Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
He was pointing out that he thinks Jesus is less than God, not equal with God.
The new covenant with Christ Jesus
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K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
I saw that to, but doesn't that apply to us as well.
We know the words of the bible are God's, we also know that man wrote the bible.
What does God's word say about this; It says the scriptures were written by men who were inspired by God on what to write.
Which is why the bible tells us also to test and question all things, because anybody can say what they wrote or said was from God.
Look at the crusades for example, how many were killed for refusing to convert to Christianity ?
They said they were charged by God to do this, however the word of our Lord says we are not to kill or force our beliefs on any body.
I saw that to, but doesn't that apply to us as well.
We know the words of the bible are God's, we also know that man wrote the bible.
What does God's word say about this; It says the scriptures were written by men who were inspired by God on what to write.
Which is why the bible tells us also to test and question all things, because anybody can say what they wrote or said was from God.
Look at the crusades for example, how many were killed for refusing to convert to Christianity ?
They said they were charged by God to do this, however the word of our Lord says we are not to kill or force our beliefs on any body.
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
Thanks for trying to help but that is not what I was trying to say!
Thanks for trying to help but that is not what I was trying to say!
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
which is what denying the deity of Jesus Christ is,
is not the same as disagreeing on lesser matters.
Denying a fundamental tenet of Christianity is what identifies a sect,
as distinct from Christianity.
And you can expect denial of it, in accordance with the practice of denial.
Denying a fundamental tenet of orthodox Christianity,
which is what denying the deity of Jesus Christ is,
is not the same as disagreeing on lesser matters.
Denying a fundamental tenet of Christianity is what identifies a sect,
as distinct from Christianity.
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Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
I agree we are not to judge. We are saved by grace and faith. Those that are guided by the holy spirit are led to not sin.
I agree we are not to judge. We are saved by grace and faith. Those that are guided by the holy spirit are led to not sin.
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
Read the whole thread of Is Jesus God and you will see my view. Labeling me by any means does not identify me.
Read the whole thread of Is Jesus God and you will see my view. Labeling me by any means does not identify me.
Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
I changed the thread name back again to what it's suppose to say.
Leviticus 19;16-18
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
I changed the thread name back again to what it's suppose to say.
Leviticus 19;16-18
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
The principle of God as a God of justice was shown when the idea of not doing such as cutting a hand off to pay when the crime was that of a very minor theft in the world that idea of justice was given. It was showing God as a just God in a world run by injustice. The principle of God's justice is not made null and void by Christ adding to it to turn the other cheek. As an example. God did not change that there was a high priest when Christ replaced the Levi high priest. Christ did not change that only blood saves when He became the blood that saves.
The modern church's idea that Christ wiped out when Christ improved all and made better is in error.
If Jesus is one with God, if we have only one God as scripture tells us, how can you talk about God trumping God? Or make the statement that God changed God?
The principle of God as a God of justice was shown when the idea of not doing such as cutting a hand off to pay when the crime was that of a very minor theft in the world that idea of justice was given. It was showing God as a just God in a world run by injustice. The principle of God's justice is not made null and void by Christ adding to it to turn the other cheek. As an example. God did not change that there was a high priest when Christ replaced the Levi high priest. Christ did not change that only blood saves when He became the blood that saves.
The modern church's idea that Christ wiped out when Christ improved all and made better is in error.
Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
Jesus did nothing outside of the Father's will. Here are the 2 scripture references to Elin that I posted that started this controversy. Then I added that Jesus was fully endowed with the God's holy Spirit. I will add that Jesus is noted as being both the son of Man and the Son of God. I'm not Mormon or JW either (Just sayin')
John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Now let me add scripture saying who raised Jesus from the grave.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved .
And speaking of raising from the dead, Jesus said of Himself
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up .
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
So what's the controversy all about? (I change the name of the thread back to what it originally was ....again)
Jesus did nothing outside of the Father's will. Here are the 2 scripture references to Elin that I posted that started this controversy. Then I added that Jesus was fully endowed with the God's holy Spirit. I will add that Jesus is noted as being both the son of Man and the Son of God. I'm not Mormon or JW either (Just sayin')
John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Now let me add scripture saying who raised Jesus from the grave.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved .
And speaking of raising from the dead, Jesus said of Himself
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up .
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
So what's the controversy all about? (I change the name of the thread back to what it originally was ....again)
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K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
One thing I have done here, and done in the past is show you and others what the OT scriptures say. Then show you what the NT scriptures say in how it was changed.
You have disagreed with me, and refused to believe the change.
You can disagree with me all you want, but if you disagree with the scriptures I have shown then you disagreement is with God.
OT says eye for an eye, the NT says no
OT holds people to certain foods to eat, the NT does not unless you know it has been offered to idols
OT has punishments that were handed out for sins, NT Jesus says to love and forgive
And there are others....
One thing I have done here, and done in the past is show you and others what the OT scriptures say. Then show you what the NT scriptures say in how it was changed.
You have disagreed with me, and refused to believe the change.
You can disagree with me all you want, but if you disagree with the scriptures I have shown then you disagreement is with God.
OT says eye for an eye, the NT says no
OT holds people to certain foods to eat, the NT does not unless you know it has been offered to idols
OT has punishments that were handed out for sins, NT Jesus says to love and forgive
And there are others....
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
I do not deny I wrote any of that. Can you refute using scriptures? I back everything up with scripture so why do you not copy that also instead of being an editor and selectIin only parts or better yet answer over there.
I do not deny I wrote any of that. Can you refute using scriptures? I back everything up with scripture so why do you not copy that also instead of being an editor and selectIin only parts or better yet answer over there.
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Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
One must understand that the Priesthood changed. This points directly to what has been fulfilled. Everything in the old testament concerning the Priesthood and their duties in the tabernacle/temple/sanctuary have been fulfilled in Christ. The spiritual principles of law apart from that are the same as originally stated by God that every man shall live. (Deuteronomy 8:3, and Matthew 4:4)
The only change is the priesthood from Levi to Judah in Christ Jesus along with the physical temple ordinances. Now all things are defined as spiritual in respect to us being of the royal priesthood, and also the temple of the living God.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said , I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I changed the name of the thread back to what it's suppose to be.
One must understand that the Priesthood changed. This points directly to what has been fulfilled. Everything in the old testament concerning the Priesthood and their duties in the tabernacle/temple/sanctuary have been fulfilled in Christ. The spiritual principles of law apart from that are the same as originally stated by God that every man shall live. (Deuteronomy 8:3, and Matthew 4:4)
The only change is the priesthood from Levi to Judah in Christ Jesus along with the physical temple ordinances. Now all things are defined as spiritual in respect to us being of the royal priesthood, and also the temple of the living God.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said , I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I changed the name of the thread back to what it's suppose to be.
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
She only repost the text that suit her, to have the original post taken out of context.
She only repost the text that suit her, to have the original post taken out of context.
C
cfultz3
Guest
Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
Someone who does not show respect, expects respect by their disrespect. I personally would not trust anyone who would go as far as to gain glory points by rearranging words belonging to another to say what they want to hear and proclaim. Such a practice is false when all that is being said is that: just as the Hebrew placed himself into a covenant with God, we Christians have also placed ourselves into a covenant with Him.
That is because you are a confusing person. LOL I changed the thread name back again.
Someone who does not show respect, expects respect by their disrespect. I personally would not trust anyone who would go as far as to gain glory points by rearranging words belonging to another to say what they want to hear and proclaim. Such a practice is false when all that is being said is that: just as the Hebrew placed himself into a covenant with God, we Christians have also placed ourselves into a covenant with Him.
Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
I've noticed that also.
I changed the name of the thread back to what I originally intended.
LOL I think Elin changed it which agrees with what you said.
I've noticed that also.
I changed the name of the thread back to what I originally intended.
LOL I think Elin changed it which agrees with what you said.Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
It is very obvious that's what she does, and like minded people condone her behavior and that's appalling.
I've noticed that also.
I changed the name of the thread back to what I originally intended.
It is very obvious that's what she does, and like minded people condone her behavior and that's appalling.
Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
Amen!
It has become abundantly clear to me that living outside the requirements of Covenant with Almighty God is equivalent to “holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” 2 Timothy 3:5 (NAS). We have no excuse for failing to fulfill our part of the Covenant because “The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant.” Psalm 25:14 (NAS) and "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent.” Acts 17:30 (NAS)
Think about how far the obligations of being a party to Covenant reach, even in secular history, let alone what God requires – we are bound by the nature of Covenant to bless one another because we are not in Covenant with God alone. The other parties are all other Christians everywhere. I don’t know about you, but I have just been convicted of being critical of others…and not just the unbelievers….
“So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do.” Deuteronomy 29:9 (NAS)
Amen!
It has become abundantly clear to me that living outside the requirements of Covenant with Almighty God is equivalent to “holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” 2 Timothy 3:5 (NAS). We have no excuse for failing to fulfill our part of the Covenant because “The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant.” Psalm 25:14 (NAS) and "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent.” Acts 17:30 (NAS)
Think about how far the obligations of being a party to Covenant reach, even in secular history, let alone what God requires – we are bound by the nature of Covenant to bless one another because we are not in Covenant with God alone. The other parties are all other Christians everywhere. I don’t know about you, but I have just been convicted of being critical of others…and not just the unbelievers….
“So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do.” Deuteronomy 29:9 (NAS)
It just isn’t that hard to understand and I am disturbed when I think about the mental, and consequently the spiritual, state of people who refuse to learn. I say “refuse” because a child could follow this illustration which I have used before concerning this subject.
An illustration of this entire concept of the “old” and the “new/renewed” covenants and how the new is not a separate unconnected entity which made the “old” obsolete, of no value, null and void, can be seen when doing a word study on the various key words, such as: “faultless” in Hebrews 8:7: “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.” According to Strong’s Concordance, the word “faultless” in this verse is the Greek word # 278 ametameletos am-et-am-el'-ay-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 3338; irrevocable:--without repentance, not to be repented of. Since it was derived from # 3338, I had to follow that back to see how it is described. And on it went but it got quite involved so I am going to skip the long Greek definitions for everything I was led to as I studied and consolidate things.
One thing I noticed was that the Greek word “meta” is part of all of these derivative words and that led me to the word we still use today – metamorphosis. (Strong’s #3339 = metamorphoo met-am-or-fo'-o from 3326 and 3445; to transform (literally or figuratively, "metamorphose"):--change, transfigure, transform) Consider the lowly caterpillar for a moment. The caterpillar hatches from the egg a butterfly laid on a leaf and lives out its life happily munching on the plant where it hatched. It can only eat certain varieties of leaves – a comparison in my own mind of the food of God’s Word that we need to consume to be spiritually nourished. Once it has eaten all it needs to grow as big as it is supposed to (easily compared to God’s timing for each level of His covenant to be accomplished, step-by-step), the caterpillar forms a chrysalis or pupa. I used to think that a caterpillar spun a chrysalis and then emerged, like a spider spins a web, but the caterpillar actually becomes the chrysalis and this is where the transformation we call metamorphosis occurs. While the caterpillar is in the form of the chrysalis, its body is changing – not dying! When all of the forming and changing is complete, the caterpillar emerges as a beautiful butterfly. The butterfly should be seen as a completion of the old, not because the caterpillar was faulty, but because it had its purpose to fulfill just like the levels of God’s covenant have to each be fulfilled so the next stage can be built upon it. The New/Renewed Covenant must be seen as COMPLETION OF THE OLD...NOT FAULTY – just incomplete, which is why Jesus said He came to “FULFILL” and not destroy what God had already set in place.
If one thinks about it, we can’t be born again if we have never been born so that too is based upon something “old” or in existence before the new birth. That reminded me of way back when our kids were young and we had a record of Barry McGuire singing Bullfrogs and Butterflies. And since everything God created has a spiritual application, if one rejects this concept, what does that say about him rejecting God’s perfect creation of which the butterfly is a part? Kill the caterpillar and see if a butterfly is ever produced. Break the cycle and both new and old cease to exist.
Face it, the dynamics are lost if the “old” is discarded.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3enBv3MzLI )
An illustration of this entire concept of the “old” and the “new/renewed” covenants and how the new is not a separate unconnected entity which made the “old” obsolete, of no value, null and void, can be seen when doing a word study on the various key words, such as: “faultless” in Hebrews 8:7: “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.” According to Strong’s Concordance, the word “faultless” in this verse is the Greek word # 278 ametameletos am-et-am-el'-ay-tos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 3338; irrevocable:--without repentance, not to be repented of. Since it was derived from # 3338, I had to follow that back to see how it is described. And on it went but it got quite involved so I am going to skip the long Greek definitions for everything I was led to as I studied and consolidate things.
One thing I noticed was that the Greek word “meta” is part of all of these derivative words and that led me to the word we still use today – metamorphosis. (Strong’s #3339 = metamorphoo met-am-or-fo'-o from 3326 and 3445; to transform (literally or figuratively, "metamorphose"):--change, transfigure, transform) Consider the lowly caterpillar for a moment. The caterpillar hatches from the egg a butterfly laid on a leaf and lives out its life happily munching on the plant where it hatched. It can only eat certain varieties of leaves – a comparison in my own mind of the food of God’s Word that we need to consume to be spiritually nourished. Once it has eaten all it needs to grow as big as it is supposed to (easily compared to God’s timing for each level of His covenant to be accomplished, step-by-step), the caterpillar forms a chrysalis or pupa. I used to think that a caterpillar spun a chrysalis and then emerged, like a spider spins a web, but the caterpillar actually becomes the chrysalis and this is where the transformation we call metamorphosis occurs. While the caterpillar is in the form of the chrysalis, its body is changing – not dying! When all of the forming and changing is complete, the caterpillar emerges as a beautiful butterfly. The butterfly should be seen as a completion of the old, not because the caterpillar was faulty, but because it had its purpose to fulfill just like the levels of God’s covenant have to each be fulfilled so the next stage can be built upon it. The New/Renewed Covenant must be seen as COMPLETION OF THE OLD...NOT FAULTY – just incomplete, which is why Jesus said He came to “FULFILL” and not destroy what God had already set in place.
If one thinks about it, we can’t be born again if we have never been born so that too is based upon something “old” or in existence before the new birth. That reminded me of way back when our kids were young and we had a record of Barry McGuire singing Bullfrogs and Butterflies. And since everything God created has a spiritual application, if one rejects this concept, what does that say about him rejecting God’s perfect creation of which the butterfly is a part? Kill the caterpillar and see if a butterfly is ever produced. Break the cycle and both new and old cease to exist.
Face it, the dynamics are lost if the “old” is discarded.
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3enBv3MzLI )