The Israel of God

[BradC]

TRUE OR FALSE:


1) "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student ] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." - C.I. Scofield

2) the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." - Charles Ryrie

It's hard to get rid of that 'dipsie veil' that continues to hang over your conscience.

 

[BradC]

the antichristian, antisemitic; antihumanity dogma of xtian zionism is coming down.
it starts with the dismantling of Dispensationalism.
like it or lump it BradC.

I am very surprised that you would even bring this up because it deals with spiritual warfare for the believer, something that you refrain from dealing with or having sound doctrine about because of your incessant and persistent doctrine that dogmatically declares that Satan is presently bound (and has been for the past 2,000 years) from deceiving the nations that are made of people and a rule of government they live under. You don't even consider that if Satan is bound from being the god of this world that the kingdoms of this earth would not have prospered without his leadership these past 2000 plus years and would be divided and eventually come to nothing. I don't think that anyone of us can say that we have evidence of this presently or historically. With Satan being bound just how can the gates of hell even attempt to prevail against the church? Do you have any idea how much of the NT scripture that you violate even thinking the way you do about Satan being bound? Any copy and paste you would provide from other sources that favor your doctrine, they would also be in violation as well. False premise will always lead to false conclusions every time.

 

[zone]

It's hard to get rid of that 'dipsie veil' that continues to hang over your conscience.

TRUE OR FALSE:


1) "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student ] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." - C.I. Scofield

2) the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." - Charles Ryrie

 

[zone]

With Satan being bound just how can the gates of hell even attempt to prevail against the church?

Matthew 16
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[starfield]

I am very surprised that you would even bring this up because it deals with spiritual warfare for the believer, something that you refrain from dealing with or having sound doctrine about because of your incessant and persistent doctrine that dogmatically declares that Satan is presently bound (and has been for the past 2,000 years) from deceiving the nations that are made of people and a rule of government they live under. You don't even consider that if Satan is bound from being the god of this world that the kingdoms of this earth would not have prospered without his leadership these past 2000 plus years and would be divided and eventually come to nothing. I don't think that anyone of us can say that we have evidence of this presently or historically. With Satan being bound just how can the gates of hell even attempt to prevail against the church? Do you have any idea how much of the NT scripture that you violate even thinking the way you do about Satan being bound? Any copy and paste you would provide from other sources that favor your doctrine, they would also be in violation as well. False premise will always lead to false conclusions every time.

What did Christ accomplish on the cross? Did Christ not come to defeat the works of Satan? Satan is presently bound such that He cannot hinder the spread of the gospel.
What do you think these verses mean:
Mark 3:23-27
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

John 12:30-33
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Colossians 2:14-15 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[BradC]

Matthew 16
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The gates of hell will make strategic attempts to prevail. They are highly organized and may not ultimately be successful but individuals and local ministries that make up the church will be hindered by the exploitation of sin and failure, others will be sifted as wheat so that Satan can have them where he wants, others will be faced with a roaring and devouring lion to consume believers with grief, fear, anxiety and depression, others with deception and self righteousness through a counterfeit angel of light, others with doctrines of demons to get them to depart from the faith, others will be slandered and maligned day and night, others will be obstructed by the love they have for the world preventing them from preaching the gospel and others will be discouraged through persecution. Satan will be actively behind it all and the author of all the confusion it will cause, because he knows his time is limited and he has not been bound in the Abyss but would rather have believers be taught and think that he is.

 

[zone]

 

[ChosenbyHim]

What did Christ accomplish on the cross? Did Christ not come to defeat the works of Satan? Satan is presently bound such that He cannot hinder the spread of the gospel.
What do you think these verses mean:
Mark 3:23-27
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

John 12:30-33
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Colossians 2:14-15 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Satan has already been judged. But he has not yet been bound in the bottomless pit. That won't take place until after the Great Tribulation (time of Jacob's trouble). (See Rev. 20:1-10).


Satan at this time still has access to the third Heaven and he still is walking about on the face of the Earth seeking whom he may devour.

 

[zone]

Satan has already been judged. But he has not yet been bound in the bottomless pit. That won't take place until after the Great Tribulation (time of Jacob's trouble). (See Rev. 20:1-10).

CHOSEN:

TRUE OR FALSE:


1) "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." - C.I. Scofield

true, or false.

2) the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." - Charles Ryrie

true, or false.

 

[zone]

Red33 or anyone else:

TRUE OR FALSE:


1) "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." - C.I. Scofield

true, or false.

2) the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." - Charles Ryrie

true, or false.

please address your founding fathers words.

 

[BradC]

BradC or anyone else:



please address your founding fathers words.

You keep lumping us together. You try to take away our individuality and our personal conviction we have through the indwelling Spirit, making it as if the Spirit is not able to give us the knowledge of the truth as God's precious possession. You take credit away from God and his ability to impart his truth to us through the written word and the Spirit and through those who have been given to the church. That does not bode well for you nor is there any edification in doing such a thing. Why not stop what you are doing and just move away from taking that route. You just might have some peace in doing so.

 

[zone]

You keep lumping us together. You try to take away our individuality and our personal conviction we have through the indwelling Spirit, making it as if the Spirit is not able to give us the knowledge of the truth as God's precious possession. You take credit away from God and his ability to impart his truth to us through the written word and the Spirit and through those who have been given to the church. That does not bode well for you nor is there any edification in doing such a thing. Why not stop what you are doing and just move away from taking that route. You just might have some peace in doing so.

you have quoted Ryrie extensively; as well as defending Scofield.
if your variety is different, you can clarify very easily by simply addressing the two assertions below.


TRUE OR FALSE:


1) "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." - C.I. Scofield

true, or false.

2) the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." - Charles Ryrie

true, or false.

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by zone
Isaiah 30:20
Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them.

what's "He will drink from a brook along the way"? an hebraism

and after he did that, did He "lift his head high"?

some people are getting saved. The Lord's friends are joyful He is King on His Throne ruling.
His enemies should be terrified.

a 1,000 year period of time after He comes to Judge is not required.
it's not written.

what? no thousand years? 4 times in this passage.

Revelation 20:2-5, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years--And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished; and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness of Yahshua and for the word of Yahweh and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his likeness, neither had received his mark in their foreheads nor upon their hands; and they lived and reigned with the Messiah a thousand years-- But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection--"

Amillennialism
Amillennialism (Greek: a- "no" + millennialism) is the view in Christian eschatology which states that Christ is presently reigning through the Church, and that the "1000 years" of Revelation 20:1-6 is a metaphorical reference to the present church age which will culminate in Christ's return. It stands in contrast to premillennialism, which states that Christ will return prior to a literal 1000 year earthly reign; and postmillennialism, which states that Christ's return will follow a 1000 year golden age ushered in by the church.

http://www.theopedia.com/Amillennialism < click short overview

I dont understand what you view is, are you saying this 1000 years is past already?

 

[BradC]

Satan has already been judged. But he has not yet been bound in the bottomless pit. That won't take place until after the Great Tribulation (time of Jacob's trouble). (See Rev. 20:1-10).


Satan at this time still has access to the third Heaven and he still is walking about on the face of the Earth seeking whom he may devour.

The delayed execution of that final judgment will not take place until after the 1,000 year reign is consummated and Satan is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev 20:10) with the beast and the false prophet are, being cast there 1,000 years prior (Rev 19:20).

 

[RuthHannah]

Satan has already been judged. But he has not yet been bound in the bottomless pit. That won't take place until after the Great Tribulation (time of Jacob's trouble). (See Rev. 20:1-10).

[h=3]

[/h]
[h=3]Revelation 12:7-8[/h]King James Version (KJV)

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Satan at this time still has access to the third Heaven and he still is walking about on the face of the Earth seeking whom he may devour.


The devil was cast out in the begining
thy will be done on earth as itis in heaven the cleansing of the heaven and the a future cleansing of the earth

the devil never had access to the 3rd heavens when he was cast out in genesis

 

[ChosenbyHim]

The delayed execution of that final judgment will not take place until after the 1,000 year reign is consummated and Satan is cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev 20:10) with the beast and the false prophet are, being cast there 1,000 years prior (Rev 19:20).

Hi there Brad, that is correct. I understand and see where you are coming from. While the prince of this world has already been judged (John 16:11), his punishment and sentence Will be carried out after the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

the devil never had access to the 3rd heavens when he was cast out in genesis

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If that is the case RuthHannah, then what about Job 1:6-12?


Job 1:6-12 KJV

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. [7] And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. [8] And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? [9] Then Satan answered the Lord , and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? [10] Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. [11] But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. [12] And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord .

 

[ChosenbyHim]

RuthHannah,

Revelation 12:7-8 has not been fulfilled yet. It will be fulfilled though in the middle of the time of Jacob's trouble (half way through the tribulation).

 

[BradC]

Originally Posted by zone
Isaiah 30:20
Although the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, your teachers will be hidden no more; with your own eyes you will see them.

what's "He will drink from a brook along the way"? an hebraism

and after he did that, did He "lift his head high"?

some people are getting saved. The Lord's friends are joyful He is King on His Throne ruling.
His enemies should be terrified.

a 1,000 year period of time after He comes to Judge is not required.
it's not written.






I dont understand what you view is, are you saying this 1000 years is past already?

We never contrast error with truth in the same way we don't contrast light with darkness. Darkness is the absence of light. Zone and many others like to contrast so that their view will be justified and the other made unacceptable and disapproved. Zone wants you to believe that we are living in that 1,000 year period that has been going on now for the past 2,000 plus years with no end in sight. She can't explain why this period of time has taken so long before culminating into the return of Christ so she makes it a metaphorical reference to justify her amillennial doctrine. Rev 20 is all messed up for her if she does not do that. She still has many things in that chapter and in chapter 19 that she can't explain with any kind of certainty or consistancy and it effects what she understands about the judgments and the resurrections that take place in scripture. She has been doing this for awhile and is good at doing it, very persuasive but always operates with the wrong premise. Good luck in trying to make sense of what she says.

 

[zone]

me an da jesuits invented amil.