The conversion of the Philippian Jailer in Acts 16.

[Lamar]

I am surprised you think water baptism saves?
The remission of sin was accomplished at the cross by Christ Jesus, not by the ritual of water baptism.

I wrote no such thing.

My answer to your question was "no". What is wrong with you? Are you so deep into Faith Alone Regeneration Theology that you cannot see what I clearly wrote?

If the remission of sins is not accomplished during the "pledge of a good conscience" during baptism then Peter was wrong.
If the remission of sins is accomplished simply because of the events at the cross then that is Universalism.

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is a theology without an example.

I am still waiting on your "yes" or "no" answer to my question. Will you answer?

 

[mailmandan]

I am surprised you think water baptism saves?
The remission of sin was accomplished at the cross by Christ Jesus, not by the ritual of water baptism.

Amen! Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 - To open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

 

[HeIsHere]

I wrote no such thing.

My answer to your question was "no". What is wrong with you? Are you so deep into Faith Alone Regeneration Theology that you cannot see what I clearly wrote?

If the remission of sins is not accomplished during the "pledge of a good conscience" during baptism then Peter was wrong.
If the remission of sins is accomplished simply because of the events at the cross then that is Universalism.

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is a theology without an example.

I am still waiting on your "yes" or "no" answer to my question. Will you answer?

I do not think there is anything wrong with me but I will do back and reread.

 

[Lamar]

Amen! Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 - To open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

If faith alone is absolutely the only thing required for the remission of sins then we would expect Jesus to use such verbiage but He clearly does not.

If you are able to quote such a verse I would be happy to read it. You can even quote another person beside Jesus in the Bible that uses such verbiage as "faith alone'. I will even accept other verbiage such as:

"faith only"
"individually faith"
"uniquely faith"
"entirely faith"
"wholly faith"
"purely faith"
"merely faith"
"singly faith"
"completely faith"
"uniquely faith"
"exclusively faith"
"single-handedly faith"
"solely faith"
"totally faith"

You can use any version of the Bible you wish.
You can even use a Bible in another language.

But please, pushers of Faith Alone Regeneration Theology show at least one example of this most paramount part of your theology.
If you cannot, stop trying to shoehorn "faith alone" into the scriptures.

 

[mailmandan]

If faith alone is absolutely the only thing required for the remission of sins then we would expect Jesus to use such verbiage but He clearly does not.

If you are able to quote such a verse I would be happy to read it. You can even quote another person beside Jesus in the Bible that uses such verbiage as "faith alone'. I will even accept other verbiage such as:

"faith only"
"individually faith"
"uniquely faith"
"entirely faith"
"wholly faith"
"purely faith"
"merely faith"
"singly faith"
"completely faith"
"uniquely faith"
"exclusively faith"
"single-handedly faith"
"solely faith"
"totally faith"

You can use any version of the Bible you wish.
You can even use a Bible in another language.

But please, pushers of Faith Alone Regeneration Theology show at least one example of this most paramount part of your theology.
If you cannot, stop trying to shoehorn "faith alone" into the scriptures.

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.

*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)

Works-salvationists need to stop trying to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6)

 

[Lamar]

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.

*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)

Works-salvationists need to stop trying to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6)

Jesus:
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

No shoehorn here.
**************************************************************************************************************************************
You:
"Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation."

"In order of figure out" ??? You most certainly do.

Shoehorn!

You are so blinded by your allegiance to Faith Alone Regeneration Theology that you cannot see the amount of surmising needed to believe such foolery.

Why not shoehorn "alone" to James 1:27?
If not, why not?

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus:
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

No shoehorn here.

Jesus clarifies the first clause of Mark 16:16 with the second - but he who does not believe will be condemned. So, the first clause is general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized.

So, the omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned." It's time for you to put down your shoehorn and BELIEVE.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You:
"Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation."

"In order of figure out" ??? You most certainly do.

Wow! So, you cannot figure out that in each of those passages of scripture I previously cited that the words "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation? What additions or modifications along with the words "belief/faith" do you see in those passages of scripture?

You are so blinded by your allegiance to Faith Alone Regeneration Theology that you cannot see the amount of surmising needed to believe such foolery.

It's actually you who is blinded by your allegiance to Campbellism theology that keeps you from believing the gospel and speaking of foolery, see (1 Corinthians 1:18-21).

Prior to my conversion several years, I had temporarily attended the so called church of Christ and I understand their absolute obsession with water baptism and I also understand how they try to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works, so none of your arguments are anything new or enlightening.

Why not shoehorn "alone" to James 1:27?
If not, why not?

James 1:27 is not about how one becomes saved, so there is no issue here with salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. James 1:26 - If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. This man's religion is vain, empty, devoid of power, lacking in content, nonproductive, dead and of no eternal value.

James 1:27 - Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

There is nothing wrong with "pure and undefiled religion" but there is certainly something wrong with impure and defiled religion.

 

[PaulThomson]

That is fine and I understand this completely.
But you were fully and completely saved/regenerated/justified/redeemed before you were baptized.

That was not my question. I agree that disobedience to Jesu commands does not automatically condemn us to hell. Would it have been disobedience for me to refuse baptism after reading the New Testament?

 

[TrustandObey]

Most biblical scholars agree that Mark 16:16, along with verses 9-20, were added to the scripture later and were not part of the original text written by Mark; they are considered a later addition, often referred to as the "longer ending" of Mark's Gospel

I am not going to discuss if this is disobedience.

My one and only point is baptism does not save and is not required for salvation.
End of Story.

Baptismal regeneration is a made up doctrine and Christians (those who are born again the way scripture clearly teaches) should decry anything that adds to the simple Gospel.

Do you love your theology so much that you are willing to cast doubt on the Bible itself?!

This is shocking. I sense that you are of this mindset and if true, you have crossed a line with no ability to go back.

The insistence that faith alone theology must be accepted as the place and time for the remission of sins in place of baptism is the "adding to the simple Gospel" that you are decrying.

 

[HeIsHere]

Faith Alone Regeneration Theology is a theology without an example.

Faith + Works = No salvation


Paul clearly preached that faith is the instrument of salvation... it is who we place our faith IN that saves.

Jesus Saves.....He is the object of our faith.

 

[HeIsHere]

Do you love your theology so much that you are willing to cast doubt on the Bible itself?!

This is shocking. I sense that you are of this mindset and if true, you have crossed a line with no ability to go back.

The insistence that faith alone theology must be accepted as the place and time for the remission of sins in place of baptism is the "adding to the simple Gospel" that you are decrying.

The Bible is clear.

8 For by grace (alone ) are ye saved through faith (alone no works) and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It cannot be earned.

 

[HeIsHere]

If faith alone is absolutely the only thing required for the remission of sins then we would expect Jesus to use such verbiage but He clearly does not.

Faith alone means no works ... it is the object of our faith who saves. Christ Jesus.

 

[shittim]

Not earned it is an unmerited gift. Faith requires action, we are commanded to heal, raise, cleanse preach, etc.
Mere mental assent to His existence can miss the mark.
Jesus taught in these last days most would hold to an outward form of Godliness denying the power, His Own would do greater works than He.
Is an outward form Christian even saved? I have doubts they are. Paul spoke of working out our salvation with fer and trembling, I don't see that among those who claim to be Christian.
blessings

 

[HeIsHere]

Jesus clarifies the first clause of Mark 16:16 with the second - but he who does not believe will be condemned. So, the first clause is general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized.

So, the omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned." It's time for you to put down your shoehorn and BELIEVE.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Wow! So, you cannot figure out that in each of those passages of scripture I previously cited that the words "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation? What additions or modifications along with the words "belief/faith" do you see in those passages of scripture?

It's actually you who is blinded by your allegiance to Campbellism theology that keeps you from believing the gospel and speaking of foolery, see (1 Corinthians 1:18-21).

Prior to my conversion several years, I had temporarily attended the so called church of Christ and I understand their absolute obsession with water baptism and I also understand how they try to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works, so none of your arguments are anything new or enlightening.

James 1:27 is not about how one becomes saved, so there is no issue here with salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. James 1:26 - If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. This man's religion is vain, empty, devoid of power, lacking in content, nonproductive, dead and of no eternal value.

James 1:27 - Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

There is nothing wrong with "pure and undefiled religion" but there is certainly something wrong with impure and defiled religion.

If anything, this thread has demonstrated to me how the Gospel of salvation through Christ Jesus and HIS work is under serious attack.

The attack on the sufficiency of Christ, to save and keep saved, in subtle and not so subtle ways .... RED flag.

 

[HeIsHere]

It is not a made up doctrine. Instead, it is the answer of a good conscience towards God (1 Pet. 3:21-22), and you and several others here apparently do not know what that means.

Wow!

 

[HeIsHere]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

"Washing of regeneration" is not water regeneration.

 

[HeIsHere]

Baptism was the moment and place that the blood of Jesus caused the remission of my sins.

Are we talking about water baptism here?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Can anyone show me where it is stated that faith alone saves a person? Paul said persons believe into righteousness with their hearts, which is not salvation. And they acknowledge into salvation with their mouth. So it's not just faith alone; acknowledgement that Jesus is lord is also required to be saved. And baptism is acknowledgment that Jesus is lord.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth acknowledgement is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10​

There’s real doctrine about baptism plain stuff but many won’t hear it it’s really well explained

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

many wont hear it , because they already reject baptism , so any real doctrine explaining what it means for us and how it effects us through faith doesn’t ever make any sense. Or build up understanding

if I reject baptism up front all the doctrine about it becomes useless , if I reject communion up front all the doctrine about it becomes useless ect

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Are we talking about water baptism here?

yeah baptism is performed in water in Jesus name after you believe like this

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

( nothing is stopping him he believes and is near some water why can’t he be baptized ?)

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭

theres just baptism it happens to be performed in water. Like above there when they started preaching Jesus and the gospel and people began to believe and get baptized in his name for remission of sins

 

[HeIsHere]

yeah baptism is performed in water in Jesus name after you believe like this

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

( nothing is stopping him he believes and is near some water why can’t he be baptized ?)

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭

theres just baptism it happens to be performed in water. Like above there when they started preaching Jesus and the gospel and people began to believe and get baptized in his name for remission of sins

So water baptism brings the remission of sins, the person on his death bed or any other person who is unable to be baptized (people in jail etc.,) will not receive remission of sins because they will not have the opportunity to be baptized?

Is this what you are saying?