort to seek out God's heart and leadership in the matter. If this is all you have than all you have is worthless religion.

We are to be lead by the Spirit not the flesh.I would rather have a handful of inexperianced teenagers who cry out to God earnestly seeking his prescence and his will concerning a matter than a group of well educated pastors who only think and act according to their interpretation of the scriptures. This is exactly why we have so many different belief systems out there. Because we are doing what we think is best rather than knowing for certain what God wants.

Great post

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Do me a favor if you would. When you are the third person, don't speak for other as to what you think they mean, but allow them to speak for themselves. Thanks

Actually Red, the principals that LBG and I have stated are principals that I have already embraced thus in all actuality it really does not refer to me. However, I am not foolish enough to believe that I am perfect in any way thus I do indeed need to be reminded of such principals from time to time. Besides I say "we" because "we" are the Body of Christ however, if you would like to exclude yourself then that is entirely up to you.

For the record, that last line was a joke...

 

[Red33]

Why? We all as believers need to seek God's heart in everything we do. Do you think that you are somehow different or maybe even better? Need I remind you of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector?

I asked you a favour and I would hope that you could honor that in the Lord. If you are offended in some way with my request then you don't have to respond and can go on to someone else. I think you have the maturity to be able to make that happen.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

YES YOUR WORDS COUNT! (just thought I'd add some scriptures to the conversation)


1 Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen

"Death and life are in the power of the tongue" Proverbs 18: 21 KJV

"For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned" Matthew 12: 37

Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."

"God is no mere human! he doesn't tell lies or change his mind. God always keeps his promises" Numbers 23: 19 CEV

Psalm 103: 20 NASB
"Bless the Lord, you His angels, Mighty in strength, who perform His word, Obeying the voice of His word!"

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart and they defile a man." Matthew 15:18

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her... Husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church." Matthew 15 vv 25, 28-29

"For I know the thought of the Lord thinks toward me-- thoughts of peace and not of evil to give me a future and a hope... Jeremiah 28:11

"My steps are ordered by the Lord, and He delights in my way" Psalm 37: 23

"Jesus only is my rock and my salvation. He is my defense for each day. I shall not be greatly moved" Psalm 62: 1-2

"I am so loved by Jesus and I love Him because He first loved me" 1 John 4: 19

Amen sis! I am reminded of Peters words at the gate called beautiful:

"Gold and Silver I have none but I what I have I freely give to you!"

What did Peter have? A vast knowledge of NT Scripture? No. The NT hadn't been written yet. What he had was the heart (Spirit) of God. He felt God's compassion toward this man and acted in faith that God's compassion wanted to heal this man. This kind of compassion can only come from a personal relationship with Christ within (the Holy Spirit) thus placing complete confidence in Him.

WE should never forget WHO not what should be our first love.

 

[livingbygrace]

Amen sis! I am reminded of Peters words at the gate called beautiful:

"Gold and Silver I have none but I what I have I freely give to you!"

What did Peter have? A vast knowledge of NT Scripture? No. The NT hadn't been written yet. What he had was the heart (Spirit) of God. He felt God's compassion toward this man and acted in faith that God's compassion wanted to heal this man. This kind of compassion can only come from a personal relationship with Christ within (the Holy Spirit) thus placing complete confidence in Him.

WE should never forget WHO not what should be our first love.

It is a privelege to read your posts, I am blessed by them. You know the heart of the Gospel and what really matters in Christianity. I hope that in some way you are able to share what you know with others, for there are so many starving souls who need to hear truth the Holy Spirit convicts the heart of, and not the man made theology which sadly is all too often prevelant

 

[zone]

We are to be lead by the Spirit not the flesh. I would rather have a handful of inexperienced teenagers who cry out to God earnestly seeking his presence and His will concerning a matter than a group of well educated pastors who on;y think and act according to their interpretation of the scriptures. This is exactly why we have so many different belief systems out there. Because we are doing what we think is best rather than knowing for certain what God wants.

um....would those inexperienced teenagers be under your shepherding?
how would they be discipled by you (or would they?)

how would they become 'experienced', in your view?

also: exactly what does God "want"?

 

[zone]

Why? We all as believers need to seek God's heart in everything we do. Do you think that you are somehow different or maybe even better? Need I remind you of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector?

which of these groups are you in, Fire?

I believe the difference between the groups to be that while the first group knew scripture, the second group "knew" the Master Himself.

how did you come to know The Master while others did not?

 

[Red33]

Definition of COMPLACENCY

1: self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies

2: an instance of usually unaware or uninformed self-satisfaction

I truly believe that my previous statement is an accurate assessment of christian complacency. We may think we are living for God, doing good deeds and doing our best not to break any of God's rules and basically doing what WE THINK God wants us to do. This is the worst thing we could possibly do because we are doing what WE BELIEVE God wants thus we are still being led by our flesh instead of taking the time and effort to seek out God's heart and leadership in the matter. If this is all you have than all you have is worthless religion.

We are to be lead by the Spirit not the flesh. I would rather have a handful of inexperienced teenagers who cry out to God earnestly seeking his presence and His will concerning a matter than a group of well educated pastors who on;y think and act according to their interpretation of the scriptures. This is exactly why we have so many different belief systems out there. Because we are doing what we think is best rather than knowing for certain what God wants.

You opened your mouth and made the statement. Now back it up and go do it. Prove all things and let's see what happens. Anybody can make statements but to back it up and actually do it and get some fruit is a whole other thing. You may have meant well, but I think that you will find that what you perceive in the heart of those teens you have described has not been tested and you would find out in a hurry when the tests come and realize the difference between unproven earnest sincerity and proven maturity (perfection).

Look at the disciples who were with the Lord Jesus Christ, for three years, under His daily teaching of the word and doctrine. They were unlearned men and had all kinds of problems with unbelief, with His doctrine, His parables, His ministry, the cross, with grace, with forgiveness and they all ended up forsaking Him and going back to their fishing boats. They had to be tested and their faith had to be tried over and over and they lived in the presence of God and some did not even know that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh as the Son of God.

Then God sends a persecute of the church, who was a Pharisee, and they have to accept him and the grace that eventually made him the chief of the apostles. They had to hear what he had to say and extend to him the right hand of fellowship, when he was responsibly for having many of the brethren killed, including the stoning of Stephen. I don't think you teens would be ready for some of this stuff that might befall them. Remember that a novice can easily fall into the condemnation of the devil and when that happens they could fall away. You have youthful lust issues and all kinds of desires they have that could be easily taken advantage of by the devil. And all of your holiness is not going to convert them into powerful dynamos.

 

[livingbygrace]

Definition of COMPLACENCY

We are to be lead by the Spirit not the flesh. I would rather have a handful of inexperienced teenagers who cry out to God earnestly seeking his presence and His will concerning a matter than a group of well educated pastors who on;y think and act according to their interpretation of the scriptures.

This is very true. But if a well educated pastor read this quote, or someone who had striven to interpret the scriptures and believed they had gained much knowledge and understanding of them by their own efforts, rather than totally relying on the Holy Spirit for the truth therein, and if such a person believed they by their own efforts were an authority on scripture, I am sure they would be most upset by your comment, and would take great offence by it

 

[AnandaHya]

God transforms lives, no man will or effort can take away HIS Grace and divine guidance through the Holy Spirit.

Some people just like learning that fire burns by sticking their hands in the fire. Some have faith when an elder tells them its not a good idea, they don't go and stick it in the fire to find out if its true that it will burn them.

we are given free will to chose which path we prefer, but it is God who saves. nit all.

 

[Red33]

This is very true. But if a well educated pastor read this quote, or someone who had striven to interpret the scriptures and believed they had gained much knowledge and understanding of them by their own efforts, rather than totally relying on the Holy Spirit for the truth therein, and if such a person believed they by their own efforts were an authority on scripture, I am sure they would be most upset by your comment, and would take great offence by it

Or you may be dealing with one that has experience in these matters and has learned through that experience the many things that befall a young person in their earnest zeal for God, especially when they do not have the covering of a local assembly and a pastor-teacher that has been put through the fire. Teenagers go through all kinds of things and they have to have good parents and a good body of Spirit-filled loving believers that are mature in the love of God and have good discernment. They also must be very patient and loving in dealing with teens and be a very stable and fruitful in the things of God. These things are very necessary and even then there is no guarantees because of the foolishness bound up in the youthful heart.

 

[pickles]

When will we see, that nothing can be claimed as ones own doing.
Everything is Gods creation, His knowladge, His understanding, His truth, His grace given, faith, hope, love , all is His creation and gift to us.
God does what pleases Him.
One can study, learn, pray, do all these things.
But none of it is of value, unless all is recieved and served in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit.
Everything, is given in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit that is good and fruitful.
We can make every effort, but unless one is in Jesus, there is no fruit.
All is to the glory of God!!!

in Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[livingbygrace]

Look at the disciples who were with the Lord Jesus Christ, for three years, under His daily teaching of the word and doctrine. They were unlearned men and had all kinds of problems with unbelief, with His doctrine, His parables, His ministry, the cross, with grace, with forgiveness and they all ended up forsaking Him and going back to their fishing boats. They had to be tested and their faith had to be tried over and over and they lived in the presence of God and some did not even know that Jesus was God manifest in the flesh as the Son of God.

What made the difference for the disciples was Pentecost

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all the nations, begining at Jerusalem
And ye are witnesses of these things
And behold I send the promise of my Father upon you but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem until ye be enabled WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH
Luke 24:47-49

And these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; trhey shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover
Mark:16:17&18

Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking but the Holy Spirit
Mark:13:11

And I will ask the Father and he will give you another counsellor to be with you forever-the spirit of truth
John 14:16

But the counsellor the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name will teach you all things and will remind you of all the things I have said to you
John 14:26

But when the spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all truth

John 16:13

Now to him who is able to do immesurably more than all we ask or imagine according to his POWER(the Holy Spirit) that is at work within us

Eph 3:20

My grace is sufficient for you, for MY POWER is made perfect in weakness
Therefore I will boast all the more about my weaknesses,. so that Christ's power may rest on me
2 Cor 10:8&9

I can do everything through him who gives me strength
Phil 4:13

Jesus returned to Gallee in THE
POWER OF THE SPIRIT
Luke 4:14

Then God sends a persecute of the church, who was a Pharisee, and they have to accept him and the grace that eventually made him the chief of the apostles. They had to hear what he had to say and extend to him the right hand of fellowship, when he was responsibly for having many of the brethren killed, including the stoning of Stephen. I don't think you teens would be ready for some of this stuff that might befall them. Remember that a novice can easily fall into the condemnation of the devil and when that happens they could fall away. You have youthful lust issues and all kinds of desires they have that could be easily taken advantage of by the devil. And all of your holiness is not going to convert them into powerful dynamos.

And afterwards I will pour out my spirit on all people
Your sons and daughters will prophesy
Your old men will dream dreams
your young men will see visions
Even on my servants both men and women
I will pour out my spirit in those days
I will show wonders in the Heavens and on the earth
blood and fire and billows of smoke
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord

Joel 2:28-31

The Holy Spirit is the power the Christian has on this earth, and the spirit is available to all who will receive him.

We have not received the spirit of the world but the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words
The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God for thery are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them for they are spiritually discerned
1 Cor 2:12-14

The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you
John 14:17

But how many Christians will abandon the desire for self knowledge and self understanding and and entrust themselves to Christ and the Holy Spirit within

And how many read up on the great theologians and scholars because they believe they were mightily led of the Holy Spirit, and how many read up on them because they have great earthly intellect and reasoning?

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight

1 Cor 3:19

God can use a sincere teenager who in their heart cries out to him and is filled with the spirit far more than he can use someone who has relied on their own intellect to understand the truth of God's word, it is no contest

 

[livingbygrace]

When will we see, that nothing can be claimed as ones own doing.
Everything is Gods creation, His knowladge, His understanding, His truth, His grace given, faith, hope, love , all is His creation and gift to us.
God does what pleases Him.
One can study, learn, pray, do all these things.
But none of it is of value, unless all is recieved and served in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit.
Everything, is given in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit that is good and fruitful.
We can make every effort, but unless one is in Jesus, there is no fruit.
All is to the glory of God!!!

in Jesus, God bless.
pickles

Amen Pickles

To God be alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the glory

 

[AnandaHya]

When will we see, that nothing can be claimed as ones own doing.
Everything is Gods creation, His knowladge, His understanding, His truth, His grace given, faith, hope, love , all is His creation and gift to us.
God does what pleases Him.
One can study, learn, pray, do all these things.
But none of it is of value, unless all is recieved and served in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit.
Everything, is given in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit that is good and fruitful.
We can make every effort, but unless one is in Jesus, there is no fruit.
All is to the glory of God!!!

in Jesus, God bless.
pickles

Pickles your words are like a ray of sunshine thanks for posting, I always enjoy reading anything you write

lol I wished I could say the same about myself but some days I just feel stormy

But rain or shine we should all Praise GOD's HOLY NAME

YouTube - "I Know You're There" - Casting Crowns

 

[Red33]

When will we see, that nothing can be claimed as ones own doing.
Everything is Gods creation, His knowladge, His understanding, His truth, His grace given, faith, hope, love , all is His creation and gift to us.
God does what pleases Him.
One can study, learn, pray, do all these things.
But none of it is of value, unless all is recieved and served in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit.
Everything, is given in Jesus, through the Holy Spirit that is good and fruitful.
We can make every effort, but unless one is in Jesus, there is no fruit.
All is to the glory of God!!!

in Jesus, God bless.
pickles

Do you believe in the local assembly, that the Lord Jesus Christ has prepared for believers, is given to believers to hear the word of God preached and to be taught doctrine, to have fellowship and unity with members of Christ's body, so they can be exercised in their priesthood corporately, to train up disciples to go into the world and preach the gospel of Christ, to seek and win the lost and to do the work that God has ordained for that local assembly and to bring forth fruit unto God? And in all this they acknowledge and worship Jesus Christ as the head, they honor, obey and pray for those that God has put over them in the Lord and they are lead by the Holy Spirit in that local assembly to be a joint participate and give of their supply to be edified and built up with others as it edifies itself in the love of God, and to be faithful in that calling until the Lord comes back for the church.

OR... do you believe in being an independent individual believer that lives unto the Lord with their own understanding they get from the scriptures and through the Spirit that is not required by grace or through any instructions of the scriptures to honor the local assembly or those that God has raised up for the church to preach and teach the word and doctrine? Do you put Christ first and then your family and the local assembly last, providing you can trust that there is one available in your local area but as soon as you see something you don't like or agree with you run back and become critical of the local assembly?

We are to keep our eye upon Christ and serve Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, but isn't he leading us through the Spirit to gather ourselves together unto Him with other believers that He has redeemed that we might have fellowship with Christ that lives in them? Doesn't each member of Christ's body have a supply of the Spirit that we need so that we can be filled with what we might lack and so that we can comprehend the many dimensions of the love of God? In the gospels we have the disciples and many others that gathered unto Christ daily to hear the word and after the gospels, don't we have the scriptures that testify and letters that have been written to the local churches and assemblies where believers gathered together with qualified men that were sent to preach and teach in Rome, Galatia Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, Colosse, Thessalonica, including those in homes, the Jews that were scattered abroad and those local churches that were revealed in the Revelation given to John?

Why is it that we have so many believers today that profess the Lord Jesus Christ yet have no local assembly (a living organism made up of Christ's body, flesh and bones) to gather with others as they did in the book of Acts that led to the establishment of local assemblies where ever God was adding to the church? Why have so many been critical of the local church and have decided to never be a part of one that they like to label as 'a building' or some 'organized church'. God has prepared a body for them but they will not recognize that body and do not take seriously through conviction that we are members one of another and of His body, flesh and bones. This very much puzzles me that believers think that they are in the will of God outside the local assembly, outside of what God has prepared for them and outside the dispensing of the word and doctrine of Christ that is given for worship and where the Holy Spirit is active in the corporate body and in the members of those that make up that corporate body.

Pickles, what is in your heart concerning these matters and is not the Christ that you seek to glorify living as the head of the body, does He not desire in His heart that we gather together as one body, did not He gather the disciples unto Himself and teach them as a body of believers and did He not send them out to do the same? We will not be gathered unto Him when we are taken up into heaven to be with Him? When we do not gather ourselves together in a local assembly of believers, we are not gathering ourselves unto Christ, the head, and we do not allow Jesus Christ to reveal Himself to us as the head. If Christ is not experiencially our head how can we say that we are led of His Spirit? Those that do not gather together scatter abroad. When you look at those who do not gather together unto Jesus Christ in the local assembly are they not an example of those that are scattered abroad? Could not this be considered complacency concerning the local assembly of the church and complacency toward the head of that church, CHRIST?