The Pope on 'Gay Marriage.'

[Newluke]

... UNBELIEVABLE!!!

but true...: I'm in agreement with what the POPE said on 'gay marriage' (quoting a RABBI) in his XMAS address!!!

The Pope has pressed his opposition to gay marriage today saying the future of mankind is at stake.
Pope Benedict XVI denounced what he described as people manipulating their God-given identities to suit their sexual choices - and destroying the very 'essence of the human creature' in the process.
He made the comments in his annual Christmas address to the Vatican bureaucracy, one of his most important speeches of the year.

He dedicated it this year to promoting traditional family values in the face of vocal campaigns in France, the U.S., Britain and elsewhere to legalise same-sex marriage.
In his remarks, Pope Benedict quoted the chief rabbi of France, Gilles Bernheim, in saying the campaign for granting gays the right to marry and adopt children was an 'attack' on the traditional family made up of a father, mother and children.
'People dispute the idea that they have a nature, given to them by their bodily identity, that serves as a defining element of the human being,' he said. 'They deny their nature and decide that it is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves.'


'The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man's fundamental choice where he himself is concerned,' he said.
It was the second time in a week that Pope Benedict has taken on the question of gay marriage, which is dividing France, and which scored big electoral wins in the U.S. last month. In his recently released annual peace message, Pope Benedict said gay marriage, like abortion and euthanasia, was a threat to world peace.

source:
Pope Benedict XVI denounces gay marriage in Christmas message | Mail Online

 

[HeavenlyWarrior]

That should come as no surprise to anyone considering how the pope has traditionally always taken that position on such things.

However, he obviously did not read the following report of history on that subject matter taken from Professor Boswell of Yale University where he was Chairman of the History Department. He brings out a real Eye-Opener report on the subject of same-sex marriage being performed some centuries back in the Christian church. According to the report there apparently was an "Office of Same-Sex Union" in the 10th and 11th centuries as well as an "Order for Uniting Two Men" in the 11th and 12th centuries!

When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite: https://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html

 

[Ritter]

That should come as no surprise to anyone considering how the pope has traditionally always taken that position on such things.

However, he obviously did not read the following report of history on that subject matter taken from Professor Boswell of Yale University where he was Chairman of the History Department. He brings out a real Eye-Opener report on the subject of same-sex marriage being performed some centuries back in the Christian church. According to the report there apparently was an "Office of Same-Sex Union" in the 10th and 11th centuries as well as an "Order for Uniting Two Men" in the 11th and 12th centuries!

When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite: https://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html

This just reeks of arrogant presumption. Perhaps he read similar reports and found factual errors. Perhaps he accepts the facts presented and simply judges the existence of these institutions to be morally wrong based on overarching Church tradition. That wouldn't be the first time in history that the Catholic Church knowingly reversed positions.

 

[Nautilus]

Maybe once catholic priests stop molesting young boys and covering it up ill care about the popes opinion on homosexual relations

 

[raf]

Maybe once catholic priests stop molesting young boys and covering it up ill care about the popes opinion on homosexual relations

I dont think those priests represent the entire church. For the same reason pastors obsessing over Israel, also being caught with child pornography, being caught with male prostitutes *like ted haggard* dont represent their entire church or organization.

 

[Liamson]

That should come as no surprise to anyone considering how the pope has traditionally always taken that position on such things.

However, he obviously did not read the following report of history on that subject matter taken from Professor Boswell of Yale University where he was Chairman of the History Department. He brings out a real Eye-Opener report on the subject of same-sex marriage being performed some centuries back in the Christian church. According to the report there apparently was an "Office of Same-Sex Union" in the 10th and 11th centuries as well as an "Order for Uniting Two Men" in the 11th and 12th centuries!

When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite: https://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html

Hmm... I do not fault you for faulty sources, however uninspired as they may seem. They are in fact disingenuous and misleading.

I invite you to click my link if you dare

Pushing the Gay Agenda in the Greek Archdiocese | OrthodoxNet.com Blog


and if you should find that read lacking in depth and scope, here is a far more intricate and indpeth debunking.

New Oxford Review


"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Tim 4:3

 

[dru]

I dont think those priests represent the entire church. For the same reason pastors obsessing over Israel, also being caught with child pornography, being caught with male prostitutes *like ted haggard* dont represent their entire church or organization.

i agrree with you-that christian leaders dont represent everyone with some of their bad deeds,i totally agree with you but the part where pastors obsess over israel?no,this is because God uses the nation of israel as His prophetic clock because any prophecy that comes to pass and has pass in our time,is always related to the nation of israel one way or the other.
I also understand that some pastors are promoting some kind of zionist ideologies in the way they teach,like saying that jews dont have to be born again to get into heaven,that they are holy even though they do not believe that is Jesus is the mesasiah.they make israel look special in an exergerated kind of way(although God says they are His people but then God is sovereighn and He has His own reasons)
btw God also has a plan for the arab people though they do not believe in Him. its also sad to here church leaders molesting kids and sleeping with prostitutes

 

[HeavenlyWarrior]

Hmm... I do not fault you for faulty sources, however uninspired as they may seem. They are in fact disingenuous and misleading.

I invite you to click my link if you dare

Pushing the Gay Agenda in the Greek Archdiocese | OrthodoxNet.com Blog

Ah, "... the Gay Agenda"! That pretty well explains where they are coming from and speaks volumes to this situation and one already knows pretty well what they believe whenever we hear those words being used.


and if you should find that read lacking in depth and scope, here is a far more intricate and indpeth debunking.

New Oxford Review


"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Tim 4:3

Likewise my friend, it is somewhat hard to totally fault you for using inappropriate Scripture, etc. to try to sustain your own beliefs. There can be little doubt that those who are totally for belief in something are going to fight tooth 'n nail despite any evidence presented to the contrary, even if it is by a Historian, a fine person with a doctorate and professorship who is a History Scholar and who Chaired the History Department of a most prestigious University, just to maintain their structure of thought and personal belief. Therefore, we can only pray for the inner peace in those (and there are many) who would thwart such information such as to try to suppress it from surfacing so the world can learn the truth without prejudice.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

Cardinal Dolan of New York has expressed his opinion that New York is not a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. New York is in fact a homosexual state, that has legalized homosexual marriage, and promotes procreation and adoption in those marriages. New York's highest judge, judge Judith Kay affirms.

New York not today's Sodom and Gomorrah - N.Y.'s new cardinal
New York not today's Sodom and Gomorrah - N.Y.'s new cardinal | Reuters <<-- Link

New York's Highest Court Rules Unmarried Couples Can Adopt - NYTimes.com <<-- Link


NY Governors promoted same sex marriage:

The Marriage Equality Act is a 2011 New York State law - it was introduced to the New York State Assembly by Assemblyman Daniel O'Donnell. It was signed into law on June 24, 2011, and took effect on July 24, 2011.

Prior legislative history A similar bill which would legalize same-sex marriage performances in New York was passed by the State Assembly in 2007 by a majority of 85-61,[6] but languished in the Republican-controlled Senate before dying and being returned to the Assembly.[6] Then-governor Eliot Spitzer promoted the bill among lawmakers in Albany.
Another bill, A40003, was passed in the Assembly on May 12, 2009 with a majority of 89-52,[7] but languished in the Senate during the November 10 special session.[8] It was re-passed by the Assembly on December 2[9] but the Senate equivalent, S4401-2009, was defeated on the same day in the Senate by a majority of 38-24, with 8 Democratic senators voting against the Democratic caucus.[10] David Paterson, who also promoted the bill, introduced the bill on April 16.[11]
Enactment

Governor Andrew Cuomo, like his predecessor Paterson, promoted the bill and the general movement for legalization of same-sex marriage in the state. The majority of the Democratic senatorial caucus, which constituted the minority in the Senate in June 2011, also supported legalization of same-sex marriage.

 

[HeavenlyWarrior]

Cardinal Dolan of New York has expressed his opinion that New York is not a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. New York is in fact a homosexual state, that has legalized homosexual marriage, and promotes procreation and adoption in those marriages. New York's highest judge, judge Judith Kay affirms.

New York not today's Sodom and Gomorrah - N.Y.'s new cardinal
New York not today's Sodom and Gomorrah - N.Y.'s new cardinal | Reuters <<-- Link

New York's Highest Court Rules Unmarried Couples Can Adopt - NYTimes.com <<-- Link


NY Governors promoted same sex marriage:

The Marriage Equality Act is a 2011 New York State law - it was introduced to the New York State Assembly by Assemblyman Daniel O'Donnell. It was signed into law on June 24, 2011, and took effect on July 24, 2011.

Prior legislative history A similar bill which would legalize same-sex marriage performances in New York was passed by the State Assembly in 2007 by a majority of 85-61,[6] but languished in the Republican-controlled Senate before dying and being returned to the Assembly.[6] Then-governor Eliot Spitzer promoted the bill among lawmakers in Albany.
Another bill, A40003, was passed in the Assembly on May 12, 2009 with a majority of 89-52,[7] but languished in the Senate during the November 10 special session.[8] It was re-passed by the Assembly on December 2[9] but the Senate equivalent, S4401-2009, was defeated on the same day in the Senate by a majority of 38-24, with 8 Democratic senators voting against the Democratic caucus.[10] David Paterson, who also promoted the bill, introduced the bill on April 16.[11]
Enactment

Governor Andrew Cuomo, like his predecessor Paterson, promoted the bill and the general movement for legalization of same-sex marriage in the state. The majority of the Democratic senatorial caucus, which constituted the minority in the Senate in June 2011, also supported legalization of same-sex marriage.

It certainly is interesting and refreshing, for a change, to learn of the Progression of the R.C.C. in this matter by such a high figure in the Church! And the Pope might possibly also share this same view but only not so openly? Why you ask? Well, you need look no further than to the 13th Paragraph in the article you cited entitled "New York not today's Sodom and Gomorrah - N.Y.'s new cardinal" where it starts by saying " .... The pope is a conservative .... " for your answer.

Before making him a Cardinal, the Pope HAD to have known of his feelings and position on this matter after all, a Cardinal represents many of the Church's positions on items of concern such as this as they know their faith well and are the closest to the Pope. IMHO, the good Cardinal most likely knows about Professor Boswell's work and findings and perhaps even that of the professor's Historical predecessors who may have also done research and may have found the same historical information about the matter.

 

[Newluke]

I dont think those priests represent the entire church.

Catholic priests cannot represent the universal church by definition, or any church for that matter, since catholicism is heresy. The 'church' of rome has practically facilitated child abuse, so it has always been interesting for pedophiles to become priests. Child abuse in the catholic 'church' is institutionalized, in houses of worship, seminaries, (boarding) schools, etc. It is however rare within protestant churches.
That doesn't mean I can't still agree with the pope on 'gay marriage, though; heck... most muslims would agree with him too.

 

[resurrection33]

Jesus made it clear that men are not allowed to marry men:

[6] But from the beginning of creation, `God made them male and female.'
[7] `For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
[8] and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. Mark 10:6-8 RSV

 

[HeavenlyWarrior]

For the best well-balanced assessment on this topic, everyone should read the answers from the Christian Bible Reference organization.

What Does the Bible say about Homosexuality?

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

 

[AgapeSpiritEyes]

Profligacy abounds filth is the demonic virus reaching everywhere the flesh relishes in pleasure, These spirits are amassd over the whole world their army has no oppostional walls or barriers , The chrch is infiltrated, the plan of our Lord is the out pouring of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for this information and admonitions, now more than ever the wise and foolish are suspended in these perils. Lord pour out yor mercy so we to cry the deepest cry. Holy Spirit prick our hearts that we will be wise virgins that we shall awake in our spirit and soul and be humbled to forsake all. Give us the desires of Jesus' heart Dear Holy Spirit baptize us in His Fire far beyond the day of Pentecost (were the Holy Spirit's fire rested on their heads) that we receive wholly in our body soul and spirit This baptism of fire consume all our carnality and let us go out into the world in power never seen in the church to rescue those that have not heard, Let us go satan that we will meet Jesus our Groom, Harpazo us Lord Jesus OO come Lord Jesus and take us to yourself. Maranatha Precious Jesus all our hearts Love you and your coming.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

If the devil said that ... "6 + 6 = 12" ... I would accept that as a truth. I would not fawn all over him. I would be (am being) thankful that there is a reference book I can check from, believe in and share with others. I would be (am being) thankful that there is one great teacher who is THE WAY to truth, righteousness, enlightenment and life.

What do we do with a figurehead that can say about anything they want. Deception, being what it is, means a lot of good things might be said, to cover the falseness. A little leaven, leaveneth the whole loaf. It isn't about BAAL worship, and we do not believe nor does the Bible teach that 'sports will bring the nations together and bring peace on earth good will toward men'. The peace-nics the world over, from the No Bell Piece Prize (sic) cult in Norway to those who receive it, global, new world order politicians and propagandists (James Carter, Barak Obama, Dalai Lama and etc) are just more figureheads for a false and evil system. Noam Chomski and his corhorts and underlings, The liberal media, the Piers Morgans, The Queen Systems all crying ... Peace, Peace --- but there was no peace ... for their deeds were evil ...

 

[Nautilus]

now it is just devolving into crazy talk....

 

[Tommy4Christ]

I agree that gay marriage is an abomination to God, the pope has alot of power in the religious circles, and many look to him over God, Christ, and the word, so just know what the pope says is usually held in high regard by all the church people who have a form of godliness but deny its power.

This gay marriage problem will not go away until the dead church preaches the truth about repentance, and you will not hear this from the pope and most religious establishments including the papal.

You can complain all you want about all these vile agendas coming against the true church, gay marriage is just the tip of the iceberg, so until real repentance is preached and many are cut to the heart, sending them into a crisis of conviction on the scale of Nineveh, then nothing is going to happen, until God says enough is enough, and sends Jesus to judge the world, and I pray you will be ready, as most in the false church are dead and asleep to the truth that can transform the heart from a vile sinner into a real warrior for Christ, that can only come from a true repentant heart, made pure through an obedient faith!

2Ti 2:25 in meekness instructing those who oppose, if perhaps God will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they awake out of the snare of the Devil, having been taken captive by him, so as to do the will of that one.

 

[Nautilus]

Except that the majority of Gay Marriage proponents, dont care at all whether or not churches allow it. They just want governmental acknowledgement and benefits...So ive yet to understand why the church is so involved...

 

[HeavenlyWarrior]

Except that the majority of Gay Marriage proponents, dont care at all whether or not churches allow it. They just want governmental acknowledgement and benefits...So ive yet to understand why the church is so involved...

That is what I've heard too. They do want governmental acknowledgement and benefits they feel they are truly deserving of since they too are hard-working, tax-paying citizens and registered voters like everyone else who have paid into those programs but cannot reap the benefits as their Straight counterparts do. In fact, can you imagine that they cannot even go visit a sick loved one in many places when they are ill like at a hospital, nursing home, etc. or make legal decisions for them as Straight married couples can do! And should their loved one pass away, even though they are legally married in one of the several states that allow it, they still cannot collect any federal or state benefits. That is their Major argument which seems quite plausible. After all, if they are allowed to marry legally, they should be entitled to the same equal benefits that legal marriage provides to the Heterosexual community and I can see their extreme frustration in not being able to get it and instead to see that money they paid in to federal government programs for years and years go to their Straight counterparts as part of the funds given only to Heterosexuals.

Perhaps if the states and/or the Federal government do not want to relinquish that money to them, another way of rectifying the matter could be to pass Federal and State legislation only for Gay and Lesbian legally married couples completely EXEMPTING them from paying any state or Federal taxes and a portion of what they have already paid since being married returned to them, otherwise give them their Fair Share of the money they deserve for parity.

Therefore, they are seeking Equal Rights in this matter. That's it. As for churches getting involved, that is truly an anomaly. I don't understand it either except for the fact that they must be trying to keep a tradition going since the 14th Century. But as the Yale Professor's report indicated same-sex marriage existed back in the earlier centuries until it somehow became taboo later on around the 14th Century. The church is obviously trying to maintain its fear-based structure by somehow indicating that if a Gay or Lesbian couple marries in the State of Maine it is going to drastically affect a Straight couple and their children in Idaho, for instance. True, they don't even know the two who married in Maine but somehow I guess that would stir up the pot so to speak and get something going to try to undo their otherwise legal marriage that was done thousands of miles away.

 

[Newluke]

Except that the majority of Gay Marriage proponents, dont care at all whether or not churches allow it. They just want governmental acknowledgement and benefits...So ive yet to understand why the church is so involved...

True... if they DID care whether 'the churches' allowed it, they wouldn't want to get married in the first place!

It's GOD who doesn't allow it btw...