The Law as a School MASTER

[gotime]

I find that many have made a grave mistake by putting any obedience in the same boat as the self righteous teachers of the law.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I suggest you actually study a little more Kenneth as an aorist tense verb and the verb tense in John 3:16 points to a present continuing result from a past completed action...we do not work to gain salvation.....we are saved and work because we are saved....you view is heretical Kenneth.......period......

He that believeth on the SON HATH EVERLASTING LIFE...period......keep trusting your works KENNETH and it will not be good for you.....

I believe JESUS when he said the above bolded....

And I would suggest you get away from your man made teaching system you have been lead in and let the Holy Spirit guide in knowledge instead.
For your reasoning makes no sense, a present continuing from a past completed action. You can not have both as it is either present and continuing as pisteuo means, but it can not also mean a past completed action to. For the full definition which I gave says that it leads to obtaining something, and in this case it is salvation through Christ.

The only thing that is past and completed is the Lord's crucifixion on the cross to give us remission of sins.
Then the Lord gives us the milk of the word on how one receives that remission of sins so that one can be reconciled to God and be given eternal life. He says first you have to repent of your sins, second He says to get baptized and then you get remission of sins. Peter in Acts restates this process of repentance and baptism to receive remission of sins present and past by the Lord. John in 1 John tells us that confession for future sins still have to be made to receive remission for them in order to be cleansed of that unrighteousness.

Then like I mentioned previously the Lord also gave other needs to be done within the milk of the word, and that is to keep and obey the two greatest commands to love Him and others. Then He also said to forgive others and keep your confession in Him before others, or you will not be forgiven and be denied by Him.

Then He went on to say He had more to say but told the Apostles they could not handle it yet because they were still struggling with the milk of the word He gave them. He charged Paul to give the meat of the word, and what Paul did was clearly break it down to how we can and can not walk in the faith.

Remember people have limited or watered it down to just believers and unbelievers, yet the Lord and Paul both speak of 3 categories; believers, disobedient, and unbelievers. Only one in those groups gets eternal life, and that is the believers who are obedient in the faith.

 

[gotime]

I remember once talking to God, my question was simple, how is it even possible to stop sinning?

God pulled me up and said "what does it have to do with you?" this was so profound to me at the time and then God brought this scripture to mind:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


then It was like a conversation and God asked me this, "how many sins can a dead man commit?" I replied "none"

Then God said, "how many good works can a dead man do?" I said, "none"

then God said, "how many sins will my son commit?" I answered, "none"

then God said, "how many good deeds will my son do?" I said, "all of them, He would only do good"

Then It hit me I just have to have faith in this and God will preform it through Jesus Christ.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Romans 13:9-11
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
For the commandments, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.[/FONT]
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrews 10:38-39

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Luke 9:23,24
23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself,and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Following Christ by denying one's self and taking up our cross daily is a full commitment to Him in faith surrendering our life into His hands while trusting in Him alone to save us completely and while crucifying the flesh and it's desires through the Spirit....... Denying one's self and following Christ is not just something we do for a hour or two here or there while attempting to save our life against His command to lose it and certainly can not be achieved through mental accent to 10 commandments or through vain works and traditions of men who teach works based salvation through carnal reasoning of the scriptures; it requires true faith in Christ to save us sinners while dying to ourselves through His Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-24
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Not fleshly mental accent of belief coupled with vain works (the just will live by faith).......
vain works done without the Spirit are just dead works....... just as faith without the works of the Spirit is dead faith.

 

[michael56]

And I would suggest you get away from your man made teaching system you have been lead in and let the Holy Spirit guide in knowledge instead.
For your reasoning makes no sense, a present continuing from a past completed action. You can not have both as it is either present and continuing as pisteuo means, but it can not also mean a past completed action to. For the full definition which I gave says that it leads to obtaining something, and in this case it is salvation through Christ.

The only thing that is past and completed is the Lord's crucifixion on the cross to give us remission of sins.
Then the Lord gives us the milk of the word on how one receives that remission of sins so that one can be reconciled to God and be given eternal life. He says first you have to repent of your sins, second He says to get baptized and then you get remission of sins. Peter in Acts restates this process of repentance and baptism to receive remission of sins present and past by the Lord. John in 1 John tells us that confession for future sins still have to be made to receive remission for them in order to be cleansed of that unrighteousness.

Then like I mentioned previously the Lord also gave other needs to be done within the milk of the word, and that is to keep and obey the two greatest commands to love Him and others. Then He also said to forgive others and keep your confession in Him before others, or you will not be forgiven and be denied by Him.

Then He went on to say He had more to say but told the Apostles they could not handle it yet because they were still struggling with the milk of the word He gave them. He charged Paul to give the meat of the word, and what Paul did was clearly break it down to how we can and can not walk in the faith.

Remember people have limited or watered it down to just believers and unbelievers, yet the Lord and Paul both speak of 3 categories; believers, disobedient, and unbelievers. Only one in those groups gets eternal life, and that is the believers who are obedient in the faith.

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I been gone for a bit, but I see DC opened another can of worms, and is preaching the word.

Amen bro. Paul makes it clear in galations. Like the jews, many of us grew up in christian homes, had the word, had active correction when we disobeyed our parents. Knew and understood we do not lie cheat or steal, Were seen by those around us as goody two shoes, someone who did not want to play in sin, Yet what good did it do us, or the jews for that fact, when it comes to eternity.

As paul said. It is good we grew up like that, and not like the child in the house of sin, But it does not help us in any way.
For by no law can we be saved, but the law was given to prove that every person who ever lived has sinned, and lead us to the one thing which can save us. Christ.

The problem with legalism is the law does not do what it was intended to do for them. Shut their mouths. They keep preaching how righteous they are and fail to see, even in their present life, how totally undeserving of Gods love and forgiveness they are.

They may sound christlike, they may preach a good word. But they will never be christlike, or teach a true word (concerning the gospel) because they fail to see the depravity of their own soul apart from the grace of God. and in turn, can only speak blasphemy and religion, which is so far apposed to God. it will lead people to hell.

 

[michael56]

I been gone for a bit, but I see DC opened another can of worms, and is preaching the word.

Amen bro. Paul makes it clear in galations. Like the jews, many of us grew up in christian homes, had the word, had active correction when we disobeyed our parents. Knew and understood we do not lie cheat or steal, Were seen by those around us as goody two shoes, someone who did not want to play in sin, Yet what good did it do us, or the jews for that fact, when it comes to eternity.

As paul said. It is good we grew up like that, and not like the child in the house of sin, But it does not help us in any way.
For by no law can we be saved, but the law was given to prove that every person who ever lived has sinned, and lead us to the one thing which can save us. Christ.

The problem with legalism is the law does not do what it was intended to do for them. Shut their mouths. They keep preaching how righteous they are and fail to see, even in their present life, how totally undeserving of Gods love and forgiveness they are.

They may sound christlike, they may preach a good word. But they will never be christlike, or teach a true word (concerning the gospel) because they fail to see the depravity of their own soul apart from the grace of God. and in turn, can only speak blasphemy and religion, which is so far apposed to God. it will lead people to hell.

That is very true. But I would add, some sit in church each week crushed by their inability, in effect to obey the laws demands.
For myself, I felt alive before I responded to an altar call at a young age-but then:

I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived,(or sin consciousness sprang to life) and I died(I felt condemned).
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life(if I could obey it), I found to be unto death(for I could not keep it).
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Rom 7:7-11

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is very true. But I would add, some sit in church each week crushed by their inability, in effect to obey the laws demands.
For myself, I felt alive before I responded to an altar call at a young age-but then:

I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived,(or sin consciousness sprang to life) and I died(I felt condemned).
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life(if I could obey it), I found to be unto death(for I could not keep it).
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Rom 7:7-11

this is true, and why I hate legalism with a passion. I grew up like this, a failure, nothing I did could get me to live up to the standard imposed on me, I tried and tried, even in my young christian life after I came to christ, this still bugged me, and ended up being the reason I left God, left the church, and said why bother, and wasted 5 years of my life until someone finally showed me true grace, I spent a few years kicking and screaming, not buying it, but finally realised the truth of the matter.

It is not me in Christ, it is Christ in me.

I can come to God because he is my abba, I do not have to fear.

 

[michael56]

this is true, and why I hate legalism with a passion. I grew up like this, a failure, nothing I did could get me to live up to the standard imposed on me, I tried and tried, even in my young christian life after I came to christ, this still bugged me, and ended up being the reason I left God, left the church, and said why bother, and wasted 5 years of my life until someone finally showed me true grace,

The above is the mirror image of myself. I don't know about you, but I find few seem to understand this. It is mainly those who have been to churches termed ''born again'' churches that experience this it seems.
I might be wrong, but when I chat to most others from different denominations they seem puzzled I should tell them what you have written above. I guess to me the most lethal, and dangerous churches are those who stress righteous living the most, but fail alongside that to preach the grace of the bible. It so often leaves people in the state Paul was in in the verses I quoted. It is tragic, he was speaking as a Pharisee pre conversion to Christianity. So many in reality try to be Christians as he tried to attain to Heaven as a Pharisee

 

[kennethcadwell]

this is true, and why I hate legalism with a passion. I grew up like this, a failure, nothing I did could get me to live up to the standard imposed on me, I tried and tried, even in my young christian life after I came to christ, this still bugged me, and ended up being the reason I left God, left the church, and said why bother, and wasted 5 years of my life until someone finally showed me true grace, I spent a few years kicking and screaming, not buying it, but finally realised the truth of the matter.

It is not me in Christ, it is Christ in me.

I can come to God because he is my abba, I do not have to fear.

That is right that we by ourselves can do nothing to live up to His standards.
The issue that I have with people who still speak though like the Apostles when they answered Jesus with their doubt who can be saved then. They questioned Jesus because they felt His commands were impossible to keep.
Lord Jesus answered them with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. The reason for this answer He gave to them is because we are not by ourselves being born again. Christ abides in us through His Holy Spirit, and the bible clearly says He will guide, help, and even give us God's knowledge to us to understand His words and way for our lives. Paul even says in we are to seek the Holy Spirit for His knowledge, and not seek through man made systems for His knowledge.

 

[michael56]

That is right that we by ourselves can do nothing to live up to His standards.
The issue that I have with people who still speak though like the Apostles when they answered Jesus with their doubt who can be saved then. They questioned Jesus because they felt His commands were impossible to keep.
Lord Jesus answered them with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. .

The actual question was, who can be saved if not for a rich man. Jesus replied, with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is right that we by ourselves can do nothing to live up to His standards.
The issue that I have with people who still speak though like the Apostles when they answered Jesus with their doubt who can be saved then. They questioned Jesus because they felt His commands were impossible to keep.
Lord Jesus answered them with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. The reason for this answer He gave to them is because we are not by ourselves being born again. Christ abides in us through His Holy Spirit, and the bible clearly says He will guide, help, and even give us God's knowledge to us to understand His words and way for our lives. Paul even says in we are to seek the Holy Spirit for His knowledge, and not seek through man made systems for His knowledge.

true,

the problem is no man does this 24/7. thus no man can be sinless 24/7. and since this is the case. no man can ever be at the point they can earn salvation. or lose salvation, because every man is in the same boat.

when we start comparing ourselves to others like the pharisees did, to determine how good we are, we lose sight of Gods law. and fail to see how totally inept we are. and totally deserving of Gods wrath.

saying one MUST be good to be saved sounds good. But it distracts from Gods truth, that we can never be good enough, no matter how hard we try, thats why legalism is so dangerous.

 

[dcontroversal]

And I would suggest you get away from your man made teaching system you have been lead in and let the Holy Spirit guide in knowledge instead.
For your reasoning makes no sense, a present continuing from a past completed action. You can not have both as it is either present and continuing as pisteuo means, but it can not also mean a past completed action to. For the full definition which I gave says that it leads to obtaining something, and in this case it is salvation through Christ.

The only thing that is past and completed is the Lord's crucifixion on the cross to give us remission of sins.
Then the Lord gives us the milk of the word on how one receives that remission of sins so that one can be reconciled to God and be given eternal life. He says first you have to repent of your sins, second He says to get baptized and then you get remission of sins. Peter in Acts restates this process of repentance and baptism to receive remission of sins present and past by the Lord. John in 1 John tells us that confession for future sins still have to be made to receive remission for them in order to be cleansed of that unrighteousness.

Then like I mentioned previously the Lord also gave other needs to be done within the milk of the word, and that is to keep and obey the two greatest commands to love Him and others. Then He also said to forgive others and keep your confession in Him before others, or you will not be forgiven and be denied by Him.

Then He went on to say He had more to say but told the Apostles they could not handle it yet because they were still struggling with the milk of the word He gave them. He charged Paul to give the meat of the word, and what Paul did was clearly break it down to how we can and can not walk in the faith.

Remember people have limited or watered it down to just believers and unbelievers, yet the Lord and Paul both speak of 3 categories; believers, disobedient, and unbelievers. Only one in those groups gets eternal life, and that is the believers who are obedient in the faith.

Kenneth...I will say this as easy as I can.......the above bolded shows your complete ignorance of the Greek language and the verb tenses used.......I really suggest you study and open your eyes......a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED action is indicated, taught and known by the verb tenses that have been USED.......the only reason you cannot, nor will accept the truth of this is because it contradicts your false theology!

PAY ATTENETION TO THE BOLDED BELOW AND OPEN YOUR EYES!


[h=2]Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)[/h]Just like Greek nouns, the Greek verb also changes form (the Greek 'spelling', so to speak). The form changes based upon the subject of the verb and the kind of action indicated. As was mentioned earlier, Greek is a fully "inflected language." Each Greek word actually changes form (inflection) based upon the role that it plays in the sentence. The stem of the verb shows the basic meaning or action of the word, but the ending (or ‘suffix’) changes to show various details. Not only the ending of the verb may change, but the verb form may have a ‘prefix’ added to the beginning of the verbal stem. Sometimes the actual stem of the verb may change or may add an ‘infix’ to indicate certain other details.
The prefix, suffix, and verbal stem all combine together to define a certain form of a verb. Each verb form indicates a specific meaning. There are five basic parts (or aspects) that are clearly defined or indicated by every Greek verb form. These five parts are: Person, Number, Tense, Voice, and Mood. See below for details of these five aspects of Greek verbs.


[h=4]Verb Tenses[/h]Time & "Kind of Action" in Greek Verbs:
In English, and in most other languages, the tense of the verb mainly refers to the 'time' of the action of the verb (present, past, or future time). In Greek, however, although time does bear upon the meaning of tense, the primary consideration of the tense of the verb is not time, but rather the 'kind of action' that the verb portrays. The most important element in Greek tense is kind of action; time is regarded as a secondary element. For this reason, many grammarians have adopted the German word 'aktionsart' (kind of action) to be able to more easily refer to this phenomenon of Greek verbs.
The kind of action (aktionsart) of a Greek verb will generally fall into one of three categories:
1) Continuous (or 'Progressive') kind of action.
2) Completed (or 'Accomplished) kind of action, with continuing results.
3)Simple occurrence, (or 'Summary occurrence') without reference to the question of progress. (This is sometimes referred to as 'Punctiliar' kind of action , but it is a misnomer to thus imply that, in every instance, the action only happened at one point of time. This can be true, but it is often dependent on other factors such as the meaning of the verb, other words in the context, etc.).

Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

I CAN POST MORE proof .....I suggest you know what you are talking about before you start mouthing KENNETH!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth...I will say this as easy as I can.......the above bolded shows your complete ignorance of the Greek language and the verb tenses used.......I really suggest you study and open your eyes......a present continuing result from a past COMPLETED action is indicated, taught and known by the verb tenses that have been USED.......the only reason you cannot, nor will accept the truth of this is because it contradicts your false theology!

PAY ATTENETION TO THE BOLDED BELOW AND OPEN YOUR EYES!


Greek Verbs (Shorter Definitions)

Just like Greek nouns, the Greek verb also changes form (the Greek 'spelling', so to speak). The form changes based upon the subject of the verb and the kind of action indicated. As was mentioned earlier, Greek is a fully "inflected language." Each Greek word actually changes form (inflection) based upon the role that it plays in the sentence. The stem of the verb shows the basic meaning or action of the word, but the ending (or ‘suffix’) changes to show various details. Not only the ending of the verb may change, but the verb form may have a ‘prefix’ added to the beginning of the verbal stem. Sometimes the actual stem of the verb may change or may add an ‘infix’ to indicate certain other details.
The prefix, suffix, and verbal stem all combine together to define a certain form of a verb. Each verb form indicates a specific meaning. There are five basic parts (or aspects) that are clearly defined or indicated by every Greek verb form. These five parts are: Person, Number, Tense, Voice, and Mood. See below for details of these five aspects of Greek verbs.


Verb Tenses

Time & "Kind of Action" in Greek Verbs:
In English, and in most other languages, the tense of the verb mainly refers to the 'time' of the action of the verb (present, past, or future time). In Greek, however, although time does bear upon the meaning of tense, the primary consideration of the tense of the verb is not time, but rather the 'kind of action' that the verb portrays. The most important element in Greek tense is kind of action; time is regarded as a secondary element. For this reason, many grammarians have adopted the German word 'aktionsart' (kind of action) to be able to more easily refer to this phenomenon of Greek verbs.
The kind of action (aktionsart) of a Greek verb will generally fall into one of three categories:
1) Continuous (or 'Progressive') kind of action.
2) Completed (or 'Accomplished) kind of action, with continuing results.
3)Simple occurrence, (or 'Summary occurrence') without reference to the question of progress. (This is sometimes referred to as 'Punctiliar' kind of action , but it is a misnomer to thus imply that, in every instance, the action only happened at one point of time. This can be true, but it is often dependent on other factors such as the meaning of the verb, other words in the context, etc.).

Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

I CAN POST MORE proof .....I suggest you know what you are talking about before you start mouthing KENNETH!

You are the one who starts the mouthing Dconn, and I have studied the Greek word pisteuo and have gave its full definition. Your statement about completed action has nothing to do with pisteuo, as the definition which I have given multiple times showing its full definition and how it is used.
And it clearly states that it is a continuation of belief in Jesus leading to salvation, not a completed act that has continuing results. For if your belief in Him does not continue then neither does the result of headed to salvation. I gave you another scripture in a previous post from Hebrews that speaks of those who draw back to perdition. Drawing back to perdition means living a life leading to spiritual death, and not eternal life. Hebrews once again goes with what Paul said that we must continue and stay firm in the faith to receive salvation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

true,

the problem is no man does this 24/7. thus no man can be sinless 24/7. and since this is the case. no man can ever be at the point they can earn salvation. or lose salvation, because every man is in the same boat.

when we start comparing ourselves to others like the pharisees did, to determine how good we are, we lose sight of Gods law. and fail to see how totally inept we are. and totally deserving of Gods wrath.

saying one MUST be good to be saved sounds good. But it distracts from Gods truth, that we can never be good enough, no matter how hard we try, thats why legalism is so dangerous.

We don't compare ourselves to others, but we do and are called to look upon others to see if they are walking properly in the faith or not. And if they are not we are charged to call them out and help them to change from walking the impure lifestyle. If they refuse after one on one, 2-3 on one, bringing them in front of the whole congregation, then Paul goes further within the meat of the word showing that if those steps fail then they are to be cast out of the church.
Apostle Paul constantly gives warnings of sin to believers because they do have impact on a believers life, because one can state belief in the Lord but if they live in a disobedient lifestyle of a sin nature then the Lord says clearly the disobedient will be appointed a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers.
Then you bring up the lose salvation issue which will always be a hot topic, but those who preach and teach some can lose salvation are not teaching falsely as some say. For there is many scriptures that support this from Judas all the way to the epistle of Jude who's whole book is about salvation. Then in Hebrews mentions those who draw back to perdition, meaning they fell back to a sinful lifestyle leading to the second death.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are the one who starts the mouthing Dconn, and I have studied the Greek word pisteuo and have gave its full definition. Your statement about completed action has nothing to do with pisteuo, as the definition which I have given multiple times showing its full definition and how it is used.
And it clearly states that it is a continuation of belief in Jesus leading to salvation, not a completed act that has continuing results. For if your belief in Him does not continue then neither does the result of headed to salvation. I gave you another scripture in a previous post from Hebrews that speaks of those who draw back to perdition. Drawing back to perdition means living a life leading to spiritual death, and not eternal life. Hebrews once again goes with what Paul said that we must continue and stay firm in the faith to receive salvation.

The following still continues to show your inability to accept any given truth that CONTRADICTS your heretical stance....for once in your life ACCEPT the truth that PROVES YOU ARE IN ERROR DUDE!

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell And I would suggest you get away from your man made teaching system you have been lead in and let the Holy Spirit guide in knowledge instead.
For your reasoning makes no sense, a present continuing from a past completed action. You can not have both as it is either present and continuing as pisteuo means, but it can not also mean a past completed action to. For the full definition which I gave says that it leads to obtaining something, and in this case it is salvation through Christ.



Verb Tenses

Time & "Kind of Action" in Greek Verbs:
In English, and in most other languages, the tense of the verb mainly refers to the 'time' of the action of the verb (present, past, or future time). In Greek, however, although time does bear upon the meaning of tense, the primary consideration of the tense of the verb is not time, but rather the 'kind of action' that the verb portrays. The most important element in Greek tense is kind of action; time is regarded as a secondary element. For this reason, many grammarians have adopted the German word 'aktionsart' (kind of action) to be able to more easily refer to this phenomenon of Greek verbs.
The kind of action (aktionsart) of a Greek verb will generally fall into one of three categories:
1) Continuous (or 'Progressive') kind of action.
2) Completed (or 'Accomplished) kind of action, with continuing results.
3)Simple occurrence, (or 'Summary occurrence') without reference to the question of progress. (This is sometimes referred to as 'Punctiliar' kind of action , but it is a misnomer to thus imply that, in every instance, the action only happened at one point of time. This can be true, but it is often dependent on other factors such as the meaning of the verb, other words in the context, etc.).

Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

 

[dcontroversal]

We don't compare ourselves to others, but we do and are called to look upon others to see if they are walking properly in the faith or not. And if they are not we are charged to call them out and help them to change from walking the impure lifestyle. If they refuse after one on one, 2-3 on one, bringing them in front of the whole congregation, then Paul goes further within the meat of the word showing that if those steps fail then they are to be cast out of the church.
Apostle Paul constantly gives warnings of sin to believers because they do have impact on a believers life, because one can state belief in the Lord but if they live in a disobedient lifestyle of a sin nature then the Lord says clearly the disobedient will be appointed a place in the lake of fire with the unbelievers.
Then you bring up the lose salvation issue which will always be a hot topic, but those who preach and teach some can lose salvation are not teaching falsely as some say. For there is many scriptures that support this from Judas all the way to the epistle of Jude who's whole book is about salvation. Then in Hebrews mentions those who draw back to perdition, meaning they fell back to a sinful lifestyle leading to the second death.

CC is not a church, you are not the Pastor of everybody in here and you have to have the truth before you can rightfully judge anything...of the which you do not!

You cannot even admit truth when it is right in front of your face......like arguing about verb tenses above and saying that verb tenses do not show a present continuing result from a past completed action.....I prove you wrong and you deny, argue and continue to stand on heresy and a rejection of the truth!

 

[kennethcadwell]

The following still continues to show your inability to accept any given truth that CONTRADICTS your heretical stance....for once in your life ACCEPT the truth that PROVES YOU ARE IN ERROR DUDE!

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell And I would suggest you get away from your man made teaching system you have been lead in and let the Holy Spirit guide in knowledge instead.
For your reasoning makes no sense, a present continuing from a past completed action. You can not have both as it is either present and continuing as pisteuo means, but it can not also mean a past completed action to. For the full definition which I gave says that it leads to obtaining something, and in this case it is salvation through Christ.



Verb Tenses

Time & "Kind of Action" in Greek Verbs:
In English, and in most other languages, the tense of the verb mainly refers to the 'time' of the action of the verb (present, past, or future time). In Greek, however, although time does bear upon the meaning of tense, the primary consideration of the tense of the verb is not time, but rather the 'kind of action' that the verb portrays. The most important element in Greek tense is kind of action; time is regarded as a secondary element. For this reason, many grammarians have adopted the German word 'aktionsart' (kind of action) to be able to more easily refer to this phenomenon of Greek verbs.
The kind of action (aktionsart) of a Greek verb will generally fall into one of three categories:
1) Continuous (or 'Progressive') kind of action.
2) Completed (or 'Accomplished) kind of action, with continuing results.
3)Simple occurrence, (or 'Summary occurrence') without reference to the question of progress. (This is sometimes referred to as 'Punctiliar' kind of action , but it is a misnomer to thus imply that, in every instance, the action only happened at one point of time. This can be true, but it is often dependent on other factors such as the meaning of the verb, other words in the context, etc.).

Perfect Tense
The basic thought of the perfect tense is that the progress of an action has been completed and the results of the action are continuing on, in full effect. In other words, the progress of the action has reached its culmination and the finished results are now in existence. Unlike the English perfect, which indicates a completed past action, the Greek perfect tense indicates the continuation and present state of a completed past action.

You can repeat that all you want Dcon, and just because you do does not mean I have an inability to learn as I know what the definition of pisteuo says. You always want to post stuff from man made sources yet quickly reject what others have shown you when it comes to clear cut scriptures and the definitions themselves.
Just because you post the above does not change the definition of pisteuo;


The full definition of pisteuo from the Strong's Concordance and the Thayer's Greek Lexicon

pisteuó​

Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with
1. intransitive, to think to be true; to be persuaded of; to credit, place confidence in;
a. universally: the thing believed being evident from the preceding context,Matthew 24:23,(26); Mark 13:21; 1 Corinthians 11:18; with an accusative of the thing, Acts 13:41 (L T Tr WH ὁ for Rec. ᾧ), to credit, have confidence, followed by ὅτι, Acts 9:26; τίνι, to believe one's words,Mark 16:13; 1 John 4:1; τίνι ὅτι, John 4:21; τῷ ψεύδει, 2 Thessalonians 2:11; περί τίνος, ὅτι, John 9:18.
b. specifically, in a moral and religious reference, πιστεύειν is used in the N. T. of "the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of his soul"; thus it stands α. absolutely to trust in Jesus or in God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: