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The Key Issue We've All Been Ignoring ....PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT(TONGUES)
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obedienttogod
Guest
This young boy has much to learn: His claim NO JEW, NO SIGNS = NO TONGUES:
From the Disciple of John (who wrote Revelations): And PROOF Revelations was written AFTER 70 A.D. because John's Disciple was born in 70 A.D. and not able to be John's Disciple in 70 A.D.
GENTILE POLYCARP DISCIPLE OF THE APOSTLE JOHN (A.D. 70-155), who was himself a disciple of the Apostle John[/b], wrote: "in like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual', they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit".
Evidence of Tongues and Spiritual Gifts of the Gentiles No Jews involved:
90 A.D.
Clement of Rome (died 100?) reminded the Corinthians that "a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was upon you all." (Clement of Rome, First Epistle to the Corinthians, 2, ANF, I, 5
107 A.D.
- Ignatius wrote to the church at Smyrna: "Ignatius... to the Church of God the Father, and of the beloved Jesus Christ, which has through mercy obtained every kind of gift, which is filled with faith and love, and is deficient in no gift, most worthy of God, and adorned with holiness... Be ye strong, I pray, in the power of the Holy Ghost." (Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, superscription & 12, ANF I, 86 & 92.)
- GENTILE POLYCARP DISCIPLE OF THE APOSTLE JOHN (A.D. 70-155), who was himself a disciple of the Apostle John[/b], wrote: "in like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual', they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit".
- Justin Martyr wrote, "For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time... Now it is possible to see amongst us women and men who possess gifts of the Spirit of God." (Justin, Dialogue with Trypho, 82 & 88, ANF, I, 240 & 243)
- Irenaeus "[T]he perfect man consists in the commingling and the union of the soul receiving the spirit of the Father... For this reason does the apostle declare, 'We speak wisdom among them that are perfect,' terming those persons 'perfect' who have received the Spirit of God, and who through the Spirit of God do speak in all languages, as he used [h]imself also to speak. In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the Church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages... whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual,' they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5.6.1, ANF, I, 531.)
176 A.D.
- Celsus, a pagan, wrote near the end of the second century that Christians in his day spoke in tongues. The theologian Origen preserved his testimony. (Origen, Against Celsus, 7.9, ANF IV, 614, quoting Celsus, The Discourse. Origen, Commentary on John, 2.6, ANF; X, 329.)
- A pagan philosopher, Celsus, well acquainted with Christianity and its heretical aberrations, unwittingly provides us with significant observations among the Christians as seen from the outside. It was toward the end of the second century that he wrote his True Discourse, which survives in the pages of Origen's Contra Celsum. Origen (d. c. 254), an Alexandrian biblical scholar and a prolific writer, quotes Celsus as testifying that people spoke in tongues in his day: "To these promises are added strange, fanatical, and quite unintelligible words, of which no rational person can find the meaning: for so dark are they, as to have no meaning at all; but they give occasion to every fool or impostor to apply them to suit his own purpose. (Origen, Against Celsus, VII, ix, ANF, IV, 614.) (The Charismatic Movement, 1975, Michael P. Hamilton, p 67)
This list continues throughout the ages:
K
KnowMe
Guest
This young boy has much to learn: His claim NO JEW, NO SIGNS = NO TONGUES:
From the Disciple of John (who wrote Revelations): And PROOF Revelations was written AFTER 70 A.D. because John's Disciple was born in 70 A.D. and not able to be John's Disciple in 70 A.D.
GENTILE POLYCARP DISCIPLE OF THE APOSTLE JOHN (A.D. 70-155), who was himself a disciple of the Apostle John[/b], wrote: "in like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual', they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit".
Evidence of Tongues and Spiritual Gifts of the Gentiles No Jews involved:
90 A.D.
Clement of Rome (died 100?) reminded the Corinthians that "a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was upon you all." (Clement of Rome, First Epistle to the Corinthians, 2, ANF, I, 5
107 A.D.
110 A.D
- Ignatius wrote to the church at Smyrna: "Ignatius... to the Church of God the Father, and of the beloved Jesus Christ, which has through mercy obtained every kind of gift, which is filled with faith and love, and is deficient in no gift, most worthy of God, and adorned with holiness... Be ye strong, I pray, in the power of the Holy Ghost." (Ignatius, Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, superscription & 12, ANF I, 86 & 92.)
- GENTILE POLYCARP DISCIPLE OF THE APOSTLE JOHN (A.D. 70-155), who was himself a disciple of the Apostle John[/b], wrote: "in like manner do we also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual', they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit".
120 - 205 A.D.
- Justin Martyr wrote, "For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time... Now it is possible to see amongst us women and men who possess gifts of the Spirit of God." (Justin, Dialogue with Trypho, 82 & 88, ANF, I, 240 & 243)
THIS EXAMPLE IS THE VERY BEST BECAUSE HE IS A NON BELIEVER WHO BELIEVED IN HIS GREEK DEITIES: HE IS ALSO ANOTHER SOURCE OF THE GREEKS I USE TO PROVE YESHUA EXISTED TO NON BELIEVERS TO THOSE WHO THINK YESHUA WAS JUST A MYTH. BUT HERE IS THE GREEK PAGAN PHILOSOPHER, CELSUS:
- Irenaeus "[T]he perfect man consists in the commingling and the union of the soul receiving the spirit of the Father... For this reason does the apostle declare, 'We speak wisdom among them that are perfect,' terming those persons 'perfect' who have received the Spirit of God, and who through the Spirit of God do speak in all languages, as he used [h]imself also to speak. In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the Church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages... whom also the apostle terms 'spiritual,' they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5.6.1, ANF, I, 531.)
176 A.D.
- Celsus, a pagan, wrote near the end of the second century that Christians in his day spoke in tongues. The theologian Origen preserved his testimony. (Origen, Against Celsus, 7.9, ANF IV, 614, quoting Celsus, The Discourse. Origen, Commentary on John, 2.6, ANF; X, 329.)
- A pagan philosopher, Celsus, well acquainted with Christianity and its heretical aberrations, unwittingly provides us with significant observations among the Christians as seen from the outside. It was toward the end of the second century that he wrote his True Discourse, which survives in the pages of Origen's Contra Celsum. Origen (d. c. 254), an Alexandrian biblical scholar and a prolific writer, quotes Celsus as testifying that people spoke in tongues in his day: "To these promises are added strange, fanatical, and quite unintelligible words, of which no rational person can find the meaning: for so dark are they, as to have no meaning at all; but they give occasion to every fool or impostor to apply them to suit his own purpose. (Origen, Against Celsus, VII, ix, ANF, IV, 614.) (The Charismatic Movement, 1975, Michael P. Hamilton, p 67)
This list continues throughout the ages:
I find it humorous even Celsius could see the difference as in imposters, lol.
That's right...
1 Corinthians 12:11 KJV
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
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obedienttogod
Guest
You obviously have never read his work. To discredit Yeshua's miracles, he said Yeshua went to Egypt and learned magic.
He made fun of whatever represented God.
And you laughing at his work and not understanding anything about it shows your level of ignorance.
Do you believe Celsus, that Yeshua performed MAGIC?
That is what he said:
Against Celsus preserved entirely in Greek, is a major apologetics work by the Church Father ... He had accused Jesus of performing his miracles using black magic rather than actual divine powers and of plagiarizing his teachings from Plato.
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obedienttogod
Guest
Just like another Greek, Lucian:
He wrote the Christians still to the day believe in a man who taught to deny the gods of Greece. They call themselves brothers and think nothing of being poor.
The Greek humor like Celsus did ends with Lucian saying, if a worldly man would meet the Christians he could make his fortune from them because they are the dumbest people alive.
You clearly do not know history or Ancient Greece!!
He wrote the Christians still to the day believe in a man who taught to deny the gods of Greece. They call themselves brothers and think nothing of being poor.
The Greek humor like Celsus did ends with Lucian saying, if a worldly man would meet the Christians he could make his fortune from them because they are the dumbest people alive.
You clearly do not know history or Ancient Greece!!
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Test all spirits to see if they are from God
How can one test a prayer one can not understand, and when their is no interpretor?
Yes, thats correct. You can not.
Conclusion
It can not be from God. For God is not the author of confusion. And he would never ask us to participate in something in which one can not “test the spirit” as he commands.
How can one test a prayer one can not understand, and when their is no interpretor?
Yes, thats correct. You can not.
Conclusion
It can not be from God. For God is not the author of confusion. And he would never ask us to participate in something in which one can not “test the spirit” as he commands.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
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UnderGrace
Guest
Wow. Someone sure hates baptists!!
I wonder why
Oh, I know, maybe because historically speaking they did not throw reason and intellect out the window when interpreting scripture, unlike some modern day denominations where scripture is made to retrofit the supposed "spiritual" phenomena and using reason is frowned upon.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I wonder if he got asked to leave their church, most baptist haters I know were excommunicated from their church due to some major sin issue or something. (Of course most of them left God they did not go over to some other church. And start bashing)I wonder why
Oh, I know, maybe because historically speaking they did not throw reason and intellect out the window when interpreting scripture, unlike some modern day denominations where scripture is made to retrofit the supposed "spiritual" phenomena and using reason is frowned upon.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Could be however, when someone is so tightly invested in supposed "spiritual manifestations" truth can be very threatening.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
True, There is a reason the scripture warns us about those things.
The Holy Spirit came was released into the earth following Jesus's ascension into heaven and it is by the Holy Spirit that we speak in tongues. For this reason, Jesus did not speak in tongues.
Secondly, speaking in tongues is ABSOLUTELY praying the Spirit, unless you believe the Bible to be untrue? Let me quote you some Bible verses to back it up.
(Paul talking about tongues) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels... (1 Corinthians 13:1).
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful (1 Corinthians 14:14).
Clear as day.
Is not faith believing in things unseen? It is our Lord Jesus, Yeshua, Who sent His Spirit to each of us to be part of His Timple Temre He resides. Let uks always praise God and pray as He leads us......as He has ordered things so they be.
J
jaybird88
Guest
1st all the spirit has always been here since the beginning, when the Most High was forming this world His spirit moved over this world and gave it form, and people have always had the spirit, men like Elijah, Samuel, and Moses had the spirit. and they didnt speak in an angel language BTW.
if according to you this spirit language is the ultimate way to pray than Jesus should have been praying in this way all the time, He did not and neither did the 12.
Jesus is the way, the example, and there are no examples of Jesus praying in the angel language.
Jesus gave teachings on prayer, never did He mention an angel language.
the bible has many many many examples of angels coming down here and they always spoke in the common language of who they were sent to.
sorry but those passages have nothhing to do with praying in an angel / spirit language. the first passage is not Paul teaching on angel language, its a teaching on love. the 2nd is about praying in general. just because you see the word "tongue" dont get confused, tongue just means language. in order for the passage to teach what you think it teaches you would have to edit the passage and add "angel" in front of tongues, then it would be teaching "angel language" prayer, however it does not say that.
IMO you have a bad case of wishful thinking. if you wish to make funny noises when you pray i would never tell you different, but dont teach others this is something biblical.
Not getting his point. He is saying that by personal experience he had a change of heart for one the Presidents and compares that to no love no grace?
How does that relate the manner of prophecy called tongues? And how would that hearing of prophecy fit in with other manners like that of Balaam's Ass used to in a ceremonial law to represent natural unconverted man, typified as needing to be redeemed by a lamb.(redemption) To establish God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form. He has no needs but satisfies all. .
This is as if the kingdom did come by observation and we were not shown to the world we approved of God by walking by faith the eternal labor of His love that we rest in..
Someone shared the fact that he had been systmatically pursued by an older member of his own family to kill without success. It began when he was three and the stalker was nine. He hanged him once and the cotton rope broke leaving a terrible rope burn on the neck. He later attempted to electrocut him asking him to hold two wires on a transformer. The proposed victim, though very young, would not touch them. The victim later in life was put into a well but he screamed and hollered so much the antagonist pulled him out fearing to be caught. And other attmpts were made, some leaving permanent damage. The victim praye and prayed for his brother to be saved, but would not have contact with him for fear it may raise old animosities.. Finaly his brother passed on but those around him, very few, relat that he found Jesus or Jesus found him about three months before he passed on.
Forgiveness is necessary fro all who believe if they wish to receive it, but this does not translate as being in the way of abuse like a dummy. Of course wll who believe will be abused and suffer with our Lord in one manner or another. Most suffer in the hopes of so many who are perishing to be saved. Of course we forgive all, but to forget is playing the fool. Praise God now and eternally, amen.
Forgiveness is necessary fro all who believe if they wish to receive it, but this does not translate as being in the way of abuse like a dummy. Of course wll who believe will be abused and suffer with our Lord in one manner or another. Most suffer in the hopes of so many who are perishing to be saved. Of course we forgive all, but to forget is playing the fool. Praise God now and eternally, amen.