The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation
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My point was the reference to water baptism in that chapter indicates water baptism was part of Paul's message.
The following concerns the scripture you use to justify your position that baptism is not a requirement for salvation:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8
Saved THROUGH faith. Meaning acting in faith to what God says brings the result He deems. "...Be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin..." (Acts 2:38) Having one's sin remitted is essential for salvation.
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28
Obedience to the NT command of water baptism in the name of Jesus is not part of the law. It is an act of faith.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6
Notice Paul stresses a specific point in verse 5, IF we have been planted together in the likeness of Jesus' death we shall also be in the the likeness of His resurrection. As such, obedience to water baptism is essential for salvation.
The following concerns the scripture you use to justify your position that baptism is not a requirement for salvation:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8
Saved THROUGH faith. Meaning acting in faith to what God says brings the result He deems. "...Be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sin..." (Acts 2:38) Having one's sin remitted is essential for salvation.
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28
Obedience to the NT command of water baptism in the name of Jesus is not part of the law. It is an act of faith.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6
Notice Paul stresses a specific point in verse 5, IF we have been planted together in the likeness of Jesus' death we shall also be in the the likeness of His resurrection. As such, obedience to water baptism is essential for salvation.
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No he didn't. Think about how stupid that is. He spent half the letter correcting everything they were doing wrong; only to glaze over that kind of malpractice? That's ridiculous, and you know it is.
O-P's stole baptismal regeneration doctrine from Tertulllian- and when they did, they also took his wrong explanation of that verse from chapter 15.
O-P's stole baptismal regeneration doctrine from Tertulllian- and when they did, they also took his wrong explanation of that verse from chapter 15.
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“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
Luke 15:1
“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.””
Luke 6:36-38
if you look at Jesus doctrine he knows we arent going to be perfect so he’s provided mercy in regards to judgement
forgive others who sin against you ….. and his word promises forgivness. Don’t judge other sinners and condemn them if you aren’t perfect either , and you won’t be judged and condemned ….what makes this significant is it’s the words of the eternal judge
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
If you understand how this can help save a sinner who isn’t perfect yet then it begins to make sense why Jesus was always saying “ listen to what I’m saying and believe me trust me and follow after me Keep my word “ because he was teaching things like that that are going to be true come judgement
“ grace” is mutual and this is how we can walk confidently towards judgement if we show mercy towards others but if we don’t ?
“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:12-
If you look for instance at Roman’s 2 you might see this
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11
This sounds like that’s all there is to it but Paul’s actually teaching them to stop judging one another and condemning one another because by doing that they are heaping up wrath against themselves come the day of judgement .
“So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.”
Romans 2:3-5 NIV
We can judge not and not be judged we can not condemn and be not condemned we can forgive and be forgiven we can give and it will be given moreso we can be merciful to others and then our judgement will be according to tbat mercy we showed but shaken and stirred and over running portions in return.
a there’s a parable about how god forgives us up front but then of we go out and won’t forgive others and show mercy as he’s done for us , we have to go face the judge according to that mercy we didn’t show others
Luke 15:1
“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.””
Luke 6:36-38
if you look at Jesus doctrine he knows we arent going to be perfect so he’s provided mercy in regards to judgement
forgive others who sin against you ….. and his word promises forgivness. Don’t judge other sinners and condemn them if you aren’t perfect either , and you won’t be judged and condemned ….what makes this significant is it’s the words of the eternal judge
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
If you understand how this can help save a sinner who isn’t perfect yet then it begins to make sense why Jesus was always saying “ listen to what I’m saying and believe me trust me and follow after me Keep my word “ because he was teaching things like that that are going to be true come judgement
“ grace” is mutual and this is how we can walk confidently towards judgement if we show mercy towards others but if we don’t ?
“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:12-
If you look for instance at Roman’s 2 you might see this
“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
Romans 2:6-11
This sounds like that’s all there is to it but Paul’s actually teaching them to stop judging one another and condemning one another because by doing that they are heaping up wrath against themselves come the day of judgement .
“So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.”
Romans 2:3-5 NIV
We can judge not and not be judged we can not condemn and be not condemned we can forgive and be forgiven we can give and it will be given moreso we can be merciful to others and then our judgement will be according to tbat mercy we showed but shaken and stirred and over running portions in return.
a there’s a parable about how god forgives us up front but then of we go out and won’t forgive others and show mercy as he’s done for us , we have to go face the judge according to that mercy we didn’t show others
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“Paul questioned why people who said they didn't believe in the resurrection were getting water baptized for those who did not get baptized prior to death.”
“Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?”
1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
I wouldn’t say it’s stupid I’d say it’s accurate that’s exactly what Paul was doing. He’s arguing for the resurrection the whole chapter and uses that point “ if you don’t even believe there is a resurrection why then are people baptized for those already dead ?
“But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.””
1 Corinthians 15:12-14, 16-19, 29-30, 32 NIV
hes sayong in n a long statement “ if we do t believe in the resurrection Jesus promised us we’re wasting our lives and everything we do believing a lie and fantasy that’s not going to work because we just die and that’s it there’s no resurrection or eternal life …..he’s asking them “ if there’s no resurrection how is it going to help a dead man by getting baptized for him …..he’s already dead and isn’t going to be raised up … if there’s no resurrection
There were some who weren’t believing in the resurrection probably the sect of sadducees had corrupted thoer thinking or had converted and brought ignorance of the resurrection into the mix
“(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)”
Acts 23:8 NIV
“Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?”
1 Corinthians 15:29 NIV
I wouldn’t say it’s stupid I’d say it’s accurate that’s exactly what Paul was doing. He’s arguing for the resurrection the whole chapter and uses that point “ if you don’t even believe there is a resurrection why then are people baptized for those already dead ?
“But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.””
1 Corinthians 15:12-14, 16-19, 29-30, 32 NIV
hes sayong in n a long statement “ if we do t believe in the resurrection Jesus promised us we’re wasting our lives and everything we do believing a lie and fantasy that’s not going to work because we just die and that’s it there’s no resurrection or eternal life …..he’s asking them “ if there’s no resurrection how is it going to help a dead man by getting baptized for him …..he’s already dead and isn’t going to be raised up … if there’s no resurrection
There were some who weren’t believing in the resurrection probably the sect of sadducees had corrupted thoer thinking or had converted and brought ignorance of the resurrection into the mix
“(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)”
Acts 23:8 NIV
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Vicarious baptisms ? I’m not sure what you mean by that
I was just saying if a person reads the whole section it’s sort of obvious what he’s saying there . But I’m alright if you think I’m wrong no offense taken or anything I’m just not sure why we wouldnt agree on what it says but that happens sometimes
Im curious what you mean by vicarious baptisms ?
aim not arguing for that as doctrine that we should be getting baptized for the dead or anything like that , I was just saying if we look at what Paul’s speaking about there and read the whole section it seems like part of the same thing he’s been talking about before and after also like it’s just part of the statement he’s addressing because some didn’t believe in the resurrection
My opinion for what it’s worth is if we look at the subject matter and read the whole thing it’s not controversial why he’s saying it
“Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?”
1 Corinthians 15:12 KJV
i think Paul is addressing that issue among them and that’s why he begins using rhetorical sentences to show his point as he co rubies he keeps returning to the matter “ if there’s no resurrection what are we doing all this for”
I’m just saying I think that’s the only reason he even speaks of it there it is t a baptism teaching but a resurrection one
she even goes in to explain what type of bodies will raise up and when it will happen but really it’s not a big deal or anything it just seems non controversial and what he had said in that place made perfect sense to me . I wasn’t trying
To insult or argue just was saying it didint seem stupid really if you look at what Paul’s written and what he’s writing about
anyways God bless and keep you as he does
I was just saying if a person reads the whole section it’s sort of obvious what he’s saying there . But I’m alright if you think I’m wrong no offense taken or anything I’m just not sure why we wouldnt agree on what it says but that happens sometimes
Im curious what you mean by vicarious baptisms ?
aim not arguing for that as doctrine that we should be getting baptized for the dead or anything like that , I was just saying if we look at what Paul’s speaking about there and read the whole section it seems like part of the same thing he’s been talking about before and after also like it’s just part of the statement he’s addressing because some didn’t believe in the resurrection
My opinion for what it’s worth is if we look at the subject matter and read the whole thing it’s not controversial why he’s saying it
“Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?”
1 Corinthians 15:12 KJV
i think Paul is addressing that issue among them and that’s why he begins using rhetorical sentences to show his point as he co rubies he keeps returning to the matter “ if there’s no resurrection what are we doing all this for”
I’m just saying I think that’s the only reason he even speaks of it there it is t a baptism teaching but a resurrection one
she even goes in to explain what type of bodies will raise up and when it will happen but really it’s not a big deal or anything it just seems non controversial and what he had said in that place made perfect sense to me . I wasn’t trying
To insult or argue just was saying it didint seem stupid really if you look at what Paul’s written and what he’s writing about
anyways God bless and keep you as he does
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Paul said he didn't so people couldn't go around and say I am baptized by Paul so who were you baptized by like it was about the person doing the baptism. But that doesn't mean Paul's own Disciples he had like Timothy and others weren't Baptizing for Paul.
You truly are twisting Scripture. I read you claim you have been studying the Bible for 68 years and it appears you have learned to twist and use it for your personal will more than anything else.
You truly are twisting Scripture. I read you claim you have been studying the Bible for 68 years and it appears you have learned to twist and use it for your personal will more than anything else.