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The Law Debacle Resolved
- Thread starter JaumeJ
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I've found that most debates like this are caused by an extreme case of tunnel vision, brought on by the inability (unwillingness?) to find the common ground between seemingly conflicting verses, and a resultant over-focusing on one verse at the expense of others.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Nah, Thats not true
We are talking about eternity here, Not some doctrine which is not essential. Paul said there is one gospel. not two or three..
If we even differ by one word. we teach different gospels. and one of us is headed to hell.
This is not a minor issue, Peoples eternity is at stake
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KennethC
Guest
You mean like what we just went through a little bit ago of using scripture to try and make Lord Jesus teachings and commands only for Jews when scripture says no such thing ???
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zzz98
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
There are lots of verses that say God will never let go of us. There are also lots of verses that say having tasted of His Glory we can walk away from Him. The Osas debate (as do many others) arises out of focusing on only one of these two sets of verses, and ignoring (or manipulating) the other set (to fit a pre-conceived conclusion based on one set).
I really don't see how disagreement on OSAS imperils anyone's salvation. The only subject I see that carries such peril is Cessationism, because it encompasses blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. (And no that is not an invitation to open that debate).
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KennethC
Guest
*Punishes eternally-gratefull for doing more bad deeds than good ones*
Hotfoots it out of room with e-g chasing me with fly swatter*
If you put more money into the bank than you take out, you're ok aren't you?
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KennethC
Guest
Well that would depend because even though some will not admit it, there are different versions of OSAS floating about.
The original one started by John Calvin stated that falling away from the faith is impossible, yet the bible has multiple scriptures that says it does and will happen. This is just one of many area's that Calvin taught badly on as he took and adopted his doctrine from the eternal security of Augustine that also has major issues with.
Doctrine is very important which is why we are told by Jesus we are to not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Because it takes the whole word and the Holy Spirit's guidance to understand the truth in the scriptures.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
*Punishes eternally-gratefull for doing more bad deeds than good ones*
Hotfoots it out of room with e-g chasing me with fly swatter*
Fly Swatter, I have the wet noodle!! You better run!!
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Well I hear that alot. But there are so many verses which speak of our eternity in Christ. It is more than just a few. and scripture cannot contradict itself can it?
It comes down to self. some think they are worthy of God because they worked so hard to stay on track and not walk away.
Whether it be not doing enough works. Or walking away Any gospel which puts the emphasis on I did or I did not do. and not on CHRIST did. is a gospel of self. or works.
They twist it so many different ways, but it is still the same.
Like I said earlier, I never heard of Of OSAS until a few years ago. But OSAS, Eternal security, Eternal life, live forever, never hunger thirst, etc etc is all the same.
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zzz98
Guest
i don't do good deeds to feel more worthy or an assurance. Jesus Christ has completely changed my life and, for me, the least I can do is order my life after good and not follow bad. By following Jesus Christ and studying the scriptures my life has improved. Am I perfect? No. Do I give up? No. The life I lead now through Jesus Christ is a blessing, and sometimes suffering, maybe for long periods. I give this all to the Lord and listen for His guidance. Am I trying to earn brownie points? No. All I want is to show I ran my race through him and kept myself available for His service when called. Imo this is a much better life than the selfish, indulgent lifestyle I was leading.
This has been weighing on my heart and I needed to say this
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
If your jewish, or muslim, or any other religion. You may be ok. (since this is what they all teach)
Even then, you may be in trouble You never know what life can through out you You can save for a lifetime and in one day all that money can be gone.
would it not be better to trust in God to take care off all your needs. and not your self?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Now. take all this, And know that Jesus loves you as a child no matter what, And he will never let you go.. Ad you have the good news of Jesus Christ,
But take this, and claim this can all be lost. And you have not good news, But bad news, and a doctrine of fear.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Eternal security was not started by John calvin.
Your strawman arguments do not do you justice. Stop blaming people. and start trusting God!
Yes there are many that speak of eternal security. But there are an equal number that say we can turn away. You can't take one set and say it has standing over the other set, no matter which side you are on. And no scripture cannot contradict itself. That's why we have to carefully seek out the answer that makes BOTH sides true, instead of just choosing one at the expense of the other. And no it's not easy to do sometimes. But without an open mind, it's impossible.
Very true. A gospel of self and works is a false one. But so is one that eliminates contrary verses just because you can't make them all fit.
Yes there is twisting on both sides, but again that's because people focus on either/or as opposed to finding the middle ground. It's like one side saying the pendulum only swings left, the other side saying it only swings right, when in truth the pendulum settles in the middle.
Finding the middle ground can be very tough. People take the easy route and pick one or the other because they are unable or unwilling to wrap their brains around both sides.
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