The message of the cross
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[FONT="]Originally Posted by becausehedied [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]I am confused as to how you make the jump between salvation and loving God and brother. I for one never said anything about that.
Salvation comes by faith and having faith we obey the commandments of Jesus Christ (Love God, love thy neighbor) That is what James 2:14 (KJV) is speaking of.
Also, as for the rejection of the OT comment, I fully believe in the OT and use it often, Romans 15:4; 1 Corinthians 10:6, 11; tell us what the OT is for (I would urge you to look these Scriptures up).
Do not urge me anything. ive seen them already.
However, do you think that God loved all of those folks that He destroyed in the flood. Those folks had to do something or they were going to die. Noah and his family got on the ark, no one else did, there was something that they had to do.
Jacob I love, Esau I hated Romans 9:11-13 (KJV)
How much sense does it make to say that Christ came died and there is nothing for anyone to do. That means in essence that a person can do whatever he/she wants.
That is not what i said at all. Love is the works Paul was speaking of. (love the brethren) Hebrews 13:1 (KJV)
Thus, when someone says I love God so that means I can do whatever I want Christ has already done everything. Folks look at the words of Christ in Matthew 7:13, 14.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13, 14
The broad way to destruction is them that loved not the brethren and some of them were foolish in thinking they were saved but were spiritually dead and were not invited to the supper of the Lamb, look at the parable of the 10 virgins.
Also notice Matthew 7:21-23
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Yea they did all the wonders in His name but did NOT love the brethren.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]All the underlined to this point was your response to what I stated.
This here begins my explanation:
[/FONT][FONT="]Sorry I am not familiar with how to use the quote thing yet, but the emphasis in red is yours from a previous post, the same which is underlined above. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]I am confused as to how you make the jump between salvation and loving God and brother. I for one never said anything about that.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Salvation comes by faith and having faith we obey the commandments of Jesus Christ (Love God, love thy neighbor) That is what James 2:14 (KJV) is speaking of.
[/FONT][FONT="]If this is speaking on nothing more than brotherly love as you say, then how does Abraham and Rahab fit in to the picture. Seeing that it was because of Abraham obeying God in sacrificing his son, and Rahab a Gentile choosing to protect two of children of Israel. The context does not end at verse 16. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]This is my statement, "However, do you think that God loved all of those folks that He destroyed in the flood. Those folks had to do something or they were going to die. Noah and his family got on the ark, no one else did, there was something that they had to do."[/FONT][FONT="]
Jacob I love, Esau I hated Romans 9:11-13 (KJV)
How does this verse apply to what was said about Noah? Let me clarify, God loved each and every Soul that perished in the flood, but he still rendered judgment on them. My point was the folks that where lost in the flood because they did not put forth the effort (work) to get on the ark, and God did not save them. In fact Noah had to do something, Noah had to build the ark to the exact specifications of God.
Have you ever read Hebrews 11, I am sure you have. The faith that comes by hearing (Romans 10:17) is mention around 24 times. You will notice that it will say by faith so and so did something. Thus, work is involved.
My statement, "How much sense does it make to say that Christ came died and there is nothing for anyone to do. That means in essence that a person can do whatever he/she wants."
That is not what i said at all. Love is the works Paul was speaking of. (love the brethren) Hebrews 13:1 (KJV)
As for this point I may have spoke presumptuously, I will go back and look at it again.
Paul does speak of brotherly love in Hebrews 13:1.
My statement, "Thus, when someone says I love God so that means I can do whatever I want Christ has already done everything. Folks look at the words of Christ in Matthew 7:13, 14.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13, 14"
The broad way to destruction is them that loved not the brethren and some of them were foolish in thinking they were saved but were spiritually dead and were not invited to the supper of the Lamb, look at the parable of the 10 virgins.
In this context Christ is giving what is sometimes referred to as the Sermon on the Mount. Those to whom he was addressing primarily were his disciples (ref. Matt. 5:1, 2). How do you come to the conclusion that Christ is speaking about brotherly love? Christ is going through a discourse and the subject changes several times. In Matt 7:1-5 is speaking about a hypocritical judgment. Matthew 7:6, do not give holy things to those who do not care for them. Matthew 7:7-11, deals with prayer and persistence in prayer. Matthew 7:12, Do to others as you want done to you. Matthew 7:13, 14, Two ways of life "Narrow way which is God's way" broad way which is not God's way." Matthew 7:15-20, false prophets and how to identify them. I will cover the remaining verse in the next section.
As for the Ten virgins the focus of the parable is being prepared. The wise virgins where prepared and brought enough oil for the wait. The foolish where not prepared and did not being enough oil for the wait.
Also notice Matthew 7:21-23
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Yea they did all the wonders in His name but did NOT love the brethren.
Once again you appeal to the love of the brethren. How do you come to that conclusion. Christ says only those who do the will of the father will be accepted. He then states that many will do many wonderful things and notice Christ does not deny that they did, but what they where doing was not in accordance to the will of the Father.
He clarifies this section of Scripture, by what He says next.
Mat 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
Mat 7:25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26 But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
Mat 7:27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Mat 7:28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching,
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Christ says that those who hear and do His will are wise. This is similar to what James says:
Jas 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
Jas 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
Jas 1:24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am confused as to how you make the jump between salvation and loving God and brother. I for one never said anything about that.
Salvation comes by faith and having faith we obey the commandments of Jesus Christ (Love God, love thy neighbor) That is what James 2:14 (KJV) is speaking of.
Also, as for the rejection of the OT comment, I fully believe in the OT and use it often, Romans 15:4; 1 Corinthians 10:6, 11; tell us what the OT is for (I would urge you to look these Scriptures up).
Do not urge me anything. ive seen them already.
However, do you think that God loved all of those folks that He destroyed in the flood. Those folks had to do something or they were going to die. Noah and his family got on the ark, no one else did, there was something that they had to do.
Jacob I love, Esau I hated Romans 9:11-13 (KJV)
How much sense does it make to say that Christ came died and there is nothing for anyone to do. That means in essence that a person can do whatever he/she wants.
That is not what i said at all. Love is the works Paul was speaking of. (love the brethren) Hebrews 13:1 (KJV)
Thus, when someone says I love God so that means I can do whatever I want Christ has already done everything. Folks look at the words of Christ in Matthew 7:13, 14.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13, 14
The broad way to destruction is them that loved not the brethren and some of them were foolish in thinking they were saved but were spiritually dead and were not invited to the supper of the Lamb, look at the parable of the 10 virgins.
Also notice Matthew 7:21-23
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Yea they did all the wonders in His name but did NOT love the brethren.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]All the underlined to this point was your response to what I stated.
This here begins my explanation:
[/FONT][FONT="]Sorry I am not familiar with how to use the quote thing yet, but the emphasis in red is yours from a previous post, the same which is underlined above. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]I am confused as to how you make the jump between salvation and loving God and brother. I for one never said anything about that.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]Salvation comes by faith and having faith we obey the commandments of Jesus Christ (Love God, love thy neighbor) That is what James 2:14 (KJV) is speaking of.
[/FONT][FONT="]If this is speaking on nothing more than brotherly love as you say, then how does Abraham and Rahab fit in to the picture. Seeing that it was because of Abraham obeying God in sacrificing his son, and Rahab a Gentile choosing to protect two of children of Israel. The context does not end at verse 16. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. [/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]This is my statement, "However, do you think that God loved all of those folks that He destroyed in the flood. Those folks had to do something or they were going to die. Noah and his family got on the ark, no one else did, there was something that they had to do."[/FONT][FONT="]
Jacob I love, Esau I hated Romans 9:11-13 (KJV)
How does this verse apply to what was said about Noah? Let me clarify, God loved each and every Soul that perished in the flood, but he still rendered judgment on them. My point was the folks that where lost in the flood because they did not put forth the effort (work) to get on the ark, and God did not save them. In fact Noah had to do something, Noah had to build the ark to the exact specifications of God.
Have you ever read Hebrews 11, I am sure you have. The faith that comes by hearing (Romans 10:17) is mention around 24 times. You will notice that it will say by faith so and so did something. Thus, work is involved.
My statement, "How much sense does it make to say that Christ came died and there is nothing for anyone to do. That means in essence that a person can do whatever he/she wants."
That is not what i said at all. Love is the works Paul was speaking of. (love the brethren) Hebrews 13:1 (KJV)
As for this point I may have spoke presumptuously, I will go back and look at it again.
Paul does speak of brotherly love in Hebrews 13:1.
My statement, "Thus, when someone says I love God so that means I can do whatever I want Christ has already done everything. Folks look at the words of Christ in Matthew 7:13, 14.
"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13, 14"
The broad way to destruction is them that loved not the brethren and some of them were foolish in thinking they were saved but were spiritually dead and were not invited to the supper of the Lamb, look at the parable of the 10 virgins.
In this context Christ is giving what is sometimes referred to as the Sermon on the Mount. Those to whom he was addressing primarily were his disciples (ref. Matt. 5:1, 2). How do you come to the conclusion that Christ is speaking about brotherly love? Christ is going through a discourse and the subject changes several times. In Matt 7:1-5 is speaking about a hypocritical judgment. Matthew 7:6, do not give holy things to those who do not care for them. Matthew 7:7-11, deals with prayer and persistence in prayer. Matthew 7:12, Do to others as you want done to you. Matthew 7:13, 14, Two ways of life "Narrow way which is God's way" broad way which is not God's way." Matthew 7:15-20, false prophets and how to identify them. I will cover the remaining verse in the next section.
As for the Ten virgins the focus of the parable is being prepared. The wise virgins where prepared and brought enough oil for the wait. The foolish where not prepared and did not being enough oil for the wait.
Also notice Matthew 7:21-23
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Yea they did all the wonders in His name but did NOT love the brethren.
Once again you appeal to the love of the brethren. How do you come to that conclusion. Christ says only those who do the will of the father will be accepted. He then states that many will do many wonderful things and notice Christ does not deny that they did, but what they where doing was not in accordance to the will of the Father.
He clarifies this section of Scripture, by what He says next.
Mat 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
Mat 7:25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26 But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
Mat 7:27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Mat 7:28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching,
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
Christ says that those who hear and do His will are wise. This is similar to what James says:
Jas 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
Jas 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
Jas 1:24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
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L
The Bible says that the wages of sin is death and that we have all sinned. Our sin was transferred to Christ and therefore He had to die. He took our sin and took our punishment which was death.
Romans 6:23
(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Peter 3:18
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
2 Corinthians 5:21
(21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Romans 6:23
(23) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Peter 3:18
(18) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
2 Corinthians 5:21
(21) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.