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A prime story testifying to the loss of reward for riotous living and yet....
a. Still alive through the whole process
b. Only perceived as dead
c. Still received as a SON with a ring (authority) and a robe (covered by the righteousness of Christ)
Used in error to teach a salvation that can be lost by the Cainologists, workers for, Pharisees, Lawyers etc....
a. Still alive through the whole process
b. Only perceived as dead
c. Still received as a SON with a ring (authority) and a robe (covered by the righteousness of Christ)
Used in error to teach a salvation that can be lost by the Cainologists, workers for, Pharisees, Lawyers etc....
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The Apostles Creed states what is required to be a Christian. It is a doctrinal document created by the elders in 312 with the earliest copy dating to 390. It also defines anything opposed to it as heresy. Before you rant Bible only keep in mind Bibles were extremely expensive and rare since they were copied by hand taking months to copy. Short doctrinal statements people could memorize was how Biblical concepts were passed on to the mostly illerate population. You always rant Bible only. Tell the board how before the printing press that was fesable.
I get very tired of your blindness to others different opinions. Part of the Apostles Creed was the concept by the elders creating it was and is agree to disagree outside of it. All of the different gospel preaching denominations today are testimony to this agree to disagree.
In this post you make assertions that there are disagreements about. Suck it up and live with the disagreements.
I get very tired of your blindness to others different opinions. Part of the Apostles Creed was the concept by the elders creating it was and is agree to disagree outside of it. All of the different gospel preaching denominations today are testimony to this agree to disagree.
In this post you make assertions that there are disagreements about. Suck it up and live with the disagreements.
This parable is about repentance, and understanding the love of our Father for his children.
An immense and wonderful love that seeks for the salvation of us rather than our perdition.
While we can extrapolate from this parable to us as Christians, it is primarily directed towards the Jews
and their religious leaders who were failing big time in their responsibilities of living the Law:
"And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, 'This man receives sinners and eats with them.'
Luke 15:2 RSV
>> parable of the lost sheep followed by parable of the lost coin >> parable of a lost son.
"Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took his journey into a far country,
and there he squandered his property in loose living." Luke 15:13 RSV
This is the story of both the Children of Israel, the Jews, and of Spirit-filled Christians, who can separate
themselves from the discipline and commitment to God's righteousness and embrace other gods.
"I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and before you;
I am no longer worthy to be called your son" … Luke 15:18-19 RSV
Repentance.
While we have life there is the hope of repentance and coming back to the light of the gospel
and humbling oneself unto Godly sorrow > contrition [a contrite heart].
I guess for the Jews and their leaders it also meant understanding the purpose of the Law and of mercy.
> The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Psalm 34:18
see also Isaiah 57:15 <
"... But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and
kissed him. < Luke 15:20 RSV
Love. The love of God that is true and eternal, ever faithful for he cannot deny himself; even though often we may
do so through unfaithfulness and many other wrongdoings.
However, repentance from sin and embracing Godliness is at the heart of the gospel of grace and salvation.
"for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." < Luke 15:24 RSV
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine
just persons, which need no repentance."< Luke 15:7 KJV
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son …
"Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
And he said, A certain man had two sons: … " Luke 15: 10-11 KJV
Well here is the crux of the parable …
one son repents BUT the other older son is angry about this
"But he was angry and refused to go in. …" < Luke 15:28 RSV
The entire second half of the parable is about the angry son; who may well represent the Jews and the Pharisees who
are the older, but self-righteous children being resentful of the new covenant to come, that would also bring salvation
to the gentiles. > see Paul's adventures with murderous and disgruntled Jewry in Acts.
Also it describes very well this same attitude in our churches where the self-righteous members who have never
faltered can be quite resentful of the return of sinners who have squandered their inheritance and now want to come
back and be forgiven.
Like the Pharisees self-righteous people seem to find joy and satisfaction over the perceived perdition of the
underserving or the deplorables of this world.
But this is not so with God who desires that all should come to salvation.
An immense and wonderful love that seeks for the salvation of us rather than our perdition.
While we can extrapolate from this parable to us as Christians, it is primarily directed towards the Jews
and their religious leaders who were failing big time in their responsibilities of living the Law:
"And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, 'This man receives sinners and eats with them.'
Luke 15:2 RSV
>> parable of the lost sheep followed by parable of the lost coin >> parable of a lost son.
"Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took his journey into a far country,
and there he squandered his property in loose living." Luke 15:13 RSV
This is the story of both the Children of Israel, the Jews, and of Spirit-filled Christians, who can separate
themselves from the discipline and commitment to God's righteousness and embrace other gods.
"I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and before you;
I am no longer worthy to be called your son" … Luke 15:18-19 RSV
Repentance.
While we have life there is the hope of repentance and coming back to the light of the gospel
and humbling oneself unto Godly sorrow > contrition [a contrite heart].
I guess for the Jews and their leaders it also meant understanding the purpose of the Law and of mercy.
> The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Psalm 34:18
see also Isaiah 57:15 <
"... But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and
kissed him. < Luke 15:20 RSV
Love. The love of God that is true and eternal, ever faithful for he cannot deny himself; even though often we may
do so through unfaithfulness and many other wrongdoings.
However, repentance from sin and embracing Godliness is at the heart of the gospel of grace and salvation.
"for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." < Luke 15:24 RSV
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine
just persons, which need no repentance."< Luke 15:7 KJV
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son …
"Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
And he said, A certain man had two sons: … " Luke 15: 10-11 KJV
Well here is the crux of the parable …
one son repents BUT the other older son is angry about this
"But he was angry and refused to go in. …" < Luke 15:28 RSV
The entire second half of the parable is about the angry son; who may well represent the Jews and the Pharisees who
are the older, but self-righteous children being resentful of the new covenant to come, that would also bring salvation
to the gentiles. > see Paul's adventures with murderous and disgruntled Jewry in Acts.
Also it describes very well this same attitude in our churches where the self-righteous members who have never
faltered can be quite resentful of the return of sinners who have squandered their inheritance and now want to come
back and be forgiven.
Like the Pharisees self-righteous people seem to find joy and satisfaction over the perceived perdition of the
underserving or the deplorables of this world.
But this is not so with God who desires that all should come to salvation.
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The son who stayed was bitter because he felt that obedience should warrant more love. It wasn’t mere love that caused the father to throw the party. It is the elation and the lifting of a heavy heart from years of worrying. His son was safe at home.
Note that the wayward son was still poor. The dad told the obedient son that everything was his. We are supposed to store up treasures in heaven. Although we may all receive everlasting life, the inheritance will not be equally divided.
Note that the wayward son was still poor. The dad told the obedient son that everything was his. We are supposed to store up treasures in heaven. Although we may all receive everlasting life, the inheritance will not be equally divided.
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I demand you refute it before dismissing them. You ignore that when it was written in 312 with the earliest writing of it from 390. There was only a few Bibles since they were hand copied and thus were extremely expensive. This document defined what a Christian must believe and defined anything contrary to be heresy, so much for your assertion about heresys. There were many different issues outside of the creeds that were then agree to disagree.
Creedal statements like this along with some scriptures memorized were how the concepts of the Bible were spread among an illiterate people and literate ones who didn't have a Bible.
You ignore the historical background of that time. Memorized scripture and creedal statements were used to spread the gospel. Thus the Apostles Creed, both Nicene creeds, the Athenasian Creed along with selected memorized scripture is how the gospel message was spread. During that time people memorized much information of all sorts. Literacy and documents were in short supply. Elders then made sure all creeds and other doctrinal statements were Biblical.
Creedal statements like this along with some scriptures memorized were how the concepts of the Bible were spread among an illiterate people and literate ones who didn't have a Bible.
You ignore the historical background of that time. Memorized scripture and creedal statements were used to spread the gospel. Thus the Apostles Creed, both Nicene creeds, the Athenasian Creed along with selected memorized scripture is how the gospel message was spread. During that time people memorized much information of all sorts. Literacy and documents were in short supply. Elders then made sure all creeds and other doctrinal statements were Biblical.
1. As some has already pointed out, the parable of the Prodigal Son is a part of the trilogy of parables about sinners who were once lost and were then saved by the grace of God. So we have the lost sheep and the lost coin as part of this teaching.
2. The Prodigal Son was deemed to be lost and dead in trespasses and sins -- without Christ -- for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. (Lk 15:32).
3. When he repented and came to his father in total humility and submission, he was "found" -- saved. Here "father" has the meaning of God as the "the Father" of all humanity, His creation. See Acts 17.
4. "The best robe" is the robe of righteousness, which is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Those who are justified by grace receive "the best robe". See Romans 4.
5. "A ring on his hand" speaks of the position in which believers are placed by God in Christ -- a Royal Priesthood. See 1 Peter 2.
6. "Shoes on his feet" speaks of the Gospel committed to believers, whose feet are to take the Gospel to every creature. See Romans 10.
7. The feast of rejoicing speaks of rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents.
8. The older brother who failed to rejoice represents the Pharisees who failed to rejoice when Christ mingled with publicans and sinners, and believed that they were already righteous because they were (in their minds) faithfully serving God.
The Lord was teaching the Pharisees some important lessons about the grace of God, but sadly they failed to learn those lessons.
2. The Prodigal Son was deemed to be lost and dead in trespasses and sins -- without Christ -- for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. (Lk 15:32).
3. When he repented and came to his father in total humility and submission, he was "found" -- saved. Here "father" has the meaning of God as the "the Father" of all humanity, His creation. See Acts 17.
4. "The best robe" is the robe of righteousness, which is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Those who are justified by grace receive "the best robe". See Romans 4.
5. "A ring on his hand" speaks of the position in which believers are placed by God in Christ -- a Royal Priesthood. See 1 Peter 2.
6. "Shoes on his feet" speaks of the Gospel committed to believers, whose feet are to take the Gospel to every creature. See Romans 10.
7. The feast of rejoicing speaks of rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents.
8. The older brother who failed to rejoice represents the Pharisees who failed to rejoice when Christ mingled with publicans and sinners, and believed that they were already righteous because they were (in their minds) faithfully serving God.
The Lord was teaching the Pharisees some important lessons about the grace of God, but sadly they failed to learn those lessons.
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The parables were directed to the pharisees and scribes who murmured because Jesus received publicans and sinners and ate with them (Luke 15:2-3).
I do not believe the pharisees and scribes needed any instruction concerning the need for sinners to repent.
Just as the father in the parable chides his son and tells him he should be glad that his brother was lost and is now found, the pharisees and scribes should have been glad that publicans and sinners were flocking to the Lord Jesus Christ in order to learn from Him.
Do publicans and sinners need to repent? Yes.
And pharisees and scribes should not harbor bitterness in their hearts when the sinner repents.
I have always thought of the parable in Luke 15:11-32 as "the parable of the forgiving father", Both sons exhibited behavior in which repentance was needed. jmho ...
I do not believe the pharisees and scribes needed any instruction concerning the need for sinners to repent.
Just as the father in the parable chides his son and tells him he should be glad that his brother was lost and is now found, the pharisees and scribes should have been glad that publicans and sinners were flocking to the Lord Jesus Christ in order to learn from Him.
Do publicans and sinners need to repent? Yes.
And pharisees and scribes should not harbor bitterness in their hearts when the sinner repents.
I have always thought of the parable in Luke 15:11-32 as "the parable of the forgiving father", Both sons exhibited behavior in which repentance was needed. jmho ...
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L
IMO I think this is relevant to the prod story.
Jeremiah 3:14
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
the son wanted to see the world and spent his fortune on gambling, partying what ever etc.
The chastisement was the famine, the tickling in the farmers ear gave the son a job in the swine fields to sustain him indeed he wasn't eating steak and eggs though slop but nonetheless it kept him alive until the son realized that he was better off back home then in the fields eating slop with the swine.
Jeremiah 3:14
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
the son wanted to see the world and spent his fortune on gambling, partying what ever etc.
The chastisement was the famine, the tickling in the farmers ear gave the son a job in the swine fields to sustain him indeed he wasn't eating steak and eggs though slop but nonetheless it kept him alive until the son realized that he was better off back home then in the fields eating slop with the swine.
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You use the term "always", but the parable mentions the prodigal son having returned home once and being received by The Father only one time. Had the prodigal son decided to leave home again after having earned some money by working at his father's house for a few years, and then returned again, would the father receive him with open arms once more? And if the situation had repeated itself oncce every few years, would the father keep receiving him back?
Hmm, well I guess that is a point worth looking in to...
Well Im sure one can find any verse to fit their doctrine through viewing it in a certian manner, but there a few come to mind to give what I beleive:
He will not leave of forsake us:
Deuteronomy 31:5-6,5 “And יהוה shall give them over to you, and you shall do to them according to all the command which I have commanded you."6 “Be strong and courageous, do not fear nor be afraid of them. For it is יהוה your Elohim who is going with you. He does not fail you nor forsake you.”"
However we can leave and forsake Him by disobedience or dibelief and thus cause seperation:
Isaiah 59:1-2,1 Look, the hand of יהוה has not become too short to save, nor His ear too heavy to hear."2 But your crookednesses have separated you from your Elohim. And your sins have hidden His face from you, from hearing."
However as the prodigal son those seperated can return to Him:
Zechariah 1:3-4,3 “And you shall say to them, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts, “Turn back to Me,” declares יהוה of hosts, “and I shall turn back to you,” declares יהוה of hosts."4 “Do not be like your fathers, to whom the former prophets proclaimed, saying, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts, “Turn back now from your evil ways and your evil deeds.” ’ But they did not obey or give heed to Me,” declares יהוה."
and Israyl is a good example as they were very disobedient and were brought into captivity a number of times, many were killed, enslaved, died in foregin lands, etc. some held fast to or turned back to Yah...
Yet this is a nation not an indivigual, but I think to some degree this lesson stiull applies..
This comes to mind as a teaching concernning this:
Hebrews 3:16-19, “For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
Hebrews 4:2, “For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed.”
There is a point of no return:
Hebrews 6:4-6,4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Set-apart Spirit,"5 and have tasted the good Word of Elohim and the powers of the age to come,"6 and fall away, to renew them again to repentance – having impaled for themselves the Son of Elohim again, and put Him to open shame."
WIith all this considered I think we dont really know when too far is too far, as people can claim whatever they want it;s the judges decision...
Luke 13:28, "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of Yah, but yourselves being thrown out.”
I say we should seek Him while we are able as to not push it...
Psalms 95:1-11,1 Come, let us sing to יהוה! Let us raise a shout to the Rock of our deliverance."2 Let us come before His face with thanksgiving; Let us raise a shout to Him in song."3 For יהוה is a great Ěl, And a great Sovereign above all mighty ones."4 In whose hand are the depths of the earth; The mountain peaks are His also."5 His is the sea, for He made it; And His hands formed the dry land."6 Come, let us bow down and bend low, Let us kneel before יהוה our Maker."7 For He is our Elohim, And we are the people of His pasture, And the sheep of His hand. Today, if you would hear His voice:"8 “Do not harden your hearts as in Meriḇah, And as in the day of Massah in the wilderness,"9 “When your fathers tried Me, Have proved Me, though they saw My work."10 “For forty years I was grieved with that generation, And said, ‘They are a people who go astray in their hearts, And they do not know My ways.’"11 “As I swore in My wrath, ‘If they enter into My rest...’ ”"
Well Im sure one can find any verse to fit their doctrine through viewing it in a certian manner, but there a few come to mind to give what I beleive:
He will not leave of forsake us:
Deuteronomy 31:5-6,5 “And יהוה shall give them over to you, and you shall do to them according to all the command which I have commanded you."6 “Be strong and courageous, do not fear nor be afraid of them. For it is יהוה your Elohim who is going with you. He does not fail you nor forsake you.”"
However we can leave and forsake Him by disobedience or dibelief and thus cause seperation:
Isaiah 59:1-2,1 Look, the hand of יהוה has not become too short to save, nor His ear too heavy to hear."2 But your crookednesses have separated you from your Elohim. And your sins have hidden His face from you, from hearing."
However as the prodigal son those seperated can return to Him:
Zechariah 1:3-4,3 “And you shall say to them, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts, “Turn back to Me,” declares יהוה of hosts, “and I shall turn back to you,” declares יהוה of hosts."4 “Do not be like your fathers, to whom the former prophets proclaimed, saying, ‘Thus said יהוה of hosts, “Turn back now from your evil ways and your evil deeds.” ’ But they did not obey or give heed to Me,” declares יהוה."
and Israyl is a good example as they were very disobedient and were brought into captivity a number of times, many were killed, enslaved, died in foregin lands, etc. some held fast to or turned back to Yah...
Yet this is a nation not an indivigual, but I think to some degree this lesson stiull applies..
This comes to mind as a teaching concernning this:
Hebrews 3:16-19, “For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
Hebrews 4:2, “For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed.”
There is a point of no return:
Hebrews 6:4-6,4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Set-apart Spirit,"5 and have tasted the good Word of Elohim and the powers of the age to come,"6 and fall away, to renew them again to repentance – having impaled for themselves the Son of Elohim again, and put Him to open shame."
WIith all this considered I think we dont really know when too far is too far, as people can claim whatever they want it;s the judges decision...
Luke 13:28, "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of Yah, but yourselves being thrown out.”
I say we should seek Him while we are able as to not push it...
Psalms 95:1-11,1 Come, let us sing to יהוה! Let us raise a shout to the Rock of our deliverance."2 Let us come before His face with thanksgiving; Let us raise a shout to Him in song."3 For יהוה is a great Ěl, And a great Sovereign above all mighty ones."4 In whose hand are the depths of the earth; The mountain peaks are His also."5 His is the sea, for He made it; And His hands formed the dry land."6 Come, let us bow down and bend low, Let us kneel before יהוה our Maker."7 For He is our Elohim, And we are the people of His pasture, And the sheep of His hand. Today, if you would hear His voice:"8 “Do not harden your hearts as in Meriḇah, And as in the day of Massah in the wilderness,"9 “When your fathers tried Me, Have proved Me, though they saw My work."10 “For forty years I was grieved with that generation, And said, ‘They are a people who go astray in their hearts, And they do not know My ways.’"11 “As I swore in My wrath, ‘If they enter into My rest...’ ”"