THE LAW OF MOSES VS THE LAW OF CHRIST

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#41
Since all born-again believers are NOT under the law (Ro, 6:14), but under grace, yet both the OT law and the NT law (Christ's) come from one God, how do we keep the law of Christ?
The simple answer is that there are OT ordinances and NT ordinances. Some overlap can exist, but there are differences.

We also have to consider whether specific aspects of OT law were erased from authority or fulfilled by equivalency. E.g. we can argue that the sacrificial laws were never removed, just fulfilled by one perfect sacrifice in Christ, etc.

We see this concept of equal payment in the OT. An eye for an eye demonstrates the concept of equal value, but we see that substitutions can be made to fulfil an equal trade. E.g. a slaves lost eye is repaid by freedom rather than the master's eye, etc.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,384
1,003
113
#42
I quite agree but then heres the trouble with that. There are many that consider there actions or deeds as normal behavior. Or excuse it as a illness or sickness.
The gay community argue this point. Society argues that drunkeness is a disease.
God says it is sin. Just as a few examples.
There are many that consider if it is not against mans law to practice such things then it is not sin.
It opens up to a endless debate which in its self is never resolved.
The law is cut and dry on these matters....a man shall not lay with another man as with a women leaves no wiggle room for example. It leaves the person no recourse for there actions.

In genesis we see our first parents give excuses for there actions but it did not un do that which was done.
Reguardless of the reason the law is broken plain and simple.
The law cannot meet the demands of identifying sinful behavior. Sin is anything, thought, deed, that is not derived from faith.

Romans 14:23
But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Do you understand the following verse and the logical implication of the verse?

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#43
The law cannot meet the demands of identifying sinful behavior. Sin is anything, thought, deed, that is not derived from faith.

Romans 14:23
But the one who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Do you understand the following verse and the logical implication of the verse?

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.
Bible knowledge is not common knowledge. Because of GOD we understand what scripture is saying. We know the truth.
So many christians are out of touch with todays society. Many unregenerate people never heard or read GODs word.
They beleive in the many wives tales and lies passed on from family and friends if they have any belief at all.
I try to keep it simple so please when you ask if i understand it seems that you are talking down to me.
I have reached many in just passive conversation as i take the time to listen to what they have heard and beleive.
Many did not know the law ......and grace for that matter. They viewed God as the turn or burn GOD. The law for jews only.
Forget about the second coming....many never heard and thought it was a religious thing. A certain denominational belief.
The more intricate one gets the more frustrating it becomes. Im happy just planting a seed or tilling the ground.
Knowing that God will do the rest of what needs to be done.
The law and grace has always been my approach.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#44
You left out the rest of the passage: "The young man said to Him, 'All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?' Jesus said to him, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.' " vv. 20,21

Keeping the commandments is secondary; following Christ (and His Holy Spirit) is primary.

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else.

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do. So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him.

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#45
You said << This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).>>
What are the commandments of God? Could you name a few? [/QUOTE]


Let's allow Paul to name a few in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. (See exodus 20: 1-17)
 

chess-player

Active member
Jul 14, 2022
205
102
28
#46
What are the commandments of God? Could you name a few?

Let's allow Paul to name a few in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. (See exodus 20: 1-17)[/QUOTE]

Yes, thank you. You are correct. I came up with a couple too recognizing that the commandments of God are the commandments of Christ, that is, both are one and the same.

Here are some "bear one another burdens, and therefore fulfill the law of Christ." (Gal. 6:2); "Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law." (Rom. 13:8); John 13:34 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

The question I have is whether we are fulfilling these commandments. 😬
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,384
1,003
113
#47
What are the commandments of God? Could you name a few?

Let's allow Paul to name a few in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. And you thought love was kissing and hugging and rolling around in bed. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. (See exodus 20: 1-17)[/QUOTE]The translation your using is problematic.

therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

or

therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

One implies obeying the law is love and the other states that love is what the law ultimately requires.

Perfect love eliminates the need for commandments, or any law.

Obviously then, love towards others renders the law obsolete.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
113
Australia
#48
God, Jesus, came to Israel and wrote the law with his own finger in stone....
God didn't trust anyone to write it.
The law of God is love.
But to help us love God, and our neighbors, He gave 10 commandments.

Jesus did not change them or remove them. He showed us how to keep them and if we Love God we will keep them too.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn 5:2 KJV By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 

chess-player

Active member
Jul 14, 2022
205
102
28
#49
One implies obeying the law is love and the other states that love is what the law ultimately requires.

Perfect love eliminates the need for commandments or any law.

Obviously then, love towards others renders the law obsolete.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree with you more. 😁
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,629
5,898
113
#50
you seem to have an issue as to wanting to control what everyone has to say , and how many words they use to say it lol

you might want to consider how a discussion works if you post in a discussion forum

short and to the point
Actually no. I don't control anybody, nor do I desire to do so, but I do consider it disrespectful on your part to throw out a link as an answer without commenting first. [/QUOTE]

lol I have never shared a link with anyone here so you may want to reconsider what your saying

and yes it seems as if you want to control how many words other people use , in a discussion you have to let the person speak s they speak is my only point you have your part in a conversation and the. He other person has thier part

but as to a link I have no nodes what your even talking about
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,629
5,898
113
#51
God, Jesus, came to Israel and wrote the law with his own finger in stone....
God didn't trust anyone to write it.
The law of God is love.
But to help us love God, and our neighbors, He gave 10 commandments.

Jesus did not change them or remove them. He showed us how to keep them and if we Love God we will keep them too.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn 5:2 KJV By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
“Jesus did not change them or remove them.”

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

….For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who do you tell “ don’t kill “ ? Who do you tell “ don’t lie “ ? Who do you tell “ dontt steal ?”

you tell killers not to kill , liars not to lie and thieves don’t steal “ You tell rebellious people what not to do or else
The difference In the law is for condemned sinners

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when God gave the Ten Commandments he gave it to people who were corrupt t heart and driven to commit sin constantly so he says “ don’t sin this is sin don’t do it or you will die “

don’t lie don’t steal don’t kill these are commandments you give inside a prison full of criminals the law was given for this purpose to show sinners thier sin it cannot by design save a soul or justify flesh it’s meant to define and the. Impute sin

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This cannot help a single person it can only make them guilty before God and bring them to acknolwedge thier sins

the law was never made to do what the gospel does the gospel is the opposite rather than given To impute and make us aware of our sins like the law , the gospel is about repentance and remission of sins and it began not in e desert but in Jerusalem

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭

the law is about making sinners guilty and aware of sin the gospel is thy answer for that place we end up in forgiving our sins calling us to repentance and teaching us righteousness

but you aren’t alone israel couldn’t see the end of it’s law either

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬

you can’t see God by looking at Moses law you have to look at Jesus and his word because Moses was speaking to sinners without repentance and no hilt spirit no new birth no atonement

“They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law of Moses is not Christian law it’s what led the world to the need for Jesus and the gospel once you come to Jesus the purpose of Moses law has been fulfilled

“Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:21-

Coming to Christ and believing the gospel removes a person from under the framework of Moses law of sin and death
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,103
30,231
113
#52
but as to a link I have no nodes what your even talking about
JJ has a link in his auto siggy that was mistaken to be part of an answer to a post...

So many botched posts in this thread with people messing up the quote tags :oops::censored::cry:
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,629
5,898
113
#53
JJ has a link in his auto siggy that was mistaken to be part of an answer to a post...

So many botched posts in this thread with people messing up the quote tags :oops::censored::cry:
yeah I knew something got out of whack but it’s really no big deal I don’t think anyways happens a lot in this forum dosagreements are ok in my view as long as we don’t get carnal over it
 

chess-player

Active member
Jul 14, 2022
205
102
28
#56
Actually no. I don't control anybody, nor do I desire to do so, but I do consider it disrespectful on your part to throw out a link as an answer without commenting first.
lol I have never shared a link with anyone here so you may want to reconsider what your saying

and yes it seems as if you want to control how many words other people use , in a discussion you have to let the person speak s they speak is my only point you have your part in a conversation and the. He other person has thier pa
but as to a link I have no nodes what your even talking about[/QUOTE]

Nope. To suggest something does not mean controlling something. No one wants to read a book as a response to a post. When I see one, I just skip it; it is just common sense. My pastor used to say that preaching should not take more than 40' because in general one's span of attention is about 35-40 minutes. 😁
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,463
6,721
113
#57
One implies obeying the law is love and the other states that love is what the law ultimately requires.

Perfect love eliminates the need for commandments or any law.

Obviously then, love towards others renders the law obsolete.
I couldn't agree with you more. 😁[/QUOTE]
You forget that law is not written on our hearts.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#58
Perfect love eliminates the need for commandments or any law.
You will not find this mistaken idea in the New Testament. Perfect love casts out fear according to Scripture, but it does NOT eliminate any commandments nor the Law of Christ.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,463
6,721
113
#59
I couldn't agree with you more. 😁
You forget that law is not written on our hearts.[/QUOTE]
How did everythig get all mixed up here. I have the post of another within the typing area of my post?

While I am here, my part should read NOW in place of not. The law is NOW written on our hearts............it still exists yet we are always under grace. Praise God; He is worthy not we, amen.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,384
1,003
113
#60
You will not find this mistaken idea in the New Testament. Perfect love casts out fear according to Scripture, but it does NOT eliminate any commandments nor the Law of Christ.
God has poured His love into our hearts.

Romans 5:5
Hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Love is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, we receive that gift of love, it is not from us.

Let me assure you that we do not generate our own love by not coveting an oxen.

God is love, Christ is love, we must love as Christ loved us.