The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

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BrotherJustin said:
I see your "simple" 'Koranic Arabic' answer, Bowman...



So, the Arabic word for sacrifice means the same as the English word "sacrifice"...

... yeah, no argument here on the definition of 'sacrifice'.

It seems the definition of "inhar" does not lead us to conclude that their Muhammad was a deity.

I am quite certain animal sacrifice has been around for quite some time (Old Testament). Didn't the ancient Aztecs and/or Mayans practice human sacrifice?

There is nothing about the example you gave concerning the Koran's referencing Muhammad as Lord and Sacrifice which leads me to believe that the Koran presents Muhammad as a deity or as Christ.
Click to expand...


Here is a broader summary of this ayah, as compared to its most likely Biblical source, the Book of Revelation...

Summary of 108.2:


  • Revelation chapter five details John’s encounter with Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb
  • We are told that the Lamb (i.e. Jesus) was slain (sphazo), and yet He lives (Rev 5.6)
  • This is Jesus’ death on the Cross and His subsequent Resurrection
  • John describes that the Lamb resides in the midst of the singular thrown
  • The same throne from which flows the River of Lifein Paradise


  • The Lamb is worshiped as God
  • Jesus is God
  • The prayers of the saints go towards the Lamb (Rev 5.8)


  • John tells us that the Blood of the slain Lamb (i.e. Jesus) is used as a sacrifice for all humanity (Rev 5.9, 12)


  • 108.2 begins with the copulative particle “fa”, which indicates a close connection between the sentences before and after it; signifying either definite cause and effect, some internal link, or a natural sequence of events
  • Thus, we are told that the information contained in 108.1 is inseparably tied to that contained in 108.2, and that 108.2 will relay the “effect” of the “cause” initiated in 108.1
  • 108.1 described to us the gift in Paradise
  • 108.2 describes to us exactly who the gift was from and who we should be grateful towards
  • Thus, “fa” is connected to “salli”, which is used only this once in the Koran, and is rendered “so you pray”
  • “Fasalli” means to offer prayer to God
  • Surveying the other two Koranic locations of “salli” variants (i.e. “wasalli”, and “tusalli”) confirms that they are always in the context of “allah” and his “Messenger” (9.84, 9.103)
  • As outlined in 108.1; we already understand that the “Messenger” spoken of is actually Jesus Christ
  • This repeated contextual usage of “allah” with his “Messenger”, especially in these locations involving prayers, is continued evidence of the plurality in the office of deity
  • “allah” is not alone
  • The obvious significance in 108.2 is that this means that the “Messenger” is on the receiving end of the “prayer to God”
  • 108.2 continues with whom the prayer is to go towards via “to your Lord” (lirabbika)
  • Observe that 108.2 now directly calls-out the Lord (“rabb”) as singular – where just in the previous ayah it mentioned a plural deity as giving the gift – but now you are to give thanks to a singular God – even though He was just described as being plural
  • 108.2 continues to further describe this singular Lord via the inseparable prefixed conjunction “wa”, which signifies concomitance, i.e. existing together at the same time
  • “Wa” is prefixed to the singular noun “inhar”
  • “Wainhar” is only used this once in the Koran and amazingly has the definition of “Offer sacrifice; devote ones life for the humanity”
  • The singular Lord described in 108.2 is likened to a sacrifice in which ones’ life has been devoted for humanity
  • The root “nahara” provides deeper insight into this sacrifice of the Lord by telling us that it applies to a beast that is slew and sacrificed by cutting the jugular vein
  • Amazing as it is, 108.2 has just described the singular Lord Jesus Christ as the Sacrificial Lamb, same as foretold in the Book of Revelation
  • Recapping what we have been told in 108.2:

1. The Lord is singular
2. The Lord is a sacrifice
3. The Lord was slain
4. The Lord lives
5. The Lord devoted His life for humanity
6. The Lord receives your prayers
7. The Sacrificial Lamb is worshiped



 
Bowman said:
Here is a broader summary of this ayah, as compared to its most likely Biblical source, the Book of Revelation...

Summary of 108.2:


  • Revelation chapter five details John’s encounter with Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb
  • We are told that the Lamb (i.e. Jesus) was slain (sphazo), and yet He lives (Rev 5.6)
  • This is Jesus’ death on the Cross and His subsequent Resurrection
  • John describes that the Lamb resides in the midst of the singular thrown
  • The same throne from which flows the River of Lifein Paradise


  • The Lamb is worshiped as God
  • Jesus is God
  • The prayers of the saints go towards the Lamb (Rev 5.8)


  • John tells us that the Blood of the slain Lamb (i.e. Jesus) is used as a sacrifice for all humanity (Rev 5.9, 12)


  • 108.2 begins with the copulative particle “fa”, which indicates a close connection between the sentences before and after it; signifying either definite cause and effect, some internal link, or a natural sequence of events
  • Thus, we are told that the information contained in 108.1 is inseparably tied to that contained in 108.2, and that 108.2 will relay the “effect” of the “cause” initiated in 108.1
  • 108.1 described to us the gift in Paradise
  • 108.2 describes to us exactly who the gift was from and who we should be grateful towards
  • Thus, “fa” is connected to “salli”, which is used only this once in the Koran, and is rendered “so you pray”
  • “Fasalli” means to offer prayer to God
  • Surveying the other two Koranic locations of “salli” variants (i.e. “wasalli”, and “tusalli”) confirms that they are always in the context of “allah” and his “Messenger” (9.84, 9.103)
  • As outlined in 108.1; we already understand that the “Messenger” spoken of is actually Jesus Christ
  • This repeated contextual usage of “allah” with his “Messenger”, especially in these locations involving prayers, is continued evidence of the plurality in the office of deity
  • “allah” is not alone
  • The obvious significance in 108.2 is that this means that the “Messenger” is on the receiving end of the “prayer to God”
  • 108.2 continues with whom the prayer is to go towards via “to your Lord” (lirabbika)
  • Observe that 108.2 now directly calls-out the Lord (“rabb”) as singular – where just in the previous ayah it mentioned a plural deity as giving the gift – but now you are to give thanks to a singular God – even though He was just described as being plural
  • 108.2 continues to further describe this singular Lord via the inseparable prefixed conjunction “wa”, which signifies concomitance, i.e. existing together at the same time
  • “Wa” is prefixed to the singular noun “inhar”
  • “Wainhar” is only used this once in the Koran and amazingly has the definition of “Offer sacrifice; devote ones life for the humanity”
  • The singular Lord described in 108.2 is likened to a sacrifice in which ones’ life has been devoted for humanity
  • The root “nahara” provides deeper insight into this sacrifice of the Lord by telling us that it applies to a beast that is slew and sacrificed by cutting the jugular vein
  • Amazing as it is, 108.2 has just described the singular Lord Jesus Christ as the Sacrificial Lamb, same as foretold in the Book of Revelation
  • Recapping what we have been told in 108.2:

1. The Lord is singular
2. The Lord is a sacrifice
3. The Lord was slain
4. The Lord lives
5. The Lord devoted His life for humanity
6. The Lord receives your prayers
7. The Sacrificial Lamb is worshiped
Click to expand...

Whats your point? Readers digest version.
 
Bowman said:
Here is a broader summary of this ayah, as compared to its most likely Biblical source, the Book of Revelation...
Click to expand...

FreeNChrist said:
Whats your point? Readers digest version.
Click to expand...

I agree with FreeNChrist.

And since you took the time to harp on Magenta concerning her study skills--I'd like to take this opportunity to ask you to refrain from hypocrisy;

Bowman said:
But...you have already amply demonstrated that you don't know ANY Arabic whatsoever......so, how are you going to prove your assertion?


Can we say google...?
Click to expand...


Bowman said:
Copying verbatim from the internet, as you routinely do, is NOT research.


Real research can be defended....and I already tested your knowledge of your 'copy-paste-research'....and you fell completely flat...and now you have this gigantic vendetta chip on your shoulder, as you chase me from thread to thread...
Click to expand...

It's interesting, that your copy+paste aligns (nearly exactly) with this banned user from another Christian forum.

Bowman's source?
 
Dan...

We've seen the typical 'knee-jerk-denial' reaction from a few Christians, in this thread, regarding my replies to your OP, what about you..?

More of the same...or...are you going to research the matter for yourself, before you deny...?
 
I guess, ultimately, i am not interested in studying Arabic or the Koran at this time.

I had hoped that Budman would describe implications for Christians, should his theory be true--instead, I'm left with this idea that the Koranic Muhammad might actually be referring to Christ and have not the slightest idea as to what good might possibly come from such knowledge.

This theory is further complicated by the fact that Budman's source is the Koran and his own personal knowledge of Arabic.
 
Last edited:
Bowman said:
Dan...

We've seen the typical 'knee-jerk-denial' reaction from a few Christians, in this thread, regarding my replies to your OP, what about you..?

More of the same...or...are you going to research the matter for yourself, before you deny...?
Click to expand...

perhaps we would be better served by focusing on the BIBLE
 
Bowman said:
Dan...

We've seen the typical 'knee-jerk-denial' reaction from a few Christians, in this thread, regarding my replies to your OP, what about you..?

More of the same...or...are you going to research the matter for yourself, before you deny...?
Click to expand...

The proper response is to ignore/shun teachings of the koran, have you ever heard a Bible verse that tells us to think on things that are pure, wholesome,edify, you claim to be a scholar so maybe you could quote it fully and show application to the koran or perhaps whatsoever is not of faith is sin.....(doesn't sound like study the koran to me)
 
i've been gone a week so... wait!

there are non essential characteristics of the Lord Jesus?? :confused:
 
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