The Intersection of Theoogy and Science

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You didn't answer my question. I'm sure if I asked you to prove Muhammad from the Bible you wouldn't be able to do it either. I'm not playing your word games, you've insulted quite a few people already. The Koran has no place in the BDF. The Koran is of the devil! It should end up like the books in Acts 19:19 for poisoning the souls of multitudes!


I'm sure that I could...


Luke 4.14 -15

και υπεστρεψεν ο ιησους εν τη δυναμει του πνευματοςεις την γαλιλαιανκαι φημη εξηλθενκαθολης της περιχωρου περι αυτου και αυτος εδιδασκενεν ταις συναγωγαιςαυτωνδοξαζομενος υπο παντων

And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee. And a report went outthroughall the neighboring country about Him. And He taught in their synagogues, being praised by all.(Luke 4.14 – 15)


Just as the Arabic term ‘muhammad’ is a passive participle referring to a singularly praised man – so also is the Greek term ‘doxazomenos’ a passive participle referring to the singularly praised man, Jesus Christ.



 




The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…



وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول

الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن

الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم

إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا​


Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157
And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.






Copying verbatim from the internet, as you routinely do, is NOT research.

Real research can be defended....and I already tested your knowledge of your 'copy-paste-research'....and you fell completely flat...and now you have this gigantic vendetta chip on your shoulder, as you chase me from thread to thread...


How do you understand the first three words of 4.157? From this I feel that it is a stretch to even suggest that Mohammad is considered Jesus in the Koran.
 
Re: Defining the term 'Muhammad'...

The premise is to define the term in question.

Let’s begin our exegesis by examining the classic Arabic definition for 'Muhammad'; how frequently the term (by itself) is used; and how its root and all derivatives are utilized in the Koran.



محمد= “muhammad”

“muhammad” definition:

Passive participle. A man praised much, or repeatedly, or time after time; endowed with many praiseworthy qualities. Praised one.

It comes from the root 'hamida' (ha-miim-dal), which means he praised, eulogized, or commended him; spoke well of him; mentioned him with approbation; sometimes because of favor received.Also implies admiration; and it implies the magnifying, or honoring, of the object thereof; and lowliness, humility, or submissiveness, in the person who offers it. He declared the praises of God or he praised God much with good forms of praise.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume two, pp. 638 – 640
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 135 - 136
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 38
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 56


Occurrences of 'muhammad' in the Koran: 4
Locations: 3.144, 33.40, 47.2, 48.29

Occurrences of the root 'hamida' and its sixteen derivatives in the Koran: 68
Locations: 1.2, 2.30,2.267, 3.144, 3.188,4.131,6.1, 6.45,7.43, 9.112,10.10, 11.73,13.13,14.1,14.8,14.39, 15.98,16.75, 17.44,17.52,17.79,17.111, 18.1, 20.130,22.24, 22.64,23.28, 25.58,27.15, 27.59, 27.93, 28.70,29.63, 30.18,31.12, 31.25, 31.26, 32.15,33.40, 34.1(2x),34.6,35.1, 35.15,35.34, 37.182, 39.29, 39.74, 39.75(2x), 40.7, 40.55,40.65, 41.42, 42.5, 42.28, 45.36,47.2, 48.29, 50.39,52.48,57.24, 60.6,61.6, 64.1,64.6, 85.8, 110.3

Observe the Koranic usages…


  • 1.2…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 2.30…praise to the lord
  • 2.267…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 3.144…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 3.188…they are praised – painful torture
  • 4.131…praise to “allah”
  • 6.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 6.45…and the praise belonging to “allah”, lord
  • 7.43…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 9.112…the praise to “allah”
  • 10.10…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 11.73…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 13.13…on account of the praise, “allah”
  • 14.1…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 14.8…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 14.39…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 15.98…lord’s praise
  • 16.75…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 17.44…on account of his praise, “allah”, lord
  • 17.52…on account of his praise, lord
  • 17.79…lord praised
  • 17.111…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 18.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 20.130…lord’s praise
  • 22.24…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 22.64…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 23.28…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 25.58…on account of lords praise
  • 27.15…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 27.59…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 27.93…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 28.70…the praise to “allah”
  • 29.63…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 30.18…the praise, “allah”
  • 31.12…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 31.25…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 31.26…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 32.15…lord’s praise
  • 33.40…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 34.1…the praise belonging to “allah”(2x)
  • 34.6…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 35.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 35.15…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 35.34…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 37.182…and the praise belonging to “allah”, lord
  • 39.29…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 39.74…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 39.75…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 39.75…lord’s praise
  • 40.7…lord’s praise
  • 40.55…lord’s praise
  • 40.65…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 41.42…praiseworthy, lord
  • 42.5…lord’s praise
  • 42.28…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 45.36…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 47.2…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 48.29…a MAN praised much – praised one
  • 50.39…lord’s praise
  • 52.48…lord’s praise
  • 57.24…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 60.6…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 61.6…a MAN praised
  • 64.1…the praise belonging to “allah”
  • 64.6…“allah” is praiseworthy
  • 85.8…the praiseworthy – one of the names of “allah”
  • 110.3…lord’s praise



Summarizing this data, we have the following premises upon which to build our understanding of the Koranic 'Muhammad':


  • The word itself is not a proper name
  • The word is a participle…i.e. it combines the functions of both adjective and verb
  • It applies to one man
  • This man is praised
  • He is the only man praised
  • The root 'hamida', from which 'Muhammad' is derived, refers to the praising of God
  • Surveying all 68 Koranic occurrences of the root 'hamida' and its sixteen derivatives, demonstrates the overwhelming usage in direct relation to Koranic deity (i.e. 'allah', lord)
  • The only Koranic instance of a derivative not pertaining to deity is in 3.188 - in which people are tortured for accepting praises – thus, reserving “praise” for deity only
  • This leaves us with 5 ayahs that 'appear' to buck the trend
  • All 5 of these ayahs refer to a man
  • All 5 ayahs refer to a man that is praised


Thus…

This begs the question…

1) How could the 'praising' (that is reserved only for Koranic deity) be applied to a single man?


Ok so far....?

No.

I am not a Koran scolar, but I feel that you are over translating. Go back and look at the context of the ayahs you highlighted. I don't see anything that even remotely suggest that Mohammad is the same person as Jesus. In fact if you take Jesus in the context of the Koran, the only thing that you can definitively say is that Jesus is an important prophet, and a lessor prophet than Mohammad.
 
This is more a Theology/Science topic, but I suppose could be under "Bible Discussion." I just am curious on people's different view of where and how Theology and Science intersect. Any thoughts would be a joy to read :)


Science is discovering how God made things to be. Like the bible says about the human body, I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Because whatever Being created this complicated, brilliant, and perfect system is Someone so wise and smart They should be feared and honored.

But learning how the body comes together and works, matter of fact learning about all creation, is not the only factor to consider. Unlike God, mankind can be wrong. He can be convinced in his mind that things are a certain way, even when he's wrong. Mankind used to think the world was flat, and that if you sailed too far away, that you would fall off the earth. But the bible is always right. Long before scientists discovered it, the bible said that the earth was a sphere, and hangs upon nothing. (I guess they didn't read their bibles).

But there is yet another factor to consider. God always leaves room for faith, because without faith it is impossible to please God. That is the whole purpose of Him making creation in the first place- to see who would believe in Him and obey Him (even though He already knows, we must go through the motions). He considers faith the same as obeying, and disbelief the same as disobeying, because He says His invisible qualities are clearly seen in what was created, so that mankind is without excuse. They would have to suppress their God-given conscience and thoughts in order to not believe. They do this because believing there is a God means believing in right and wrong, and the rewards or consequences that go along with it (heaven and hell), and since they are on the disobedient side, that does not conclude well for them. So they would rather be in denial and live for pleasure on this earth, which is very short-lived compared to eternity.

So since God has to leave room for faith, so that we may have the opportunity to obey Him, so that we can spend eternity in heaven with Him, He has to erase some of His footprints so-to-speak, and we just have to take Him at His Word (bible). And here's the brilliant thing, He even lets the obedient ones know what He's doing, without letting the disobedient ones know. Why and how? One because the bible says He shares His business with His friends, and two He needs to leave the opportunity for faith to the disobedient in case they change their mind, because He wants everyone to be saved that will choose to be.

Ok so how does He let the obedient know what He's doing without letting the disobedient know? He created our minds, and set us up with a conscience and ability to reason and understand- let's call this a door in our minds. To the obedient He says to ask, seek, and knock, and He will open the door of understanding to us. This requires study and prayer- something that the disobedient are not willing to do. But even if you share with them what you have learned, they still will not understand because they suppress the truth and their conscience. They want to see plainly with their own eyes, but even when they do their conscience suppresses the plain truth right in front of them. There were many miracles performed in bible, but they didn't change a single heart. The obedient still would have had faith, and the disobedient still didn't change their heart. 1 Corinthians 1:27 God says He uses the simple things of the world to shame the wise. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Therefore, this is why scientists cannot fully understand without faith in God. The spiritual was here first, and the physical came from the spiritual, so if you try to understand the physical while denying its spiritual ingredients, you could never have a full understanding. Because the natural comes from the supernatural- Who can change the laws He set forth in nature- to walk on water and to hover in the sky, or to reverse the effects of disease. If you only think in terms of physics, you limit your understanding. I have faith because I don't need to see what the ingredients are and how they work together, because my mind does not focus on physics but on the spiritual. I don't need to know how someone physically gives bread to the hungry while another physically ends someone's life with weapons, I need to know the roots of good and evil, and to decide which side I'm on before physicality is no more, and I forevermore exist in a spiritual state in one of these two groups- heaven or hell.
 
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Science is discovering how God made things to be. Like the bible says about the human body, I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Because whatever Being created this complicated, brilliant, and perfect system is Someone so wise and smart They should be feared and honored.

But learning how the body comes together and works, matter of fact learning about all creation, is not the only factor to consider. Unlike God, mankind can be wrong. He can be convinced in his mind that things are a certain way, even when he's wrong. { "And, there is a whole lot of that..." ( more than most people ever fathom ) } Mankind used to think the world was flat, and that if you sailed too far away, that you would fall off the earth. But the bible is always right. Long before scientists discovered it, the bible said that the earth was a sphere, and hangs upon nothing. { Please show me scripture that says the earth is a sphere. And, before you pull out the phrase 'circle of the earth' - remember that a 'circle' is not necessarily a 'ball' - it could simply be a 'circle'. ;) The Bible indicates that the earth is stationary ( 'non-moving' ). What about that...? } (I guess they didn't read their bibles). { Perhaps some do not read their bibles today? ( I am not saying this to insinuate *you* in particular - I am just making a point about what is said in the sentence that is highlighted above. Not only is a great deal of 'science' exceedingly "assumed" ( i.e. - a lot of it does not [ really ] actually "pass the test" ); there is a whole lot of bible misinterpretation, too... :eek: ) }

But there is yet another factor to consider. God always leaves room for faith, because without faith it is impossible to please God. That is the whole purpose of Him making creation in the first place- to see who would believe in Him and obey Him (even though He already knows, we must go through the motions). He considers faith the same as obeying, and disbelief the same as disobeying, because He says His invisible qualities are clearly seen in what was created, so that mankind is without excuse. They would have to suppress their God-given conscience and thoughts in order to not believe. They do this because believing there is a God means believing in right and wrong, and the rewards or consequences that go along with it (heaven and hell), and since they are on the disobedient side, that does not conclude well for them. So they would rather be in denial and live for pleasure on this earth, which is very short-lived compared to eternity.

So since God has to leave room for faith, so that we may have the opportunity to obey Him, so that we can spend eternity in heaven with Him, He has to erase some of His footprints so-to-speak, and we just have to take Him at His Word (bible). And here's the brilliant thing, He even lets the obedient ones know what He's doing, without letting the disobedient ones know. Why and how? One because the bible says He shares His business with His friends, and two He needs to leave the opportunity for faith to the disobedient in case they change their mind, because He wants everyone to be saved that will choose to be.

Ok so how does He let the obedient know what He's doing without letting the disobedient know? He created our minds, and set us up with a conscience and ability to reason and understand- let's call this a door in our minds. To the obedient He says to ask, seek, and knock, and He will open the door of understanding to us. This requires study and prayer- something that the disobedient are not willing to do. But even if you share with them what you have learned, they still will not understand because they suppress the truth and their conscience. They want to see plainly with their own eyes, but even when they do their conscience suppresses the plain truth right in front of them. There were many miracles performed in bible, but they didn't change a single heart. The obedient still would have had faith, and the disobedient still didn't change their heart. 1 Corinthians 1:27 God says He uses the simple things of the world to shame the wise. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Therefore, this is why scientists cannot fully understand without faith in God. The spiritual was here first, and the physical came from the spiritual, so if you try to understand the physical while denying its spiritual ingredients, you could never have a full understanding. Because the natural comes from the supernatural- Who can change the laws He set forth in nature- to walk on water and to hover in the sky, or to reverse the effects of disease. If you only think in terms of physics, you limit your understanding. I have faith because I don't need to see what the ingredients are and how they work together, because my mind does not focus on physics but on the spiritual. I don't need to know how someone physically gives bread to the hungry while another physically ends someone's life with weapons, I need to know the roots of good and evil, and to decide which side I'm on before physicality is no more, and I forevermore exist in a spiritual state in one of these two groups- heaven or hell.
All-in-all, this is a very good post!

My simple definition of 'science':

"Science is the study of how God does things."

:)
 
How do you understand the first three words of 4.157? From this I feel that it is a stretch to even suggest that Mohammad is considered Jesus in the Koran.


The formula has already been established in the ayahs leading up to 4.157, by the usage of the terms “waqawlihim” (that they said)…and “bal” (nay).

Everything that “they said” is in direct quotes.

The term “bal” only comes after what they said.

“Bal” is a particle of digression, and denotes emendation wherever it occurs.

This can be either a negation or an affirmation.

As we can see in the example just preceding 4.157, the formula set forth is merely one of affirmation of what “they said”.

We can see this same exact positive affirmation formula present in 4.157 – 8, to the fact that “they said” that Jesus Christ was killed.

4.158 even plainly states that Jesus Christ was singularly resurrected, perfect tense (completed action) “rafaAAahu” after he was killed.

Jesus’ singular resurrection already occurred.




 
This is more a Theology/Science topic, but I suppose could be under "Bible Discussion." I just am curious on people's different view of where and how Theology and Science intersect. Any thoughts would be a joy to read :)

I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, so I beg anyone's pardon if this series has already been mentioned.

Moody Bible Institute put out "Moody Science Videos" years ago and for many homeschooling families they are a staple in the household curriculum. We've had them for years and even my tech-savvy younger children enjoy these old-style productions.

You can find many of the titles on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoYQtiEKlPNMhONBHArOO9CFFqi4mipyo

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
 
The Parable of The Growing Seed...

No.

I am not a Koran scolar, but I feel that you are over translating. Go back and look at the context of the ayahs you highlighted. I don't see anything that even remotely suggest that Mohammad is the same person as Jesus.


Yes....let's do that...


محمد رسول الله والذين معه أشداء على الكفار

رحماء بينهم تريهم ركعا سجدا يبتغون فضلا من

الله ورضونا سيماهم في وجوههم من أثر

السجود ذلك مثلهم في التورية ومثلهم في الإنجيل

كزرع أخرج شطءه فءازره فاستغلظ فاستوى

على سوقه يعجب الزراع ليغيظ بهم الكفار وعد

الله الذين ءامنوا وعملوا الصلحت منهم مغفرة

وأجرا عظيما​

Muhammadun rasoolu Allahiwaallatheena maAAahuashiddaoAAala alkuffariruhamaobaynahumtarahumrukkaAAansujjadanyabtaghoonafadlan mina Allahi waridwananseemahumfeewujoohihimminathari alssujoodithalika mathaluhum fee alttawrati wamathaluhum fee al-injeeli kazarAAinakhrajashat-ahufaazarahufaistaghlathafaistawa AAalasooqihiyuAAjibualzzurraAAaliyagheethabihimu alkuffarawaAAada Allahuallatheena amanoowaAAamilooalssalihati minhum maghfiratan waajranAAatheeman


48.29 (The) Praised One, “allah’s” messenger, and whom,accompanied by Him, powerful over the disbelievers, having much mercy before them; you see them, those who bow down submissively, they seek grace from “allah” and The Guardian of Paradise; their mark is upon their faces from the scar of the healed wound (and) the acts of worship;this is their parable in the scriptures of the Jews and Christians, and their parable in The Gospel, as cast seed to bring forth sprouts so to make it strong, so the seed-produce became thick, so to be equal onits length of the shanks, delights the sowers; because this angered Him on account of them,the disbelievers; and “allah” he promised whom they believed and they did the righteous deeds,from theirforgiveness of sin, and great reward.


The context above, clearly has the term 'Muhammad' occurring in direct reference to Jesus' Parable of 'The Growing Seed', as contained in the Gospel of Mark, chapter four, as thus...



Mark 4.26-29 And He said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man shoul
d cast seed on the earth, and should sleep, and rise night and day; and the seed should sprout and lengthen of itself, as he does not know. For of itself the earth bears fruit: first greenery, then an ear, then full grain in the ear. And when the fruit yields, immediately he "sends forth the sickle, for the harvest has come." (Joel 3.13)



So...

There can be absolutely no doubt that the Koranic term 'Muhammad' is indeed an epithet referring to the Biblical Jesus Christ.



 
I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, so I beg anyone's pardon if this series has already been mentioned.

Moody Bible Institute put out "Moody Science Videos" years ago and for many homeschooling families they are a staple in the household curriculum. We've had them for years and even my tech-savvy younger children enjoy these old-style productions.

You can find many of the titles on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoYQtiEKlPNMhONBHArOO9CFFqi4mipyo

Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Thanks, JGIG, a welcome refreshment.
You haven't missed too much, and especially lately, count it a blessing.
It's just more of the tired muslum lies and propaganda masquerading as scholarship being vomited out again.
 
Re: Defining the term 'Muhammad'...

In fact if you take Jesus in the context of the Koran, the only thing that you can definitively say is that Jesus is an important prophet, and a lessor prophet than Mohammad.

Totally incorrect.

That ignorant statement would be like asking a Jewish Rabbi his take on the OT...and his reply would be that nothing in it applies to Jesus Christ.

As Christians, we can see the correct interpretation of the SAME EXACT scripture that the Jews have massively gaffed.

The same holds true for Muslims and their Koran.


The Koran revolves around the Biblical Jesus Christ....has numerous chapters named in His honor...and proclaims Jesus as God.

The fact that you deny this is because you have bought into the Islamic lie...
 
Re: Defining the term 'Muhammad'...

Totally incorrect.

That ignorant statement would be like asking a Jewish Rabbi his take on the OT...and his reply would be that nothing in it applies to Jesus Christ.

As Christians, we can see the correct interpretation of the SAME EXACT scripture that the Jews have massively gaffed.

The same holds true for Muslims and their Koran.


The Koran revolves around the Biblical Jesus Christ....has numerous chapters named in His honor...and proclaims Jesus as God.

The fact that you deny this is because you have bought into the Islamic lie...


You have a long way to go to convince me that what you state is true. We can agree to disagree. I'll leave it here.
 
Re: Defining the term 'Muhammad'...

You have a long way to go to convince me that what you state is true. We can agree to disagree. I'll leave it here.


If you want to continue to believe the Islamic lie, then that is your choice...
 
Re: Defining the term 'Muhammad'...

In fact if you take Jesus in the context of the Koran, the only thing that you can definitively say is that Jesus is an important prophet, and a lessor prophet than Mohammad.

If not mistaken wasn't the written text of the Quran given to Muhammad by the Angel of the LORD?

After all Muhammad didn't know how to read and write the spoken word just as Moses couldn't have know how to read and written the spoken word as written in John 5:46-47

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. John 5:46

15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. * see Exodus 3:217 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Deut 18:15-19

But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:47

So Moses actually wrote the Torah containing the Ten Commandments and the OT Covenant?


And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. Deuteronomy 4:13
And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, that the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant. Deuteronomy 9:11

If Jesus was God then why did he say no man had seen the face of God, nor heard his voice at any time?
 
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How about the universe created on one day and that day isn't even over yet now that's a thought.

His works have been finished since the creation of the world.
(Hebrews 4:3)


​
of course, that doesn't say anything about a "day" -- but the works are finished :)
 
Re: Wake up...

The assertion was made in #337.

The defense of this assertion was made in #346.

i read those too. what i read was that you say "Muhammed" literally means "praised one" and that in the Koran, that phrase refers to Jesus Christ.

what i don't get is why you don't think it's irresponsible to say something like "Koranic Muhammed is Jesus Christ" mixing Arabic & English in a way that is so easily construed as a horrendously blasphemous and offensive statement to both Christians and Muslims? because who except you would read that as an Arabic honorific, and not a proper name?

i can accept your explanation; sure am glad you qualified that statement & didn't ust leave it hanging out there.. and honestly it's an interesting point that i think you were trying to make, but i don't think it was the best way to say what you wanted to say. started a lot of discord that could have been avoided if you'd phrased that better. i guess you wanted to say something in a way that would grab people's attention, and you certainly succeeded in that regard
;) (!!)

that's all i want to say about this whole mess :p
 
Re: Wake up...

i read those too. what i read was that you say "Muhammed" literally means "praised one" and that in the Koran, that phrase refers to Jesus Christ.


Correct...


what i don't get is why you don't think it's irresponsible to say something like "Koranic Muhammed is Jesus Christ" mixing Arabic & English in a way that is so easily construed as a horrendously blasphemous and offensive statement to both Christians and Muslims? because who except you would read that as an Arabic honorific, and not a proper name?

That is why I prefaced Muhammad with 'Koranic' as opposed to Islamic.....because there is a difference between the two, of which, most people are ignorant.



i can accept your explanation; sure am glad you qualified that statement & didn't ust leave it hanging out there.. and honestly it's an interesting point that i think you were trying to make, but i don't think it was the best way to say what you wanted to say. started a lot of discord that could have been avoided if you'd phrased that better. i guess you wanted to say something in a way that would grab people's attention, and you certainly succeeded in that regard
;) (!!)

that's all i want to say about this whole mess :p


Indeed...it is revolutionary in terms of its importance.

According to my research, I am the first person (that I know of) to independently arrive at this conclusion. Many other scholars have likewise drawn the same, later.

This has profound implications for billions of people.
 
Re: Wake up...

Indeed...it is revolutionary in terms of its importance.

According to my research, I am the first person (that I know of) to independently arrive at this conclusion. Many other scholars have likewise drawn the same, later.

This has profound implications for billions of people.

what is it that you feel would undergo revolution?

to me, if Jesus appears in the Koran, that's similar to saying Jesus appears in the book of mormon... well, yes, he does... sort of...

or that Christ / Christ consciousness appears in the bhagavad gita...
 
Re: Wake up...

what is it that you feel would undergo revolution?

Its rather obvious.

Muslims would then become Christians.

Not by force...rather, by education of their very own scriptures.








to me, if Jesus appears in the Koran, that's similar to saying Jesus appears in the book of mormon... well, yes, he does... sort of...

or that Christ / Christ consciousness appears in the bhagavad gita...


Not even a direct compare.

For the Muslim to learn that the 'Muhammad' that they read about in their book of faith, was actually referring to the Biblical Jesus Christ, then that would be a life-changing event.
 




The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…



وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول

الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن

الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم

إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا​


Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son,“allah's”messenger”,and that they killed him,and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.






Copying verbatim from the internet, as you routinely do, is NOT research.

Real research can be defended....and I already tested your knowledge of your 'copy-paste-research'....and you fell completely flat...and now you have this gigantic vendetta chip on your shoulder, as you chase me from thread to thread...



Bump for Magenta.

She went off the deep-end demanding a detailed reply...and now she is no where to be found.