The finished work of the cross ?
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***this article may help***I would take time to study and explain it, but for now this might give you insight...
[h=3]The Finished Work of Christ | Growing Christians Ministries[/h]
so Jesus gave a false view of Himself?
john 14:15-24 "If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
notice 2 john 1:9 now
id suggest believing what Jesus said of Himself and His gospel. or maybe believe John later
1 john 2:3-6 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
seems as if John might know a good view of things
maybe paul
1 timothy 6:3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
wonder what they are talking about?
8:51 "Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."
maybe the hebrews writers?
hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
the true View of Jesus Christ is found in the 4 gospels as He presented Himself everything else is a witness based on those 4 books
I wondered where the catch would be...
So, what are the commandments Jesus wanted us to keep?
His gospel lol do you not understand ? the things He taught in the gospel things like matthew 5-7 go check them out. and dont think they are meant to condemn you, they are meant to fill you with Gods will with His spirit and wiuth His Life.
God has always done His work by speaking. Jesus says many times " the words im speaking are not mine, they are the words of God. he says if you keep my words, you will be set free of sin. He says follow me, i am the light of the world. He says hear my words, keep them . He says many things that make us secure like " no one can sb[natch you out of my hands" and He says many things like " be merciful, forgive others, bless those who curse you, rid your hearts of things like greed, envy, lust because thats what causes us to sin, there is no condemnation in the gospel, its the truth of God given By His only Son meant to breath Life into us.
Gods power is in the word. what Jesus did on the cross is all part of the gospel its found in those 4 books also they are the account of the Christ who was promised from the time of Moses, who would come and die for our sins, but also He would teach us the ways of God, and in believing Him, the word of God changes our minds and conforms us into His image.
its Just about realizing How much God loves us, so much that He gave His son to suffer for our wrongs, to win our hearts back to God knowing His Love, and so we beluieve His word and it will truly keep us safe when we persevers in them. its not as if we need to be perfect and then Hell save us, He Just wants us to accept His words because they give Life, and His suffering for us is the reason we accept them, because we Know He Loves us and will not teach us wrong. theres no condemnation in His words. its Just about a willingmess to follow the one who died for us.
He is good because He will only teach us what we can follow. and were only accountable for what we Learn. i just truly hope you will consider the gospel. try beginning with the book of John. and then the other three. you dont have to be pr=erfect, you just have to trust Him enough to believe His words and continue in those things. even if you realize you have to give some things up....and you will , but you will find that what He gives is far better. and ask God to teach you as you learn Jesus word he will
God bless you
yeah honestly after this thread and the many explainations and the way people approach it, im pretty much convinced its just another way to omit the gospel , and label it self works to repent and obey as Jesus clearly taught
which as you Know faith comes from Hearing the Word...so its really evident whos behind the doctrine ultimately. its amazing how the scriptures are avoided and twisted to omit the only One who gave the gospel, i believe peters warning about pauls letters should be heeded by many. and definatley the grace revolution books have to be gotten away from because ultimately thats whos teaching this stuff. and explaining things like the finished works omission of the gospel. i heard one guy explaining
" anything the bible says you need to do, or anything the bible says that makes you feel guilty is of the devil, not from God" its silly to me, but yet it seems to be really taking peoples hearts and minds its like a brick wall sometimes always troubling to see the willingness to cast away the gospel ministry of Jesus because its where Life is given.
See hearing the Word is what gives meaning to the word faith. Without knowing what to put faith in makes faith a pointless word. Once hearing the reason God asks us to have faith. Then this is when faith is given meaning or a purpose.
Thats when the choice comes alive. The choice of faith. Thats all God requires us to do is remain faithful and everything in scripture is true to whom remain in him. Its simple. Free will exists before and after. Faith is mans response apon hearing the gospel and choosing to believe. Faith is belief in the unseen. Belief in what? God. In that belief what is included with God? His word. We do because we believe. We believe and we do.
Do i feel forced to do anything for God? Heck no but many times my heart wants to do but my flesh wants to not do. As I surrender to God, God works in me, with me to grow in maturity of faith. It gets easier and easier to say yes Lord and say no to the flesh.
So faith in the end is false without action. Is it the action that saves? No its grace by faith. Thats the relationship between God and man. Grace and faith.
A true faith will believe the cross and Gods words.
But like I said some will say God does all the work in his believers which makes them puppets. They wont call it that but thats whats implied. So then we ask well when you sin and we all know you have. Was it God also that made you sin. Defeating the argument all together.
I think if you really understood the Sermon on the Mount you would at least be able to summarise it.
In fact, I think if you really understood the Sermon on the Mount we might not be having this conversation.
So, let me ask you again, which commandments do you have in mind?
His mission was completed to create a way for all to come to salvation for who believes. Belief is more than just words its a response.Jesus completed his mission. Its now up to us to respond in faithfulness.
amen brother as always good stuff and very insightful. i do believe it comes from the word He spoke though and He always has done His work by speaking it forth. Just like He said "Let there be light and light began to shine......He has spoken to us who believe His Son and those things create in us making " new creations in christ prepared for the good works taught by the Lord Jesus Christ, His words are the power of God, thats why its all about our faith in Him. why he is the way, truth and Life.
I really enjoy most every post you share that i see, always gives a different perspective to me, but you never seem to part from the Principles in the word of God, and thats what i look for in the brethren, because i always find value in those who stick to the word of Goid
God bless you and keep you bro
ughh....... alright well i hope youll consider the things Jesus said, those are His commands. God bless but oim not willing to go in circles in order to debate you about whether Jesus spoke the Gospel, he says He did repeatedly, thats plenty for me, i hope you will consider that.
God Loves you, peace
So, in your own words please explain the relationship between Jesus going to the cross and dying a horrible death and you following what Jesus said in the Gospels.ughh....... alright well i hope youll consider the things Jesus said, those are His commands. God bless but oim not willing to go in circles in order to debate you about whether Jesus spoke the Gospel, he says He did repeatedly, thats plenty for me, i hope you will consider that.
God Loves you, peace
how bout pauls words
2 corinthians 5:14-15 "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Jesus Left His glory in Heaven, came to earth, took on the flesh of fallen man, taught everything Man didnt get, from the throne of God, and then was spit on, Mocked, falsely accused, condemned, beaten twice, flogged, spit on more, was lead through the crowds carrying the cross of a criminal, He then Had nails driven through His hands and feet, he hung there 6 hours intil He suffocated and died an agonizing death, for the purpose of bringing sinners, to repentance through showing Gods Love to the world. His message of the cross is " God Loves you so much He would give His only sons Life to save yours...............thats why i will follow His word until i am buried....and rise again to see His glory and fall on my Knees calling Him my Lord face to face.
I follow Jesus because He did what He did, therefore i have every reason in the world, to believe what He said, he loves me, hes for me, his word is Life, has changed my Life from a wretch to someone full of Joy and someone who would die for Him.
whats the answer you are looking for? probably that through His resurrection and ascention He sent the holy ghost to live in us. the holy spirit will always bring His words to remembrance because they are what He spoke to His disciples, they will never fade or change, they are Gods perfect doctrine.
hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
He doesnt change, His words dont change. the gospel will always be the gospel. His words can be studied for 30 years and still speak more each day because they are Gods words as Jesus said they were. we learn knowledge through Words, the Knowledge of God, is contained in His words.
When you say that you follow Jesus for what He did what are you referring to?
Thanks man, as you already see the circle never ends on this site. Very few people I have had to ignore because of the hostility that only tempted me to become un christ like. Its not like real life where you can walk away. Some and you will see who, its just better to hit the ignore/walk away button. And continue to preach truth.
Others who are respectful while debating I out of respect read their post and try to see from their point of views.
But so far just as you said I see what their trying to say and then read on into verses that speak of follow or remain. And I cant deny them in my mind. I cant ignore them. So then the task came to study them in context. Which only made what I saw in scripture even clearer. Context defended what I was seeing.
But whats crazy to me is the circle goes around the opposition will say the same things. So I sit and ponder this reality and wonder how can everyone clsim to be right.
do you not read my comments? summary the cross shows Gods Love. its not the end, we are commanded byu the one who died to Love Him in return. The cross is part ofthe gospel, without His words it has no power to create because creation comes from Gods word. What He did, what He said is involved in that things like this
matthew 10 :27-31 "What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.30But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
this works in me i wouldnt Know Gods Love without the words and also the actions the work of God is the gospel both His words, and His suffering. i wouldnt Know how to act right before God without His word, i wouldnt Know if the promises of eternal Life without what He said, nor would the apostles, nor any man. I wouldnt get the value of following Him without His word, couldnt receive the holy spirit without His words.......the work is ongoing, the cross is not everything, its a part of Gods plan.
the cross is an altar, whats important is the One who came from God, and spoke, and then died and rose again went to Gods right hand and sent His spirit. without His teachings we wouldnt ever know those things. what He did was again like i thought was clear above He looked upon us and saw our need for A savior, so He left His glory, became a man, TAUGHT THE WAYS of God that man defiled and forgot and then also, He suffered the horrors of the cross.
thats the best i got, I hope you will consider that the gospel isnt Just Jesus dying and being raised, that He preached the gospel, the good news of the eternal Kingdom of God.
bless you though im up too late.....
ohhh yea i feel you, completely i have been on here for over a years, my first account i deleted in order to change my name from Jason to follow jesus. ive been in the circle with a few in particular and have also blocked a couple, but recently i unblocked the 2 or three i had to block for the same reasons yu are stating. i realized that even though theres the same grouop of folks who never change, its also a great site to meet folks who impart christian things, things of the word like you do so often, and ive always believes that one person cant really grasp all of it by Gods design, because we are meant to come together to a fuller Knowledge and dis=fferent perspectives of the same things help alot to widen the understanding, or confirm and encourage.
i miss a few members that left because of the constant attacks by the gog crowd especially. pl=ilgrim passing through was my favorite she always had good insight and always had in context scripture, always had a common understanding but i learned much and was able to also share much with her. i emailed with her after she left but got locked our of my email it got spammed or whatever u call it. also bkerchaz was awesome with sharing the word in Love and helped to impart things
theres still a few i really understand you are one, desert rose and well actually quite a few now days i really get what they are sharing and stephen 63...peterjenz often i understand him thoroughly and appreciate His posts he gets attacked often, but i understand what it comes from i been there too
mostly i find the best value in some of the ones who are argued with because they are speaking good things. i pay closer attention to those rejected by certain crowds.i look at it now as a blessing and just hold on to what Jesus said about being excluded and insulted for the sake of the gospel. exceeding Joy lol
i also realize at times i have been pretty stubborn, been working on that alot. still stumble but workin hard to Just make sure of my intention being to spread seed the right way, for the right intention. do my best to stray from argumentative threads but its hard on here.
This is where you essential confusion lies.
The cross is not just "part" of the Gospel.
It is the absolutely and indispensably central to the Gospel.
There is NO Gospel without it.
The Gospel, in case you did not know, is literally "The Good News" and the reason why it is the good news is because Jesus Christ took our sins on His shoulders and shed His blood for our sins.
We (as Christians) are justified (found blameless) because of this work that Jesus did on the cross, and as such are saved to eternal life. This is a gift of grace, even the faith that is needed to believe in Jesus Christ is part of that gift of grace (Eph 2:8-9).
If you can only get as far as following Jesus as a good bloke with good teachings so that you can become a good bloke yourself then you are lost in your sins and eternally damned because you do not accept the essential work that Jesus did on the cross.
Just "following" the ethical teachings of Christ, as found in the four Gospels, will not save anyone.
I am not saying you are damned but I am posing the question in all seriousness.
By your own admission you do not understand the point of the cross, and you have certainly tap-danced all around the issue for the last two days.
A Christian is someome who wholeheartedly accepts everything that Jesus Christ did on the cross
okay well thanks for clearing up my confusion. id work on accepting the gospel as Jesus said it was though. Jesus spoke the gospel according to His words i showed you earlier that His blood was shed to remove the old covenant law.....thats why were forgiven because His blood sealed His word which is abundatly better than moses word. by design, but somehow you skipped all that and found a shed blood verse that omits th fact that hebrews is a contrast of the 2 covenants, and shows that the first is a pattern foretelling what Jesus would do.
anyways thanks for the interpretation, God bless though either way, ill stick With Jesus explaination of the gospel rather than joseph prince type stuff that raises the bronze snake and makes Gods word of no purpose or effect.
hope yu will look to the gospel past the cross and find the Life.
john 12:48-50 "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
K
ketu
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christianity is all about christ.....the death of Jesus is the mystery of christianity ...why?
Because it describes the love of God to us.How can a father sacrifice his son for people that are not evenbelievers but SINNERS!!he said in mathewï have come for the redemption of the sinners"
Another mystery is why jesus died- he could have called on the angels to save him but did not its another mystery that he chose to die for people who did not regard him at that time...he died because he knew that was the only way we would recieve liberty"BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES AGAINST US,WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US,AND TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY,NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS AND HAVING SPOILED PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS,HE MADE A SHOW OF THEM OPENLY,TRIUMPHING OVER THEM"(COLOSSIANS 2;14)
he came to reconcile us back to God in fellowship through the HOLYSPIRIT in the old testament a sacrifce was renedered to God forr forgiveness of sins only prophets of God saw visions and dreams Jesus came that we might all have access to this.Hope you understand.
Because it describes the love of God to us.How can a father sacrifice his son for people that are not evenbelievers but SINNERS!!he said in mathewï have come for the redemption of the sinners"
Another mystery is why jesus died- he could have called on the angels to save him but did not its another mystery that he chose to die for people who did not regard him at that time...he died because he knew that was the only way we would recieve liberty"BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES AGAINST US,WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US,AND TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY,NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS AND HAVING SPOILED PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS,HE MADE A SHOW OF THEM OPENLY,TRIUMPHING OVER THEM"(COLOSSIANS 2;14)
he came to reconcile us back to God in fellowship through the HOLYSPIRIT in the old testament a sacrifce was renedered to God forr forgiveness of sins only prophets of God saw visions and dreams Jesus came that we might all have access to this.Hope you understand.