The Rejection of Obedience

[mailmandan]

Look Dan, ill know what you mean if you answer this question but will you?

Do you believe what Jesus said that to enter into life one has to Keep the Ten Commandments or not? just answer this one and I will know what you believe.

Keep in mind the man is Jewish, under the Law, and asks Jesus, "what good thing must I do to receive eternal life?" Jesus reframes the question by pointing out that only God is good, challenging the man’s self-assessment by saying if you want to enter life, keep the commandments. The rich young man confidently and self-righteously declares that he has kept the commandments from his youth up, yet Jesus exposes his heart. Jesus' question was meant to bring conviction and not promote self-righteousness.

Are you suggesting that Jesus demands sinless, perfect obedience to the ten commandments as the basis or means by which we all receive eternal life (Romans 3:23; 6:23) instead of believing in Him (John 3:15,16,18) as the basis or means by which we receive eternal life? By answering this question, I will know what you believe.

 

[GWH]

Look Dan, ill know what you mean if you answer this question but will you?

Do you believe what Jesus said that to enter into life one has to Keep the Ten Commandments or not? just answer this one and I will know what you believe.

Jesus did NOT say to "keep the Ten Commandments".
Jesus said "A new command I give you: love..." (John 13:34).

 

[Roger316]

what is the difference Mem? a change of the contents of the Covenant or rather disobedience VS. obedience through the Holy Spirit

Let me put a finer point on it. Christians who read themselves directly into Jeremiah 31 often fail to give full weight to the fact that Jeremiah is speaking about the Mosaic Law as it existed at the time he wrote. The “Law” that will be written on the heart is not a vague moral ideal or a New‑Covenant ethic shaped around the golden rule; it is the entire Mosaic Torah, including its sacrificial system, priestly structure, and covenantal obligations. The assumption many Christians make is that because Jeremiah is describing the New Covenant, he must also be describing a new kind of “Law”—a simplified, internalized ethic of love. But Jeremiah’s point is not that the Law will be replaced; it is that the same Law will be internalized, obeyed from the heart rather than imposed externally. The mistake comes from importing New‑Covenant categories into an Old‑Covenant prophecy without first honoring the covenantal context in which Jeremiah spoke.

 

[Roger316]

you have it all wrong reverting to the Mosaic Law that was added later, the Covenant God declares IS the Ten Commandments, as written at lease 4 times in the O.T.

Where? let's talk about the passages. And why do you think I got it wrong?

You also have it all wrong pitting Jews versus gentiles, Jesus was sent as a light to the gentiles also , all peoples, it is written. it is a grave error to say otherwise.

Let me put a finer point on it. When we discover a truth that makes us uncomfortable, good exegesis doesn’t suddenly become optional. Either Jesus was speaking to a Jew under the Mosaic covenant or He wasn’t—and He was. That historical fact must shape how we interpret His words. As responsible readers of Scripture, we are obligated to account for the covenantal identity of the person Jesus is addressing; otherwise, we risk lifting His statements out of their original context and importing meanings that were never intended.

I agree—Jesus was a light to the Gentiles as well. But we shouldn’t forget that Jesus commissioned Paul to bring that light to the Gentiles by announcing that God would forgive them if they repented and sought His mercy. Paul is explicit and unambiguous: salvation comes by faith apart from the Law, not through Torah observance or covenantal works. So while Jesus’ ministry radiated outward to the nations, the content of the gospel delivered to the Gentiles was not a continuation of Mosaic obligation but the proclamation of faith in Christ as the sole means of justification. In that sense, the “light” Jesus brings to the Gentiles is not the Law but the revelation that God saves them through faith in Christ alone.

At this point it’s worth saying something positive about the Ten Commandments. Even though our discussion has focused on covenantal obedience, the commandments themselves still matter—not because Christians are bound to the Mosaic covenant, but because they reveal and frame the moral mind of God. They express what God considers good, right, and fitting for His creatures. It would never be acceptable to worship another god, bear false witness, or dishonor parents, not because we are under Sinai, but because these commands disclose God’s own moral character. The Decalogue remains morally instructive precisely because it reflects who God is, and obedience to it aligns us with His nature rather than with a particular covenantal administration.

 

[HeIsHere]

i am sorry about my tone but there is urgency but you are right My tone was inappropriate and I apologize.

Yeah years ago on CC, I spent hours and hours with scripture to counter the "salvation is losable" crowd, but I realize now that it rarely is edifying because it really it is not about scripture.
God bless.

 

[pinebeach]

Yes, Soyeong, God wants us to be Holy, just as He is Holy. Jesus was our example. Everything Jesus did was the Father's will, and we are to do the same by following what He has given us.

If you understand the word 'holy' to mean sinless or obeying the law, you would be wrong.

The biblical meaning of the word holy means 'separate' to 'set apart'. If you reflect on OT law as it is actually written and not the
glamorized version of the 10 commandments that people think is the shiny thing they must follow, there is a difference between what we would refer to as 'moral' and the ceremonial law which deals with how to approach God.

The idea behind all of the ceremonial law, was to ensure people understood that God is not like them. He is separate; in fact one of a kind. The intent of being holy, means to not partake in the world and the world systems.

So God says, be holy because I am holy. He does not mean sinless. That is not an ideal any person on this earth can attain. We have to understand the old and new testaments and the old and new covenants as pertains to Christianity. Understand who Jesus was speaking to, when He was speaking and even why if you can.

 

[Soyeong]

You are teaching heresy, you are teaching salvation by works.

Please explain how what I said based on Titus 2:11-13 is heresy while Titus 2:11-13 is not. There is a difference between these two positions.

1.) Our salvation requires us to obey the Law of God.

2.) Our salvation requires us to obey the Law of God in order to earn it as the result.

There are many verses that support 1 while denying 2, so 1 is not heresy while 2 is heresy and my position is 1. For example, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, and in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God, so while we can't earn our salvation even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God, there is nevertheless an intrinsic connection between our gift of salvation and our gift of getting to experience being a doer of the Law of God. Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Law of God is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and becoming a doer of the Law of God in accordance with believing the Gospel and in accordance with Titus 2:11-13.

I read your message history. I hope you embrace the Gospel and get saved.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to embrace the Gospel that Jesus spent his ministry teaching and accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God.

The gift is eternal life and eternal life cannot end, otherwise it was not eternal. Jesus says the sheep will NEVER perish. So if you are a sheep you will never perish and will not follow a stranger.

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about what is intrinsically required to experience the gift of eternal life in the present, not about the way to be good enough to earn it as the result. To use an analogy, there could be a house with unlimited electricity and there could be a laptop that could remain powered for eternity for as long as it remains plugged into the outlet, but if it becomes unplugged, then it becomes something that will die. We need to remain in the vine.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, Soyeong, God wants us to be Holy, just as He is Holy. Jesus was our example. Everything Jesus did was the Father's will, and we are to do the same by following what He has given us.

Certainly, those who truly love Him will be with Him at the return of Christ. Then Jeremiah's prophecy will be completely fulfilled, just as it was intended when he said:

“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD. I will put My Law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.” (Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Jesus did begin the New Covenant, and in Mark 4 He described how the Kingdom would begin small and grow over time:

(30) Then He asked, “To what can we compare the Kingdom of God? With what parable shall we present it? (31) It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds sown upon the earth. (32) But after it is planted, it grows to be the largest of all garden plants and puts forth great branches, so that the birds of the air nest in its shade.” (33) With many such parables Jesus spoke the word to them, to the extent that they could understand. (34) He did not tell them anything without using a parable. But privately He explained everything to His own disciples. (Mark 4:30-34)

It is evident today that many believe the Law has been "fulfilled," meaning "ended," according to their own interpretation. This directly contradicts what Jesus said, that the Law will not pass away (Matthew 5:17-19). Some also stubbornly deny that Jesus said to keep the Ten Commandments in order to enter eternal life (Matthew 19:17).

It is therefore evident from the fruit being shown that many have received only a small measure of the work of the Holy Spirit, while others have received a greater measure according to God's purpose. That is why some continue to reject what Jesus plainly taught. This is also why some of us must continue teaching our fellow men and women, calling them back into the Fold while there is still time. The time is now short. Events have already been set in motion, and from this point forward the world will continue to decline until the return of Christ.

How can someone take the position that God wants His children to be holy as He is holy while also taking the position that God does not want us to follow Christ's example of waking in obedience to His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy? For example:

Leviticus 11:44-45 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”

 

[2Christ]

Keep in mind the man is Jewish, under the Law, and asks Jesus, "what good thing must I do to receive eternal life?" Jesus reframes the question by pointing out that only God is good, challenging the man’s self-assessment by saying if you want to enter life, keep the commandments. The rich young man confidently and self-righteously declares that he has kept the commandments from his youth up, yet Jesus exposes his heart. Jesus' question was meant to bring conviction and not promote self-righteousness.

Are you suggesting that Jesus demands sinless, perfect obedience to the ten commandments as the basis or means by which we all receive eternal life (Romans 3:23; 6:23) instead of believing in Him (John 3:15,16,18) as the basis or means by which we receive eternal life? By answering this question, I will know what you believe.

Dan, You are changing the subject again. My question was simple: Do you believe what Jesus said to follow the Ten Commandments??

You say Jesus only answered that way because the man was Jewish and under the Law. But this does not answer the question. Jesus never said His teachings applied only to Jewish people. In fact, the Scriptures show that the Messiah was sent as a Light for all people, including the Gentiles.

The prophet Isaiah spoke of the Messiah:

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness from the prison-house. (Isaiah 42:6-7 ASV)

Yea, he saith, It is too light a thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6 ASV)

This prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus:

For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples; A light for revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of thy people Israel. (Luke 2:30-32 ASV)

Jesus Himself declared:

Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12 ASV)

When Jesus first sent the twelve disciples during His earthly ministry, their mission began with Israel, because the promises were first revealed to them.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6 ASV)

But after His resurrection, Jesus expanded the mission to every nation and commanded His disciples to teach everything He had commanded.

Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. (Matthew 28:19-20 ASV)

Now regarding the rich young ruler, Jesus gave a direct answer to his question:

And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-17 ASV)

Jesus did not say, "This only applies to Jews." He answered the question that was asked. The problem with the man was not that Jesus' commandment was wrong, but that the man's heart was not fully surrendered to God. His riches had become more important than following Christ.

You also ask whether Jesus demands sinless perfection. No, Jesus never taught that. I never taught that, Jesus taught repentance, faith, and obedience. He called people to follow Him and do the will of the Father.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21 ASV)

Jesus also said:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15 ASV)

The issue is not whether a person can boast of perfect obedience. The issue is whether we believe Jesus enough to follow what He taught.

So Dan, the question remains: Do you accept Jesus' own answer, "If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments," or do you believe His words were only for one Jewish man and not for the nations He later commanded His disciples to teach?

 

[2Christ]

How can someone take the position that God wants His children to be holy as He is holy while also taking the position that God does not want us to follow Christ's example of waking in obedience to His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy? For example:

Leviticus 11:44-45 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”

why this perticular law may I ask?

 

[2Christ]

If you understand the word 'holy' to mean sinless or obeying the law, you would be wrong.

The biblical meaning of the word holy means 'separate' to 'set apart'. If you reflect on OT law as it is actually written and not the
glamorized version of the 10 commandments that people think is the shiny thing they must follow, there is a difference between what we would refer to as 'moral' and the ceremonial law which deals with how to approach God.

The idea behind all of the ceremonial law, was to ensure people understood that God is not like them. He is separate; in fact one of a kind. The intent of being holy, means to not partake in the world and the world systems.

So God says, be holy because I am holy. He does not mean sinless. That is not an ideal any person on this earth can attain. We have to understand the old and new testaments and the old and new covenants as pertains to Christianity. Understand who Jesus was speaking to, when He was speaking and even why if you can.

Holiness means to reflect God's character and a change or heart with the help of the Holy Spirit

 

[Soyeong]

God differentiate the Torah He's speaking about in Jer 31:33 from the one He refers to in Jer 31:32. But you treat them as one and the same, which brings into question your skill in rightly dividing the word of truth. The rich young ruler claimed that He kept the law from his youth and Jesus said that He had sell all he had and give it to the poor, where's that in the law that you only know by reading the "Torah"?

The New Covenant not being like the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that they have nothing in common, but rather it just means that they are the stated differences. For example, the greatest two commandments are part of both covenants and the reason why the commandments to love God and our neighbor are the greatest two commandments is that they are inclusive of all of the other commandments. The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so following the Torah is not a difference, but God internalizing it putting it in our minds and writing it on our hearts is a difference.

God's character traits are eternal, so everything that God's covenants teach us about how to know God through embodying His character traits is eternally and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160), and if the way to embody God's righteousness were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal.

New covenants do not nullify the promises of covenants that have already been ratified, so God's covenants are eternally and cumulatively valid. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be made obsolete by the New Covenant is if it is cumulative with it. One thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality, so a computer makes a typewrite obsolete but does not make a plow obsolete, which means that if the New Covenant involved doing something different that was not cumulative with the Mosaic Covenant, then it could not make it obsolete. So the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is cumulatively based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). The position that the New Covenant involves following a different set of laws is the position that it is made with a different God with a different set of character traits and a different set of laws for how to embody those character traits, but rather the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same eternal character traits and the same eternally and cumulatively valid instructions for how to embody His character traits.

 

[Roger316]

Please explain how what I said based on Titus 2:11-13 is heresy while Titus 2:11-13 is not. There is a difference between these two positions.

1.) Our salvation requires us to obey the Law of God.

2.) Our salvation requires us to obey the Law of God in order to earn it as the result.

There are many verses that support 1 while denying 2, so 1 is not heresy while 2 is heresy and my position is 1. For example, in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, and in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God, so while we can't earn our salvation even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God, there is nevertheless an intrinsic connection between our gift of salvation and our gift of getting to experience being a doer of the Law of God. Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Law of God is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and becoming a doer of the Law of God in accordance with believing the Gospel and in accordance with Titus 2:11-13.


In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to embrace the Gospel that Jesus spent his ministry teaching and accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God.


In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about what is intrinsically required to experience the gift of eternal life in the present, not about the way to be good enough to earn it as the result. To use an analogy, there could be a house with unlimited electricity and there could be a laptop that could remain powered for eternity for as long as it remains plugged into the outlet, but if it becomes unplugged, then it becomes something that will die. We need to remain in the vine.

Did you mean for your first two verse references to be the same? Maybe that is your point? I need another cup of coffee.

 

[Soyeong]

why this perticular law may I ask?

That particular law is the one that is most strongly connected with the command to be holy as He is holy by coming immediately before and after it. It is also a command that many people argue those under the New Covenant are not required to obey in spite of 1 Peter 1:16 instruct to be holy as God is holy and many other verses in the NT that are call both Jews and Gentiles to be holy. If our goal is to know God through embodying His character traits, then the only way that we should cease to follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be if God were to cease to be holy, which is true regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.

 

[pinebeach]

Holiness means to reflect God's character and a change or heart with the help of the Holy Spirit

Do you think I made up what I posted? What I posted is the actual biblical meaning as any person who understands original biblical languages will tell you. Now I don't, but anyone who does, will say what I posted.

See, that is the problem with those who REFUSE, just REFUSE to actually accept what is true if does not agree with what they already think or have been taught.

BTW, you will reflect God's character if you set yourself apart as the word holy means. It's a decision. smh

You ask questions and when you are answered, you come back with reasons why you don't like the answer.

 

[Roger316]

The New Covenant not being like the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that they have nothing in common, but rather it just means that they are the stated differences. For example, the greatest two commandments are part of both covenants and the reason why the commandments to love God and our neighbor are the greatest two commandments is that they are inclusive of all of the other commandments. The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so following the Torah is not a difference, but God internalizing it putting it in our minds and writing it on our hearts is a difference.

God's character traits are eternal, so everything that God's covenants teach us about how to know God through embodying His character traits is eternally and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160), and if the way to embody God's righteousness were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal.

New covenants do not nullify the promises of covenants that have already been ratified, so God's covenants are eternally and cumulatively valid. The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:16, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be made obsolete by the New Covenant is if it is cumulative with it. One thing can only make another thing obsolete to the extent that it has cumulative functionality, so a computer makes a typewrite obsolete but does not make a plow obsolete, which means that if the New Covenant involved doing something different that was not cumulative with the Mosaic Covenant, then it could not make it obsolete. So the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is cumulatively based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). The position that the New Covenant involves following a different set of laws is the position that it is made with a different God with a different set of character traits and a different set of laws for how to embody those character traits, but rather the New Covenant is made with the same God with the same eternal character traits and the same eternally and cumulatively valid instructions for how to embody His character traits.

Jeremiah 31:31–34 is hard for people to grasp because it challenges a widely held assumption that the passage addresses only one issue. In reality, Jeremiah is dealing with two distinct but related promises: the transformation of the Jewish heart and the forgiveness of sins. When I look at the New Testament—both the gospels and the epistles—it becomes obvious that the New Covenant Christ inaugurates is consistently defined as the forgiveness of sins through His cross, and that forgiveness is offered to both Jews and Greeks alike. But very little is said about the first aspect of Jeremiah’s prophecy: the inner transformation of the Jewish people. That part of the promise is still future and still tied to Israel’s covenant identity. So when people collapse Jeremiah 31 into a single theme, they unintentionally blur the distinction between what Christ has already accomplished for all nations and what God has promised specifically for Israel’s internal renewal.

 

[Soyeong]

Did you mean for your first two verse references to be the same? Maybe that is your point? I need another cup of coffee.

Indeed, sorry for not being clear. If someone disagrees with what I said based on a verse without disagreeing with the verse, then they should explain why they think that I have misunderstood it.

 

[pinebeach]

Dan, You are changing the subject again. My question was simple: Do you believe what Jesus said to follow the Ten Commandments??

You say Jesus only answered that way because the man was Jewish and under the Law. But this does not answer the question. Jesus never said His teachings applied only to Jewish people. In fact, the Scriptures show that the Messiah was sent as a Light for all people, including the Gentiles.

The prophet Isaiah spoke of the Messiah:

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness from the prison-house. (Isaiah 42:6-7 ASV)

Yea, he saith, It is too light a thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. (Isaiah 49:6 ASV)

This prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus:

For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples; A light for revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of thy people Israel. (Luke 2:30-32 ASV)

Jesus Himself declared:

Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12 ASV)

When Jesus first sent the twelve disciples during His earthly ministry, their mission began with Israel, because the promises were first revealed to them.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:5-6 ASV)

But after His resurrection, Jesus expanded the mission to every nation and commanded His disciples to teach everything He had commanded.

Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. (Matthew 28:19-20 ASV)

Now regarding the rich young ruler, Jesus gave a direct answer to his question:

And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-17 ASV)

Jesus did not say, "This only applies to Jews." He answered the question that was asked. The problem with the man was not that Jesus' commandment was wrong, but that the man's heart was not fully surrendered to God. His riches had become more important than following Christ.

You also ask whether Jesus demands sinless perfection. No, Jesus never taught that. I never taught that, Jesus taught repentance, faith, and obedience. He called people to follow Him and do the will of the Father.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21 ASV)

Jesus also said:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15 ASV)

The issue is not whether a person can boast of perfect obedience. The issue is whether we believe Jesus enough to follow what He taught.

So Dan, the question remains: Do you accept Jesus' own answer, "If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments," or do you believe His words were only for one Jewish man and not for the nations He later commanded His disciples to teach?

Your problem at comprehension lies in the fact you conflate old and new testaments and apply OT prophecy to yourself in a personal manner.

Jesus did not say, "This only applies to Jews."

Are you trying to be funny? Who else did God give the commandments to? The Assyrians? Maybe the Romans?

If you cannot understand or better yet, refuse to acknowledge, that the Gentiles, us, were not the recipients of the law nor was Jesus speaking to us...He was speaking to the people God gave the law to, then you will be forever asking the same questions and never coming to a conclusion. God creates order....not the mishmash of confusion and misunderstanding those who think we should follow the commandments live in. Follow Jesus. You will stop sinning anyway. You willl never achieve perfection but you don't have to. Jesus died in our place so that we can come before the Father and know He hears us without any kind of
works on our part. Works don't save. Only Jesus saves.

Now tell me that I think that means I can sin. Paul was the one chosen to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.....you, me and Aunt Hidegard. Read Paul and then decide that if we think we can sin at will. The entire premise of this op is ridiculous and shows the usual problem of personal interpretation mixed with limited experience and the maddening application of broad brushing the rest of the world.

You're welcome.

 

[Roger316]

That particular law is the one that is most strongly connected with the command to be holy as He is holy by coming immediately before and after it. It is also a command that many people argue those under the New Covenant are not required to obey in spite of 1 Peter 1:16 instruct to be holy as God is holy and many other verses in the NT that are call both Jews and Gentiles to be holy. If our goal is to know God through embodying His character traits, then the only way that we should cease to follow God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy would be if God were to cease to be holy, which is true regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any.

I hear what you’re saying, but I think we need to be careful not to collapse two different categories into one. Yes, the command to “be holy as He is holy” surrounds that particular law in Leviticus, and yes, the New Testament calls both Jews and Gentiles to holiness. But holiness in Scripture is not defined by every instruction God gave Israel under the Mosaic covenant. Holiness is fundamentally about embodying God’s character, not about reproducing Israel’s covenantal code. Under the New Covenant, I’m not arguing that God has ceased to be holy or that His moral vision has changed. What I’m saying is that the way God expresses His holiness through His people differs depending on the covenant they are under. Gentiles are not commanded to keep Israel’s distinct covenantal markers, but they are commanded to embody God’s character—truthfulness, purity, justice, mercy, faithfulness. So the question isn’t, “Has God stopped being holy?” Of course not. The question is, “Which instructions express God’s holiness for those who are not under the Mosaic covenant?” And the New Testament consistently grounds holiness for Gentiles in the character of God revealed in Christ, not in the specific stipulations of Israel’s covenant code.

It might also help to remember that Peter isn’t addressing all Christians in his letter; he’s writing specifically to Jewish believers living abroad. His call to “be holy as He is holy” is directed to people who already understood holiness through the lens of Israel’s covenant identity. So when Peter uses that language, he’s not laying the Mosaic code on Gentile believers—he’s exhorting Jewish Christians to embody God’s character in their scattered communities. That context matters, because it shows that Peter’s appeal to holiness is rooted in Israel’s story, not in a universal requirement to keep every command tied to Israel’s covenant markers.

 

[pinebeach]

But holiness in Scripture is not defined by every instruction God gave Israel under the Mosaic covenant. Holiness is fundamentally about embodying God’s character, not about reproducing Israel’s covenantal code.

How are you going to do that? How are you going to become 'godlike', that is what you are actually saying whether you know it or not.

The ceremonial law was all about understanding the fact that God is holy....meaning separate and not like the human beings He gave the law to.

So, be like God and separate yourself to Him. The line between actually understanding this and confusing what holy is, is a thin one but the difference is vast and the reason we continue to have these threads where people argue over being holy by being 'good' or thinking Jesus told everyone to obey the commandments when He was not speaking to everyone.

Things changed after the resurrection but people seem to want to play a part in their own salvation. You cannot.