The False Doctrine Most Professing Christians are unaware of.
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God is a jealous God. Thanks. I'll begin and others can join in with contributions or questions. I will not entertain leading questions that lead to controversy. To begin, this is a parable of the bride of Christ as the woman. She either is clean or guilty according to the judgment she has to endure.Deuteronomy 13:3
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Exodus 20:5
Numbers 5:12-14
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
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You do realize that you are contradicting yourself there don't you?[/QUOTE]
... I believe in every precept written in the word of God - I just don't believe that all things are applicable to our lives in the body of Christ. . . .
contradiction Nope . . . I BELIEVE in every precept in the word of God . . . do I still stone people? Can I only eat herbs as in Genesis? Do I still have to stay away from unclean animals? Do I still sacrifice? Do I tell people that it really doesn't matter how many wives they have because there was a time when it was condoned? . . . that is what I mean by not applicable.
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. Romans 15:4
... I believe in every precept written in the word of God - I just don't believe that all things are applicable to our lives in the body of Christ. . . .
contradiction Nope . . . I BELIEVE in every precept in the word of God . . . do I still stone people? Can I only eat herbs as in Genesis? Do I still have to stay away from unclean animals? Do I still sacrifice? Do I tell people that it really doesn't matter how many wives they have because there was a time when it was condoned? . . . that is what I mean by not applicable.
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. Romans 15:4
Post #16 - I explained myself:
"Understanding the different administrations within the structure of scripture would cause unity . . . that is if EVERYONE understood the different administrations. The garden of Eden had ONE command . . . be sort of silly to say that I had to live by that admonition. The Jews received righteousness through obeying ALL the law (Deut. 6:25) . . . Gentiles which didn't have the law, did by nature those things contained the law . . . but for the church, righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
You tell me does living by EVERY word cause division? Some say that is okay to have more than one wife because hey it was done in the OT - Abraham, David and most all the kings had wives and concubines. Some say you cannot eat meat on Friday, some say you cannot eat pork, some say we MUST tithe . . etc. And let me say that I am not pointing out "law" I am pointing out the different principles that the OT people had to abide by that are NOT carried over into the NT.
L
Least
Guest
Goodness Just-us-two,
There's a very clear picture about division in the scriptures, it's always tied to confusion and unbelief.
Here's a few examples:
John 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
John 7:41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
John 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
That's really interesting actually. Because they really didn't know the answer, there was a division among them.
Sometimes simply not knowing, maybe a bit of stubbornness, can cause division.
Here's another example: (There are many more.)
John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
John 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Then the accusations come:
John 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
It's a good picture of how they and we reason sometimes. (Even about each other.)
John 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
There's so much for all of us to learn. To become planted in a doctrine that may not be correct or fruitful would be such a waste. Seeking Jesus and the will of the Father with all our hearts, I believe that ties directly to loving Him.
The only way to know if any doctrine is true is to seek it out with Jesus. It's too important a matter to just accept conformed doctrines just for the sake of conformity? There's no gain at all in that.
When conversations like this come up, it seems it would make for a perfect opportunity to search out answers.
One more example:
John 9:15 Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
Do you think it comes down to stubbornness, or unbelief?
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You look at everything in a spiritual light (sometimes to the detriment of discussion I believe) -
I see this as literal - NOT A CARNAL MIND - but something the children of Israel literally had to do .
Now, in the church, if a wife is unfaithful . . there is no priest to put the woman under a curse - Jesus Christ is our high priest and I do not believe that He would put the woman under a curse . . . The wife needs to ask forgiveness and be cleansed of all unrighteousness.
Aah the simplicity that is in Christ . . . .
This situation (if you would be so kind as to read to the end of the priest's judgment) is beyond the natural. Because of this, the situation of the jealous husband was ludicrous to me, and I had no idea what the metaphoric meaning was until I equated it with what Paul said.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32
P
pottersclay
Guest
Imo the church has opened up a Pandoras box it refuses to shut. The Lord said my ways are not your ways my thoughts are higher my ways are higher. We tend to take everything to the next level in this society today. The church is no different. The word of God is divinely written. The holy spirit teaches us. But many of us choose to believe in the resources available that are not divine. I think we have complicated a lot of the doctrinal matters and have taken simplicity out of the equation. We can never think like God does on that level, that's why he's God. At best we could only speculate on some things that others call doctrine.
God can't be put in a box, we will never know all his ways truly un till we meet him face to face.
The body of Christ does agree on one common thing, the good news, after that it get complicated.
Jesus's Christ excepted me the way I was, just the way I was, he said he forgave me and loved me, just the way I was, we need to except God just the way he is God. He's all knowing we aren't.
Man's quest to know good and evil has taken us from the garden to the cross with many mysteries in between.
God can't be put in a box, we will never know all his ways truly un till we meet him face to face.
The body of Christ does agree on one common thing, the good news, after that it get complicated.
Jesus's Christ excepted me the way I was, just the way I was, he said he forgave me and loved me, just the way I was, we need to except God just the way he is God. He's all knowing we aren't.
Man's quest to know good and evil has taken us from the garden to the cross with many mysteries in between.
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, Deuteronomy 29:29a
There is no curse in Christ. All curses have been removed
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."
And if we are not to curse our enemies, how much less those in the body
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
... I believe in every precept written in the word of God - I just don't believe that all things are applicable to our lives in the body of Christ. . . .
contradiction Nope . . . I BELIEVE in every precept in the word of God . . . do I still stone people? Can I only eat herbs as in Genesis? Do I still have to stay away from unclean animals? Do I still sacrifice? Do I tell people that it really doesn't matter how many wives they have because there was a time when it was condoned? . . . that is what I mean by not applicable.
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. Romans 15:4[/QUOTE]
Okay, that's great. You believe in every precept of the Word of God - and you don't stone people, etc. Then you must believe the precept presented in Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4, and where it is being quoted from, Deuteronomy 8:3. And I agree with your quote of Romans 15:4 completely. This is what it took me quite some time to understand when I became a believer: the things of the Old Testament - the Torah - the "Law" - the Old Covenant, etc. were physical so that when Christ came and died for our sins so that our relationship could be restored with His Father [any of us who choose to can have that restoration] so that as participants in the Renewed Covenant we can see how all of the old/physical compares exactly with the new/spiritual. We would fail even more miserably at keeping Romans 12:1 than we do. (Obviously, in this life we will never know and understand it all.) "I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you."
So it is plain to see that stoning in the physical sense is equal to destroying or putting away the evil from us, spiritually speaking. God knew we would be living in 21st century America and that it would be impossible to sacrifice animals and stone people, yet He told us to obey everything He told us - every word. He would never tell us to do something He knew we would be unable to do and then say we are none of His if we didn't do those things.
Where division and disunity thrive is when we forget that and try to explain the magnificent things of God with only our human nature which is a carnal nature - it comprehends only the physical. The Holy Spirit enables us to see the comparison between the physical and the God-ordained Spiritual.
The essence of my last reply to your other post applies here too. It is the spiritual we are talking about - wives, pork, tithes, etc. all have spiritual applications. Unfortunately, I don't know all of them yet. Even if I did, I would have to keep it to myself as it would not be accepted well in cc.
Okay, that's great. You believe in every precept of the Word of God - and you don't stone people, etc. Then you must believe the precept presented in Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4, and where it is being quoted from, Deuteronomy 8:3. And I agree with your quote of Romans 15:4 completely. This is what it took me quite some time to understand when I became a believer: the things of the Old Testament - the Torah - the "Law" - the Old Covenant, etc. were physical so that when Christ came and died for our sins so that our relationship could be restored with His Father [any of us who choose to can have that restoration] so that as participants in the Renewed Covenant we can see how all of the old/physical compares exactly with the new/spiritual. We would fail even more miserably at keeping Romans 12:1 than we do. (Obviously, in this life we will never know and understand it all.) "I exhort you, therefore, brothers, in view of God's mercies, to offer yourselves as a sacrifice, living and set apart for God. This will please him; it is the logical "Temple worship" for you."
So it is plain to see that stoning in the physical sense is equal to destroying or putting away the evil from us, spiritually speaking. God knew we would be living in 21st century America and that it would be impossible to sacrifice animals and stone people, yet He told us to obey everything He told us - every word. He would never tell us to do something He knew we would be unable to do and then say we are none of His if we didn't do those things.
Where division and disunity thrive is when we forget that and try to explain the magnificent things of God with only our human nature which is a carnal nature - it comprehends only the physical. The Holy Spirit enables us to see the comparison between the physical and the God-ordained Spiritual.[/QUOTE]
um, no there is no " renewed covenant" there are a old, and new. Hebrews 8.
I believe that there is some that we could blame on unbelief, but far and away most of it is stubbornness in my opinion. We stubbornly stick to the beliefs we were taught, often from childhood, and don't question the facts. For instance, it has only been relatively recently that discussion has become common that Jesus was not born on December 25th - centuries went by without questioning it even though the Bible doesn't even say that was His birthday. We still see "Happy Birthday Jesus" decorating front yards at Christmas every year.
Thank you for posting what you did - I had never looked those scriptures up and put them together like that. I enjoyed your comments!
Yup, that's what the woman drank alright. Unnatural, isn't it?
Yet it's still God's word. And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. Numbers 5:17 and 24
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I did read it - The wife is brought to the priest and the husband brings her offering - it is an offering of jealousy, bringing iniquity to remembrance. . . The priest gives her bitter water that causes the curse - if the woman has gone aside and lain with someone else - the curse will cause her thigh to rot and her belly to swell . . . if the woman is not defiled then she will be free and conceive . . .This is the LAW OF JEALOUSIES . . . There ya go . . .
Also note - "it is an offering of jealousy bringing iniquity to remembrance" - For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect . . But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year . . . Hebrews 10:1,3
What do you think this is telling us about the church, and what do you think that the dust and water mixed represent? I think it's representing the first Adam of the carnal flesh in parallel.
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