The real Sabbath day

[unobtrusive]

You are not distinguishing between the weekly Sabbath and the feasts.

This is the weekly Sabbath that the Israelites were required to keep:

Ex 20:
8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

The seven feasts were other Sabbaths, and they fell on different days. The weekly Sabbath was always on the seventh day of the week (Saturday to us).

While Christians can certainly observe the Sabbaths if they choose, it is not required.

Col 2:
16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Rom 14:
5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6) He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Does the Bible distinguish a difference between the Feast's Sabbath’s and the origin of a weekly Sabbath? If so, would you be so kind as to quote the scripture of distinguished? I'm looking for a certain day from the beginning of its origin. Thanks.

 

[MarcR]

I agree with your analogy. So I ask, what day, according to our understanding of today, is that actual Biblical Sabbath? Is it according to the feasts, or is it according to Exodus chapter 16 when manna first fell from heaven? If it's the manna thing, what day of the week was actually the day that we are restricted from gathering it?

Sabbath begins when 3 stars are clearly visible after twilight on what we call Friday and runs to the same time on Saturday.

On cloudy days the times are astronomically calculated and published.

 

[posthuman]

Does the Bible distinguish a difference between the Feast's Sabbath’s and the origin of a weekly Sabbath? If so, would you be so kind as to quote the scripture of distinguished? I'm looking for a certain day from the beginning of its origin. Thanks.

doesn't Exodus 16 institute the 7-day sabbath with the giving of manna, starting the seven from the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Jewish month?
and aren't the months calculated according to the new moon, according to their calendar?

it's the first record in scripture of the observance of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day ever being commanded, and the text seems to indicate clearly that the Israelites weren't accustomed to observing this day previous to the giving of the manna.
whether this is because of their lives as slaves in Egypt ((who also kept a 30-day lunar month)) where there may certainly be doubt concerning having been given reprieve from their labors every 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day, or because their was simply never any command prior to the manna & the quail is a matter of conjecture: the people who hold observance of this day in the highest esteem of course harken back to the seven of creation, as Exodus 20 certainly does, and insert the assumption that from the beginning it is commanded, but the fact remains that scripture records no such command until the manna is given, and the instruction given there seems to tacitly assume that the command being given to observe the day is 'new' to their ears.

 

[MarcR]

I agree with your analogy. So I ask, what day, according to our understanding of today, is that actual Biblical Sabbath? Is it according to the feasts, or is it according to Exodus chapter 16 when manna first fell from heaven? If it's the manna thing, what day of the week was actually the day that we are restricted from gathering it?

Sabbath begins when 3 stars are clearly visible after twilight on what we call Friday and runs to the same time on Saturday.

On cloudy days the times are astronomically calculated and published.

There are other rabbinic traditions so some scholars might disagree with me. I believe that my method is most prevalent.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I agree with your analogy. So I ask, what day, according to our understanding of today, is that actual Biblical Sabbath? Is it according to the feasts, or is it according to Exodus chapter 16 when manna first fell from heaven? If it's the manna thing, what day of the week was actually the day that we are restricted from gathering it?

Since the Jews have been observing Saturdays as sabbath days for a very long time, why are you making this an issue? Or do you want another bone of contention?

 

[tourist]

The real Sabbath day? That would be Saturday, right? The scripture is referring to the 7th day and this day is called Saturday. It don't matter at all which calendar you chose to use. You could ask yourself the same question about Sunday. Is this really the first day of the week, or exactly day of the week it is. The answer is that it's the first day of the week. You are correct in stating that the 4th commandment has not been made void. All 10 commandments are still valid.

 

[Hizikyah]

The 7th day Sabbath starts at the end of the 6th day. Compared the the gregorian calendar that would be "Friday" at sundown. Since Yahshua/Jesus was on the earth the 7 day cycle has not changed. Thus we know what day thw Sabbath is on.

Also the true meaning of the Sabbath is something that is still future, it represents Yah's rest, none have yet entered into that rest YET, any that claim to have made their own definion of what the rest is He offers:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], for which you also suffer, since [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"[/FONT]

 

[unobtrusive]

doesn't Exodus 16 institute the 7-day sabbath with the giving of manna, starting the seven from the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Jewish month?
and aren't the months calculated according to the new moon, according to their calendar?

it's the first record in scripture of the observance of the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day ever being commanded, and the text seems to indicate clearly that the Israelites weren't accustomed to observing this day previous to the giving of the manna.
whether this is because of their lives as slaves in Egypt ((who also kept a 30-day lunar month)) where there may certainly be doubt concerning having been given reprieve from their labors every 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day, or because their was simply never any command prior to the manna & the quail is a matter of conjecture: the people who hold observance of this day in the highest esteem of course harken back to the seven of creation, as Exodus 20 certainly does, and insert the assumption that from the beginning it is commanded, but the fact remains that scripture records no such command until the manna is given, and the instruction given there seems to tacitly assume that the command being given to observe the day is 'new' to their ears.

Then wasn't the first Sabbath day (according to scripture) the 22nd of the 2nd month (new moon)? Is that where we should begin to observe the Sabbath day?

 

[Hizikyah]

Then wasn't the first Sabbath day (according to scripture) the 22nd of the 2nd month (new moon)? Is that where we should begin to observe the Sabbath day?

Those are the Feast days, also called High Sabbaths or Moadim.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 74:4, “Your adversaries have roared In the midst of Your appointments; They have set up their own signs as signs.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:14, "And the Mighty One said, “Let lights come to be in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 104:19, "You appointed the moon for setting the appointed times. The sun knows its going down."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Daniel 7:25, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws..."[/FONT]

 

[Waggles]

For a Spirit-filled Christian there is no specific obligation to observe a distinct day as the Sabbath.
We are free from being under the regulations of the Mosaic Law, and come under the law of liberty.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Colossians 2:

4 Who art thou that judges another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls.
Yea, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man
be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord
he does not regard it. ... ...
Romans 14:

Besides the purpose of the Sabbath - time of from work and toil and a day of worship - is now given
through the indwelling Holy Spirit which is the refreshing (and our rest).

 

[Waggles]

The adoption of Sundays by the Christian church is a matter of doctrine and history.

1: our Lord and God rose from death and the tomb on Sunday by first century accounts
and was first seen on a Sunday by his disciples ...
Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9, John 20:1, John 20:26,

2: to separate the new faith from the problem of the Jews with their insistence on observing
the Law of Moses and Saturday being their sabbath.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,
Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,
even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him,
that there be no gatherings when I come.
1Corinthians 16:

For Christians there is no equivalency to the Saturday Sabbath of the Jews. We are not under restrictive
regulations concerning how much work we can do, or what we can do, or how far we can walk or drive.
If a Sunday or a Wednesday night are the times of our worship meetings then that is all they are.

While I specifically put aside Sunday for attending our communion meetings I also go shopping
or to the cinemas and spend my money in a heathen economy.

 

[Nehemiah6]

For a Spirit-filled Christian there is no specific obligation to observe a distinct day as the Sabbath.
We are free from being under the regulations of the Mosaic Law, and come under the law of liberty.

Correct. Therefore all this wrangling about which is the correct day of the week for a sabbath day is quite unnecessary.

 

[garee]

Sabbath begins when 3 stars are clearly visible after twilight on what we call Friday and runs to the same time on Saturday.

On cloudy days the times are astronomically calculated and published.

There are other rabbinic traditions so some scholars might disagree with me. I believe that my method is most prevalent.

I have a question. I have heard because of an oral tradition of the Jewish fathers three Kosher meals could have been eaten on a Sabbath when Christ was here.

Do the Jews have that same law today in respect to the keeping of the Sabbath?

 

[Hizikyah]

The adoption of Sundays by the Christian church is a matter of doctrine and history.

1: our Lord and God rose from death and the tomb on Sunday by first century accounts
and was first seen on a Sunday by his disciples ...
Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9, John 20:1, John 20:26,

2: to separate the new faith from the problem of the Jews with their insistence on observing
the Law of Moses and Saturday being their sabbath.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,
Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia,
even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him,
that there be no gatherings when I come.
1Corinthians 16:

For Christians there is no equivalency to the Saturday Sabbath of the Jews. We are not under restrictive
regulations concerning how much work we can do, or what we can do, or how far we can walk or drive.
If a Sunday or a Wednesday night are the times of our worship meetings then that is all they are.

While I specifically put aside Sunday for attending our communion meetings I also go shopping
or to the cinemas and spend my money in a heathen economy.

The adoption of Sundays by the Christian church is a matter of doctrine and history.

1: our Lord and God rose from death and the tomb on Sunday by first century accounts
and was first seen on a Sunday by his disciples ...
Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9, John 20:1, John 20:26,

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/ Sunday[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb”

2: to separate the new faith from the problem of the Jews with their insistence on observing
the Law of Moses and Saturday being

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] their sabbath. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]speak, saying, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif], “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], to serve Him, and to love the Name of [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth.

He has remembered His covenant forever,

the Law He commanded for a thousand generations;

Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham,

and vowed by His oath to Isaac.

He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and

to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."[/FONT]

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread,
Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 20:7, “On the first day (#G1520 heis) of the week (#G4521 sabbaton), when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]first day” is word #G1520 - heis: one, Original Word: εἷς, μία, ἕν, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: heis, Phonetic Spelling: (hice), Short Definition: one, Definition: one.[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]week” is word #G4521 sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week), Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: sabbaton, Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on), Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week, Definition: the Sabbath, a week.[/FONT]

 

[Waggles]

Why have communion worship on a Sunday - the first day of the week?

Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday and buried just before the sunset of the
same day.
Three days in the tomb is as follows:
Wed sunset to Thursday sunset
Thursday sunset to Friday sunset
Friday sunset to Saturday sunset
hence Sunday is from Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset

And our risen Lord first appeared to the women that came to the tomb with
spices to anoint the embalmed body of Jesus.
2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb
when the sun had risen.
9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary
Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.
Mark 16: (NJKV)

But as I posted before there is no Sabbath Day for Christians in the like manner
as is applicable to the Jews.
Although we should make the effort to give the day over to participating in worship
and communion, along with fellowship; rather than spending the whole day at the
cricket or footy or other worldly alternatives.

 

[posthuman]

Then wasn't the first Sabbath day (according to scripture) the 22nd of the 2nd month (new moon)? Is that where we should begin to observe the Sabbath day?

that's what i'm thinking -- though maybe i'm wrong, i don't see why it wouldn't be. then you have 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day sabbath connected to the Hebrew calendar, which is connected to the appearance of the new moon.
i'm not well versed in it, but i gather there is some controversy among Jews as to whether the calendar should be set by the moon or not at all, and as i understand it, over the course of history, they altered the lengths of months in order to avoid having too many sabbaths in a row .. ? don't take my word for it tho; i'm just going by a somewhat hazy memory.

anyway if the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day sabbath should be reckoned according to the moon in this way, then for sure it's not going to line up with the Gregorian calendar.

Those are the Feast days, also called High Sabbaths or Moadim.

Exodus 16 is instituting the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day sabbath, counting by days of manna collection, reckoned with the Hebrew calendar by the beginning of the chapter which sets the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] day of the second month as the first day ((to count to seven from)), with quail appearing all over the camp at night and the first appearance of manna at dawn. this chapter isn't about feast days; it's before the Sinai covenant was given.

 

[posthuman]

Correct. Therefore all this wrangling about which is the correct day of the week for a sabbath day is quite unnecessary.

'each should be fully convinced in his own mind'
​

i've found a few hundred pages of argument that we are under the the threat of judgement and condemnation by the Law to observe a day wholly unpersuasive. i feel like it's equally useless to try to dissuade anyone who wishes to esteem a day from seeking out the day to esteem. whoever esteems a particular day, does so to the Lord, just as whoever esteems each day alike does so to the Lord, right?

 

[stillness]

"Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the Law but under Grace." The Law exposed our covetous hearts and killed us. If you don't think you have died already, then the Law may be for you, good lick with that.

 

[beta]

'each should be fully convinced in his own mind'
​

i've found a few hundred pages of argument that we are under the the threat of judgement and condemnation by the Law to observe a day wholly unpersuasive. i feel like it's equally useless to try to dissuade anyone who wishes to esteem a day from seeking out the day to esteem. whoever esteems a particular day, does so to the Lord, just as whoever esteems each day alike does so to the Lord, right?

So you are saying what YOU or any other PERSON esteem to be right is of more importance than what GOD esteems to be right ?
This is the kind of human reasoning and understanding people/christians have displayed up until now being ignorant and rebellious as disobedient children ! How long are they going to continue as such ? We are supposed to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior....
die to self and learn to esteem GOD !!!
HE has already set a Holy Day....He is not asking us !
What your misunderstanding shows God is that people themselves want to be above HIM by deciding for themselves...a poor and negative attitude that will keep you out of the Kingdom...obviously !

 

[posthuman]

So you are saying what YOU or any other PERSON esteem to be right is of more importance than what GOD esteems to be right ?

take it up with Paul, please.

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
​

or better, take it up with the Holy Spirit that inspired this saying.