The new Woke movement

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luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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You're not getting it.

You are ADDING ideas to the text that simply aren't there. Rev. 9:20 does NOT talk about "the love mankind has for the things his hands produce"; it talks about repenting of the works of their hands, then it talks directly about idols, not everyday manufactured goods.

The earth is NOT being destroyed by the burning of fossil fuels; that's a pseudoscientific lie you have apparently swallowed whole.
Revelation 9:20 informs us of the reason mankind will not repent, which is their enamored status to materialism/idolatry.
And Revelation 9:21 informs us of the immoral unjust results from an enamored status to materialism/idolatry.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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People are waking to the fact that those in power, and those on high in industry, could not care less about the environment being destroyed by their excessive use of fossil fuels,
This is rich. Those same hypocrites who talk about the environment (e.g. John Kerry) are the same traitors and evildoers who jet around the globe simply to talk nonsense.

But here is something which Christians should be aware of:
Why Woke Christianity Is The Greatest Threat To Christians Today
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

In Revelation 7:1 we see the four angels of God holding back the winds, to not blow (excessively) on the earth, nor the sea. The four angels are holding back the four winds as commanded until their fellow brethren servants of God are sealed with Gods seal of truth.
You are, however, in a way correct. The Lord could have kept His four angels to continue refraining the winds from blowing excessively and damaging the earth and seas, but instead, the Lord decided enough was enough, and that once His servants on earth were sealed with His truth, the restraining of extreme wind on earth and sea, due to mankind's love for the things his hands produce through fossil fuel burning industries, would then no longer be restrained.
The way you speak, the environmentalists will be the ones being saved, rather than true believers who actually have God's seal...

2 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 (KJV) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I don't see anything about friendly environmentalism in those verses above as a prerequisite to being sealed.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,811
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People around the world are waking up to the truth, with their knowledge increasing, and are therefore less gullible to the lies the world's governments have been feeding them.
I wish. Some people still believe that the earth is flat. Satan is the god of of this world system and he controls it. He has blinded those who are perishing and they will accept the Antichrist without question. Christians have insight but they also need to ensure that they stay alert and not allow themselves to be deceived.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
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Revelation 9:20 informs us of the reason mankind will not repent, which is their enamored status to materialism/idolatry.
And Revelation 9:21 informs us of the immoral unjust results from an enamored status to materialism/idolatry.
That is simply incorrect. Here's the NIV, which is about as clear as anything:

20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Firstly, who is in view here? "The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues". So the plagues (fire, smoke, and sulphur, v. 18) which kill 1/3 of mankind must come first. That rules out anything happening presently.

Secondly, look carefully at the punctuation and grammar of verse 20. They did not repent of the work of their hands SEMICOLON they did not stop worshiping demons and idols. IDOLS are "the work of their hands" of which they did not repent.

Thirdly, look carefully at the structure of verse 21. NOR did they repent of their murders, etc. The "Nor" puts this alongside worshiping demons idols and demons; it does not make it a result of worshiping demons and idols.

Exegesis is not that difficult, but you won't get it if you ignore the structure, punctuation and grammar.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,173
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I think they stay deceived cos the govt can pay people to be deceived.
eg. in nazi germany, many people never realised what they were doing was wrong because they had comfortable lives that the govt was subsidising. Hence concentrations camps and such like.

its like farm subsidies, the govt pays farmers to farm land in such a way that totally ruins the land, pays for fertilisers and chemicals etc and the farmers go along with it because they get paid.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
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I'll say this. I've learned through study that the Almighty hates an unjust balance. It (along with other things) is considered an abomination.

Proverbs 11:1
A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 20:23
Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.


"mene mene tekel parsin..."


Both in the OT and NT we read about how "the path must be made straight; event mountain laid low and every valley filled in" (Isa 40:4; Luke 3:5) to prepare for the coming of the Lord. Mountains in scripture represent governments/kingdoms.

Were these passages prophesying a reset that must happen prior to the Messiah's arrival?

Only time will tell I suppose...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
3,649
113
I'll say this. I've learned through study that the Almighty hates an unjust balance. It (along with other things) is considered an abomination.

Proverbs 11:1
A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 20:23
Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.


"mene mene tekel parsin..."


Both in the OT and NT we read about how "the path must be made straight; event mountain laid low and every valley filled in" (Isa 40:4; Luke 3:5) to prepare for the coming of the Lord. Mountains in scripture represent governments/kingdoms.

Were these passages prophesying a reset that must happen prior to the Messiah's arrival?

Only time will tell I suppose...
No, those verses in Proverbs you quoted was speaking of riches gained by deceit, not a reset.
If someone wants to learn what it looks like after a Communist ’reset’, just read Animal Farm by Orwell.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
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No, those verses in Proverbs you quoted was speaking of riches gained by deceit, not a reset.
If someone wants to learn what it looks like after a Communist ’reset’, just read Animal Farm by Orwell.
What about these passages? What do they mean?

Both in the OT and NT we read about how "the path must be made straight; event mountain laid low and every valley filled in" (Isa 40:4; Luke 3:5) to prepare for the coming of the Lord. Mountains in scripture represent governments/kingdoms.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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What about these passages? What do they mean?
That's speaking of the pride of nations which God ALONE will lay low. Mankind merely messes things up when he tries to build God's Kingdom here on earth.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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That's speaking of the pride of nations which God ALONE will lay low. Mankind merely messes things up when he tries to build God's Kingdom here on earth.
Ok. And what about when Messiah said, "The first shall be last and the last shall be first"? Also, there's daniel's vision of the kingdoms of the world prefigured by Nebuchadnezzar's statue. The stone from heaven (that represents Messiah's kingdom) completely crushes the statue into powder. No more human governments.

Whenever a nation rose or fell scripture says it was and would be by The Almighty's hand...but of course human history records intrigue & betrayals; uprisings & wars. Can He perform another supernatural destruction like Sodam & Gommorah, surely, but typically it's using other men and women even though secular mankind never gives Him the credit.

For example, Babylon conquers the known world. Nebuchadnezzar says he was the one who did it...but then the Almighty corrects him and says, "No, I did it through you. POW! You're now a beast".

My point is, who's to say what's happening now isn't the Almighty doing it? Who's to say this growing chaos isn't judgment?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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Ok. And what about when Messiah said, "The first shall be last and the last shall be first"? Also, there's daniel's vision of the kingdoms of the world prefigured by Nebuchadnezzar's statue. The stone from heaven (that represents Messiah's kingdom) completely crushes the statue into powder. No more human governments.

Whenever a nation rose or fell scripture says it was and would be by The Almighty's hand...but of course human history records intrigue & betrayals; uprisings & wars. Can He perform another supernatural destruction like Sodam & Gommorah, surely, but typically it's using other men and women even though secular mankind never gives Him the credit.
It will be the Stone without hands that crushes the Image...

Daniel 2:34 (KJV) Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Daniel 2:45 (KJV) Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,702
684
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It will be the Stone without hands that crushes the Image...

Daniel 2:34 (KJV) Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

Daniel 2:45 (KJV) Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Yup. It's also a vision. Kingdoms aren't stacked atop one another vertically in different metals...unless you're saying all of this will be crushed by a meteor? If that's what you're saying, then ok. It's a possibility.

But the point I was making with the passage was that there'd no longer be human governments/kingdoms once Messiah comes, that includes the USA, so don't hold onto this place too tightly. The Messiah isn't going to come down waving the red, white, and blue, yelling, "To me Republicans!". Of course, He's not going to call to His side the Democratic party either (for obvious reasons). BOTH parties are political. BOTH were created by man's hand. Neither party fully lives up to the teachings of the Messiah.


Job 12:23 (BSB)
He makes nations great and destroys them; He enlarges nations, then disperses them.


In the meantime until total destruction, who's to say what's happening now in this country isn't the Almighty's doing? Who's to say this growing chaos isn't judgment? There's nothing in scripture that says the USA was meant to remain here until the coming of the King...at least as far as I've found so far.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,704
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Yup. It's also a vision. Kingdoms aren't stacked atop one another vertically in different metals...unless you're saying all of this will be crushed by a meteor? If that's what you're saying, then ok. It's a possibility.
Yup, a vision which will literally be fulfilled when all the Gentile nations will be brought down at the Coming of Jesus and He will reign from Jerusalem. (and no, my faith is not in the red, white and blue, but only in Jesus. (What gave you that crazy idea?).
The only difference between the Dems and Rep platforms, is that the former is further removed from Scriptures that the latter, but I definitely won't make a case for moral equivalency between the two.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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This is rich. Those same hypocrites who talk about the environment (e.g. John Kerry) are the same traitors and evildoers who jet around the globe simply to talk nonsense.

But here is something which Christians should be aware of:
Why Woke Christianity Is The Greatest Threat To Christians Today
I am aware there are hypocrites among every body, including they who are now waking to the truth. That's just the way of the world. If there's money in it, you're going to have those who pretend to be adamantly pro resolving some inequity, whatever the issue may be, but who only do so, for their own personal gain. It's called politics.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
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The way you speak, the environmentalists will be the ones being saved, rather than true believers who actually have God's seal...

2 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 (KJV) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I don't see anything about friendly environmentalism in those verses above as a prerequisite to being sealed.
True believers in Christ are they who believe in the Way of Christ, which is to Love God and your neighbor. The transgressors in Daniel 8 do not believe in the Way of Christ, and are therefore those who have profit as their primary god. The welfare of people, or damage to the environment is irrelevant if it stands in the way of their god Mammon.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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I wish. Some people still believe that the earth is flat. Satan is the god of of this world system and he controls it. He has blinded those who are perishing and they will accept the Antichrist without question. Christians have insight but they also need to ensure that they stay alert and not allow themselves to be deceived.
Good morning Gideon, I agree with much of what you say. Satan is the god/love of this world, and he currently controls it. He blinds the eyes of those who believe in lucre/mammon. Those blinded are they who deny the truth, in order to continue enjoying the ways of unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2:9-13). When the man of sin (the Antichrist), comes around (2 Thessalonians 2) they will readily accept him. All these individuals who are not written in the lambs book of life, will love his way, as it is also the way of Satan and the Beast (Revelation 13:4 & 8).
But before all of this happens, all people around the world have to be made aware of what the truth is that is destroying the world, and causing the increase of immorality and injustices (Revelation 9:20-21). People beforehand, will then either acknowledge the truth, and be sealed with God's seal of truth (Revelation 7), or they will deny the truth and accept the lie, so that they may continue to take pleasure in this world of unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2:9-13).
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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That is simply incorrect. Here's the NIV, which is about as clear as anything:

20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Firstly, who is in view here? "The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues". So the plagues (fire, smoke, and sulphur, v. 18) which kill 1/3 of mankind must come first. That rules out anything happening presently.

Secondly, look carefully at the punctuation and grammar of verse 20. They did not repent of the work of their hands SEMICOLON they did not stop worshiping demons and idols. IDOLS are "the work of their hands" of which they did not repent.

Thirdly, look carefully at the structure of verse 21. NOR did they repent of their murders, etc. The "Nor" puts this alongside worshiping demons idols and demons; it does not make it a result of worshiping demons and idols.

Exegesis is not that difficult, but you won't get it if you ignore the structure, punctuation and grammar.
There are numerous translations of the Bible, many of which are translated from the King James Version. King James hired the very best interpreters, to interpret all the biblical texts that were available. I therefore choose to use the KJV for the most accurate interpretation.
My exegesis as you call it is based on the KJV, along with modern day events, which is what much of what the book of Revelation is about.
Common sense, is a basic understanding, that if what is going on in the environment today correlates with what is described in Revelation 8, which Revelation 9:20 KJV attributes to the love mankind has for the things his hands produce; then I realize that the cause for the destruction of one third of earth's environment in Revelation 8 is due to fossil fuel burning industries.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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I wish. Some people still believe that the earth is flat. Satan is the god of of this world system and he controls it. He has blinded those who are perishing and they will accept the Antichrist without question. Christians have insight but they also need to ensure that they stay alert and not allow themselves to be deceived.
By the way Gideon, people do need to stay alert, because after 1/3 of the earth's environmental resources are destroyed, is when Satan is kicked out from heaven and vests the Beast with his power, which in turn will have the whole world who are not written in the lambs book of life, in adoration of the new world order. This new world order will supposedly rectify much of the damage that will have been ensuing throughout the world due to its severe degradation. Don't be fooled then, when things look wonderful.