The resurrection must precedes the rapture

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Lovette

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Jan 20, 2026
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Although this is a controversial topic, I have to lift it off my chest. Most objections against the rapture doctrine are what the term "rapture" means, whether it exists in the bible, whether it was newly invented, whether it creates a "third" coming of Christ, but the real fallacy, as I've noticed, lies within its timing in the rapture narrative, which is predominantly taught as pre-trib. Rapture doctrine's one and only valid prooftext is 1 Thess. 4:17 where the term "caught up" is found, and in the previous verse is hope of resurrection.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

Now here is the kicker. Upon close examination, 4:16 explicitly states that the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Should we take it literally, as the resurrection must precede the rapture? If so, then the pre-trib timing is busted, because the resurrection takes place AFTER the return of Christ in Rev. 20:4-5.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)

And when does Christ return? "Immediately AFTER the tribulation".

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matt. 24:29-30)

Here the dispensationalists will argue that the rapture is a separate event, if that's the case, it would inevitably and necessarily lead to the conclusion that there will be a separate resurrection also, since the two events are a package deal. So, is it possible to have such a preliminary resurrection? Unfortunately, the answer's NO, because the resurrection in Rev. 20:4-5 is the FIRST one, if you take that literally, then there would be no other resurrection before that.

... This is the FIRST resurrection. (Rev. 20:5)

However, according to Dan. 12:2, there will be a second resurrection, but that's for the unsaved, who will face the white throne judgement.

... and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2)

... the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:13-15)


The fatal mistake of pre-trib rapture doctrine is its ignorance of the resurrection, making it an insignificant footnote of the rapture, while in the biblical context it is the opposite, Paul meant to comfort the Thessalonian church who were mourning their dead and worried about their fate, "rapture" in whatever definition is an insignificant footnote of the resurrection. I've made this argument many times, that as the power of the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the grave, so will it raise us from the grave, that's our real blessed hope. I believe that rapture is a cowardly cop-out, it is popular as its promise of skipping death, whereas resurrection is unpopular as it's predicated upon death. By no means do I wish for death or the great tribulation, even Lord Jesus himself asked if this cup of suffering could be passed from him (Matt. 26:42); but when you connect these dots and find that such fate is determined, Lord Jesus predicted the persecution of the church - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake." (Matt. 24:9) Clinging to a false hope is not an escape.
 
Joh 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 resurrections. But Revelation seperates the 2 with 1000 years.

Rev 20:4
4 ..... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The first is when the saved are raised
After the 1000 years is the resurrection of damnation. Those that will be destroyed because of the judgement.

Justice is served.

Rev 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

To understand the book of Revelation you need to understand that it is not a strict chronological order but rather as a series of recapitulating, parallel visions (recapitulation).
The style is a structure known as a chiasm (or chiasmus), It is a literary device common to Hebrew literature where ideas are presented in a specific order, followed by a reversal of that order, mirroring each other (A-B-C-B'-A') to create a thematic, rather than chronological, emphasis.
 
To understand the book of Revelation you need to understand that it is not a strict chronological order but rather as a series of recapitulating, parallel visions (recapitulation).
The style is a structure known as a chiasm (or chiasmus), It is a literary device common to Hebrew literature where ideas are presented in a specific order, followed by a reversal of that order, mirroring each other (A-B-C-B'-A') to create a thematic, rather than chronological, emphasis.
I do understand, but only visions of the Great Tribulation are parallel visions, i.e. seven seals, seven trumpets, seven signs (woman, child, dragon, sea beast, earth beast, the 144,000, the three angels reaping the earth), seven bowls. The seven letters and the kingdom do not belong to this category, the former is the church age BEFORE the great tribulation, the latter is AFTER the great tribulation, still matching the chiastic structure.
 
Although this is a controversial topic, I have to lift it off my chest. Most objections against the rapture doctrine are what the term "rapture" means, whether it exists in the bible, whether it was newly invented, whether it creates a "third" coming of Christ, but the real fallacy, as I've noticed, lies within its timing in the rapture narrative, which is predominantly taught as pre-trib. Rapture doctrine's one and only valid prooftext is 1 Thess. 4:17 where the term "caught up" is found, and in the previous verse is hope of resurrection.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

Now here is the kicker. Upon close examination, 4:16 explicitly states that the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Should we take it literally, as the resurrection must precede the rapture? If so, then the pre-trib timing is busted, because the resurrection takes place AFTER the return of Christ in Rev. 20:4-5.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)

And when does Christ return? "Immediately AFTER the tribulation".

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matt. 24:29-30)

Here the dispensationalists will argue that the rapture is a separate event, if that's the case, it would inevitably and necessarily lead to the conclusion that there will be a separate resurrection also, since the two events are a package deal. So, is it possible to have such a preliminary resurrection? Unfortunately, the answer's NO, because the resurrection in Rev. 20:4-5 is the FIRST one, if you take that literally, then there would be no other resurrection before that.

... This is the FIRST resurrection. (Rev. 20:5)

However, according to Dan. 12:2, there will be a second resurrection, but that's for the unsaved, who will face the white throne judgement.

... and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2)

... the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:13-15)


The fatal mistake of pre-trib rapture doctrine is its ignorance of the resurrection, making it an insignificant footnote of the rapture, while in the biblical context it is the opposite, Paul meant to comfort the Thessalonian church who were mourning their dead and worried about their fate, "rapture" in whatever definition is an insignificant footnote of the resurrection. I've made this argument many times, that as the power of the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the grave, so will it raise us from the grave, that's our real blessed hope. I believe that rapture is a cowardly cop-out, it is popular as its promise of skipping death, whereas resurrection is unpopular as it's predicated upon death. By no means do I wish for death or the great tribulation, even Lord Jesus himself asked if this cup of suffering could be passed from him (Matt. 26:42); but when you connect these dots and find that such fate is determined, Lord Jesus predicted the persecution of the church - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake." (Matt. 24:9) Clinging to a false hope is not an escape.
I am a Second coming of the LORD Jesus rapture believer.. So i am not a pre-triber.. The majority of enthusiastic posters on the topic of rapture in CC are pre-trib rapture believers.. For me the rapture and rapture timing is not a doctrinal matter of salvational importance.. Though some people in here seem to get quite emotional in discussions on the matter..

It's probably the most debated topic on this forum if you're counting post numbers made about it..

The other big topic over time in here would be the Works Salvation vs Faith Salvation debate which in my mind is far more serious. A doctrine of salvational importance..
 
the resurrection takes place AFTER

If there is more than one event that could be called a resurrection, this argument loses steam.
 
the resurrection takes place AFTER

If there is more than one event that could be called a resurrection, this argument loses steam.
There are TWO resurrections per Dan. 12:2 and Jn. 5:28-29. Point is, BOTH are post-trib, one at the beginning of the millennial kingdom, the other at the end.
 
Nope.. that Rapture is very Biblical..


I think the term 'rapture" is wrong. It's a pre-trib term that ignores the 1st resurrection and is not even in the Bible.

I'd rather call Jesus' gathering, "parousia" because it is the term for the whole event of both the 1st resurrection of the dead and the catching up of those who remain and are alive.


🕊
 
The resurrected dead, from all past generations.


I also think children below the age of accountability will survive too.

They would have no reason to take the matk at that age. Remember, the mark is a conscious decision.

There also will be those that are not Christian but didn't take the mark and God hid for His own reasons.


🕊
 
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I am a Second coming of the LORD Jesus rapture believer.. So i am not a pre-triber.. The majority of enthusiastic posters on the topic of rapture in CC are pre-trib rapture believers.. For me the rapture and rapture timing is not a doctrinal matter of salvational importance.. Though some people in here seem to get quite emotional in discussions on the matter..

It's probably the most debated topic on this forum if you're counting post numbers made about it..

The other big topic over time in here would be the Works Salvation vs Faith Salvation debate which in my mind is far more serious. A doctrine of salvational importance..


It CAN be a salvation issue because pre-tribbers feel they don't have to build up their faith to endure and withstand what happens to Christians in the GT.


🕊
 
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The only righteous believers in the Tribulation are the Tribulation saints who came to the Lord inside the 7 year Tribulation


That's not what Jesus said and that isn't God the Father's will. So it won't go the way you wish it to.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.


🕊
 
Free gift of God not good enough for you. You want to nail Jesus to the cross every day


Lying about people to try to shame them doesn't change God's will about how He said it will happen.

You're actually just making things worse for yourself.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.


🕊
 
Although this is a controversial topic, I have to lift it off my chest. Most objections against the rapture doctrine are what the term "rapture" means, whether it exists in the bible, whether it was newly invented, whether it creates a "third" coming of Christ, but the real fallacy, as I've noticed, lies within its timing in the rapture narrative, which is predominantly taught as pre-trib. Rapture doctrine's one and only valid prooftext is 1 Thess. 4:17 where the term "caught up" is found, and in the previous verse is hope of resurrection.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thess. 4:16-17)

Now here is the kicker. Upon close examination, 4:16 explicitly states that the dead in Christ will rise FIRST. Should we take it literally, as the resurrection must precede the rapture? If so, then the pre-trib timing is busted, because the resurrection takes place AFTER the return of Christ in Rev. 20:4-5.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST resurrection. (Rev. 20:4-5)

And when does Christ return? "Immediately AFTER the tribulation".

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matt. 24:29-30)

Here the dispensationalists will argue that the rapture is a separate event, if that's the case, it would inevitably and necessarily lead to the conclusion that there will be a separate resurrection also, since the two events are a package deal. So, is it possible to have such a preliminary resurrection? Unfortunately, the answer's NO, because the resurrection in Rev. 20:4-5 is the FIRST one, if you take that literally, then there would be no other resurrection before that.

... This is the FIRST resurrection. (Rev. 20:5)

However, according to Dan. 12:2, there will be a second resurrection, but that's for the unsaved, who will face the white throne judgement.

... and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2)

... the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:13-15)


The fatal mistake of pre-trib rapture doctrine is its ignorance of the resurrection, making it an insignificant footnote of the rapture, while in the biblical context it is the opposite, Paul meant to comfort the Thessalonian church who were mourning their dead and worried about their fate, "rapture" in whatever definition is an insignificant footnote of the resurrection. I've made this argument many times, that as the power of the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the grave, so will it raise us from the grave, that's our real blessed hope. I believe that rapture is a cowardly cop-out, it is popular as its promise of skipping death, whereas resurrection is unpopular as it's predicated upon death. By no means do I wish for death or the great tribulation, even Lord Jesus himself asked if this cup of suffering could be passed from him (Matt. 26:42); but when you connect these dots and find that such fate is determined, Lord Jesus predicted the persecution of the church - "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake." (Matt. 24:9) Clinging to a false hope is not an escape.

I think Paul's timing makes more sense: tribulation > resurrection/rapture > judgment.
 
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Lying about people to try to shame them doesn't change God's will about how He said it will happen.

You're actually just making things worse for yourself.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.


🕊
You have no idea what the Last day is all about
 
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