The man of sin (2 Tess 2:1-4)

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crossnote said:
What's wrong with you? The Corinthian Church was a mess, yet Paul still treated them as dear children.Maybe it's teachings like yours that is the mark of the beast leading people into self works/self worship.
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I don't think maybe. I think it is. To a born again believer, His post is garbage.

But to the carnal mind, it is enticing. doing my own good and worshiping the things I do. This why the deception is going to be so great. Religion caters to our own human good.

And we sure are seeing a lot of religion in Christianity in this day.
 
crossnote said:
What's wrong with you? The Corinthian Church was a mess, yet Paul still treated them as dear children.Maybe it's teachings like yours that is the mark of the beast leading people into self works/self worship.
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1 cor 1: 2 [SUP]2 [/SUP]To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— [SUP]6 [/SUP]even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— [SUP]7 [/SUP]so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]8 [/SUP]who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is what Paul called those so called unrighteous sinners skinski wants to condemn. He also said this about them. even though he declared they were still babes who needed milk, even though they should be able to eat meat be this time.
 
crossnote said:
Perhaps you are confusing the spirit of antichristian lies with the actual person. The lies don't end up in the Lake of fire but the beast does.

Revelation 20:10 (KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
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The spirit of the antichrit are in people's who claim to be the Christ, like the Bible also tells us, but the man of lawlessness was the spirit which exalt him self above all godliness, or the horn which grow up to heaven.

When our Lord returns, this preset world, and it's culture is not anymore here.

The beast is empire which dominate also today
 
Gr8grace said:
I agree. Most believers have committed adultery with their husband(Christ). They aren't filled with the Spirit and are walking in the flesh,thinking they might not have eternal life or can lose eternal and have turned their back on Christ, to find some other way.

They deny the words of God, you shall never perish, you have eternal life,you WILL be saved,kept by the power of God and many other words of God.

They quench the Spirit that sealed them. Eyes full of adultery.......SELF salvation.
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Self gratification is likely closer to the truth

Even as it speaks of men heaping up a great number of teachers according to their lusts 2 Ti 4:3

Which speaks in our own teachers (the apostles) speak to the contrary of that and those sorts of adulteries

James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss,
 that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses,
know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?
whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Shows, A friend of the world is the enemy of God in that adultery.
According to their lusts in the same.

The love of God is not in these people

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world,
the love of the Father is not in him.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Their whorish hearts have been shown before to be for the same abominations
as their eyes and hearts were for their covetousness (which is idolatry Col 3:5)

Eyes full of adultery was mentioned in the above in 2Peter 2:14

Speaks to the love (in a heart that is exercised in) covetous practices (which is idolatry Col 3:5)
according to the love (in the heart) for the world (over the Father)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world,.... even as it pertains to
... the lust of the eyes

Which is...not of the Father, but is of the world.

A friend of the world in that way is an enemy of God

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses,
know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?
whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Just further clarifies there.

Posted moreso for others information if it could be helpful to them


 
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eternally-gratefull said:
I guess the apostle John is a cursed child. for he said anyone (including himself) who states he is without sin is decieved, and there is no truth in them.

Thanks But I will stick with john on this one, there is a huge difference between being a mature believer, and living in sin, yet even a mature believer is not perfect.

I guess reading scripture is a lost art. seems people do not wish to study it any more. just make up stuff from just a few verses here and their, and call themselves teachers of God.
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Yes, for all have sinned and anyone who says he or she has not ever sinned is a liar. But when we are made a new man in Christ we are told to stop sinning, and we are even given the power to do so by the Spirit of God and Christ who now works in us.


Notice the use of the past tense here concerning sin...

1 Corinthians 6:9-11[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

So yes, such were some of us, be we have been washed, and we are told to keep our garments clean by ceasing from sin. If you are unable to cease from sin then something is wrong!

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
 
MikkoAinasoja said:
The spirit of the antichrit are in people's who claim to be the Christ, like the Bible also tells us, but the man of lawlessness was the spirit which exalt him self above all godliness, or the horn which grow up to heaven.

When our Lord returns, this preset world, and it's culture is not anymore here.

The beast is empire which dominate also today
Click to expand...
You need to explain your theory in the light of Rev. 20 :10

Revelation 20:10 (KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
Mercy the goonie birds are coming out of the woodwork. They do not comprehend the gospel and yet they profess to comprehend the end times along with the consummation of the world.

Their bark is far worse than their bite but they do make a racket.

Pointless to argue with them as they are beyond reproof.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
Yes, for all have sinned and anyone who says he or she has not ever sinned is a liar. But when we are made a new man in Christ we are told to stop sinning, and we are even given the power to do so by the Spirit of God and Christ who now works in us.
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No, Because John spoke of present tense. and even of himself.

He literally said if anyone claims they are not sinning, the truth is not in them. (the verb is poresent active.)

sometimes going into the greek would help our interpretations and not let us make mistakes.


Notice the use of the past tense here concerning sin...

1 Corinthians 6:9-11[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

So yes, such were some of us, be we have been washed, and we are told to keep our garments clean by ceasing from sin. If you are unable to cease from sin then something is wrong!
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Now your adding to the word of God.

It says such were some of you, but you were washed, justified, and sanctified in the name of jesus,

It did not say they stopped their sin, thats a LIE.

2 Peter 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
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Again you need to study word usage, peter is talking about ongoing habitual sin (living like the world.) John says that one who is born of God can not sin. So peter is not talking to children of God in his passage, he is speaking to people who claim to be saved, but are still living in sin.

again, does anyone study anymore?
 
DesiredHaven said:
Self gratification is likely closer to the truth

Even as it speaks of men heaping up a great number of teachers according to their lusts 2 Ti 4:3

Which speaks in our own teachers (the apostles) speak to the contrary of that and those sorts of adulteries

James 4:3
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss,
 that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses,
know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?
whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Shows, A friend of the world is the enemy of God in that adultery.
According to their lusts in the same.

The love of God is not in these people

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world,
the love of the Father is not in him.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Their whorish hearts have been shown before to be for the same abominations
as their eyes and hearts were for their covetousness (which is idolatry Col 3:5)

Eyes full of adultery was mentioned in the above in 2Peter 2:14

Speaks to the love (in a heart that is exercised in) covetous practices (which is idolatry Col 3:5)
according to the love (in the heart) for the world (over the Father)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world,.... even as it pertains to
... the lust of the eyes

Which is...not of the Father, but is of the world.

A friend of the world in that way is an enemy of God

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses,
know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?
whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Just further clarifies there.

Posted moreso for others information if it could be helpful to them
Click to expand...

Try to carry out a thought with me ok? I am A little slow.

The world has 2 systems that it uses to try to distract men from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Cosmic system #1~~living for self,lust of the flesh,sinning.

Cosmic system #2~~Religion. Doing good,being nice and sweet,going to church,potlucks,mission trips....being good enough. False security.

These are the 2 systems that the world provides for man, to distract them from Christ. SO living in this world, can look good to us from the outside. The world system is not all wicked bad.

Now can you fit cosmic system #2 into any of the verses above? Or is it all just the wicked bad stuff?
 
notuptome said:
Mercy the goonie birds are coming out of the woodwork. They do not comprehend the gospel and yet they profess to comprehend the end times along with the consummation of the world.

Their bark is far worse than their bite but they do make a racket.

Pointless to argue with them as they are beyond reproof.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Well, it's either argue with them or argue with my brothers in Christ. I'd rather argue with the former, besides there are other young and inquisitive readers/guests that would get sick off their Kool-Aid.
 
Gr8grace said:
Try to carry out a thought with me ok? I am A little slow.

The world has 2 systems that it uses to try to distract men from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Cosmic system #1~~living for self,lust of the flesh,sinning.

Cosmic system #2~~Religion. Doing good,being nice and sweet,going to church,potlucks,mission trips....being good enough. False security.

These are the 2 systems that the world provides for man, to distract them from Christ. SO living in this world, can look good to us from the outside. The world system is not all wicked bad.

Now can you fit cosmic system #2 into any of the verses above? Or is it all just the wicked bad stuff?
Click to expand...

Which verses are problematic for you? I am not understanding
 
eternally-gratefull said:
No, Because John spoke of present tense. and even of himself.

He literally said if anyone claims they are not sinning, the truth is not in them.
Click to expand...

So now you claim John was not cleansed of all his sins, and was also an active sinner? Wow!

Actually here is the verse you misrepresent...

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Nope, don't see where John said he was actively sinning. Think I'll stick with the words of God, over your twisting of scriptures. :)
 
DesiredHaven said:
Which verses are problematic for you? I am not understanding
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None of them. Those verses are not just about sinning overtly. The world has a system of good(evil) also.

We can be operating in the world and be doing Good(Evil.)

self righteousness and doing good deeds in the flesh(evil)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.
"Lust of the flesh"~~I will do good on my own,I am good enough.
"lust of the eyes"~~I see someone who has a sense of security and is a good person. I try to imitate that person.
"Pride of life"~~I can be good enough and save myself.
"but is of the world"~~religion, being good on my own.

Not all these verses are about overtly sinning. They are also about religion and being good(evil)

In fact the majority of the "warning" verses are not about overt sinning, they are about our own good works, that are evil in the eyes of the Lord.
 
Gr8grace said:
None of them. Those verses are not just about sinning overtly. The world has a system of good(evil) also.

We can be operating in the world and be doing Good(Evil.)

self righteousness and doing good deeds in the flesh(evil)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world,
the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,
is not of the Father, but is of the world.
"Lust of the flesh"~~I will do good on my own,I am good enough.
"lust of the eyes"~~I see someone who has a sense of security and is a good person. I try to imitate that person.
"Pride of life"~~I can be good enough and save myself.
"but is of the world"~~religion, being good on my own.

Not all these verses are about overtly sinning. They are also about religion and being good(evil)

In fact the majority of the "warning" verses are not about overt sinning, they are about our own good works, that are evil in the eyes of the Lord.
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Where did I say anything about those verses being of sinning specifically? Says not to obey sin in the lust thereof the first I mentioned was teachers according to their lusts, they were praying amis (even) to consume upon their lusts, you corrected the adulterer verse posted by another by nothing in scripture, I posted rather more scripture (which agrees) with the lusts of the world, and the love of the world that fall under the same adulterers and adulteries.

I agree with the scripture posted and the follow up scripture I posted to the same which agree together, and thats what I do. You might not agree with either that verse you posted at (for whatever reason) to set it at nought, but I was posting simply to show there is an agreement in scripture to that same verse, and not all the verses were posted that agree just enough to make the agreement evident.

What you are saying, I dont know, but with what scripture is saying, I agree, I dont understand this rounds with me on it, if anything you seem to disagree with scripture posted either before or after.
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
So now you claim John was not cleansed of all his sins, and was also an active sinner? Wow!

Actually here is the verse you misrepresent...

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Nope, don't see where John said he was actively sinning. Think I'll stick with the words of God, over your twisting of scriptures. :)
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why are you going to verse 10? Does vs 8 convict you so much you can not look at it?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Have is the word echomen, verb present active 1st person singular.

John said if he came to you, and said he was sinless. He would be a liar.

Do you want to make John a liar? Again, I chose to trust John. Not some modern day pharisee
 
InSpiritInTruth said:
So now you claim John was not cleansed of all his sins, and was also an active sinner? Wow!

Actually here is the verse you misrepresent...

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Nope, don't see where John said he was actively sinning. Think I'll stick with the words of God, over your twisting of scriptures. :)
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I missed this one, yes here are the various ways sin (in past, and present) is spoken of by the apostles


2343224


2343227
 
Gr8grace said:
Right. but wickedness...........................is GOOD(Human good) also.

Do you understand this?
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Arent we talking about the good in us by Jesus Christ?

Phm 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

The fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness as the fruit of the Spirit is manifest in goodness, righteousness and truth even
 
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