God knows. That's all that matters. And it will go His way.
I'd rather go with His will than yours.
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
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The resurrection must precedes the rapture
- Thread starter Lovette
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God knows. That's all that matters. And it will go His way.
I'd rather go with His will than yours.
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
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What the Last Day is:
Day of the Lord
Great and Glorious Day of the lord
Great and Terrible Day of the Lord
Resurrection and rapture of the righteous. Final call to be saved by faith
Gathering of the wicked for destruction in Vial judgements
Transfiguration
After 6 days or 6000 years
After 2 days or 2000 years
Resurrection told to Nicodemus in John 3---Born from above
Last Trump/Trumpet
Story of feeding 4 & 5 thousand
Shortening of the days
Parable of the wheat/weeds
All happens beginning at Rev 14:14, not the end of the TRIBULATION
Day of the Lord
Great and Glorious Day of the lord
Great and Terrible Day of the Lord
Resurrection and rapture of the righteous. Final call to be saved by faith
Gathering of the wicked for destruction in Vial judgements
Transfiguration
After 6 days or 6000 years
After 2 days or 2000 years
Resurrection told to Nicodemus in John 3---Born from above
Last Trump/Trumpet
Story of feeding 4 & 5 thousand
Shortening of the days
Parable of the wheat/weeds
All happens beginning at Rev 14:14, not the end of the TRIBULATION
That is man's reasoning. Look how wordy and complicated it is! So much to remember!
But Lord Jesus kept the prophecy simple. And it WILL COME TRUE the way He says it will.
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
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10Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to him who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13
This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
12Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. 75 days after the antichrist takes his seat in Temple of God in middle of the 7 or 1260 days
It's even simpler than that.
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
Sounds like you don't know this, but Jesus will be with His people to the very last day through the Holy Spirit! Anything they don't understand He will iluminate!
Why do you act like you don't know this??
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There goes that Man.. Song..
Why do some of you feel the need to shut down and mock those who hold different beliefs about the Caught Up (Rapture)? That’s quite telling
I know where I stand on this issue, but I have no desire to convince anyone that my personal view on the Rapture is the only correct one. Over the years, you’ve probably heard a lot about this topic, and you’ll find that each side tends to omit certain scriptures, just like the original poster did here. This endless debate about when the first resurrection of the dead happens continues to divide.
Every year, hundreds of thousands of believers suffer, are tortured, and even killed for their faith in Jesus—things so horrific I can’t even describe here. Some make posts arguing that the Pre-Tribulation view is wrong, yet they don’t warn those in third-world countries who truly believe Christ will come before the Great Tribulation. It’s strange because you would think those are the people who most need to hear the truth, right? To tell them there is no hope of escape—that they will have to endure more suffering than ever before. Come on, you know what you believe is true.. I do lol.. go all in or not. But its like witnessing... someone else will do it.. I think this some times.. Father forgive me...
If I really wanted to do missioner work .. I don't have to go to some 3rd world nation I can go to NY or Calf or Oregon state etc. Yeah I can pray for more then a hour a day for Christ. I can go out door to door share Jesus.. I can go stand on some corner and share.. stand in front of some collage hand out just tracks. Do I do just this now? Yet I know how I will be in a time that has never touched the earth? Why say all this. Oh man its been on my heart for years .. you wanna say it but.. you don't wanna offend. But I have since I was 12 or so.. Jesus help me be more like you... let me see people through your eyes. Give me that heart I seem to have misplaced.. it got buried by silly things. Bring it back to life for the lost. Hes coming amen.. but lets focus on what we should be doing now.. or not
Why do some of you feel the need to shut down and mock those who hold different beliefs about the Caught Up (Rapture)? That’s quite telling
I know where I stand on this issue, but I have no desire to convince anyone that my personal view on the Rapture is the only correct one. Over the years, you’ve probably heard a lot about this topic, and you’ll find that each side tends to omit certain scriptures, just like the original poster did here. This endless debate about when the first resurrection of the dead happens continues to divide.Every year, hundreds of thousands of believers suffer, are tortured, and even killed for their faith in Jesus—things so horrific I can’t even describe here. Some make posts arguing that the Pre-Tribulation view is wrong, yet they don’t warn those in third-world countries who truly believe Christ will come before the Great Tribulation. It’s strange because you would think those are the people who most need to hear the truth, right? To tell them there is no hope of escape—that they will have to endure more suffering than ever before. Come on, you know what you believe is true.. I do lol.. go all in or not. But its like witnessing... someone else will do it.. I think this some times.. Father forgive me...
If I really wanted to do missioner work .. I don't have to go to some 3rd world nation I can go to NY or Calf or Oregon state etc. Yeah I can pray for more then a hour a day for Christ. I can go out door to door share Jesus.. I can go stand on some corner and share.. stand in front of some collage hand out just tracks. Do I do just this now? Yet I know how I will be in a time that has never touched the earth? Why say all this. Oh man its been on my heart for years .. you wanna say it but.. you don't wanna offend. But I have since I was 12 or so.. Jesus help me be more like you... let me see people through your eyes. Give me that heart I seem to have misplaced.. it got buried by silly things. Bring it back to life for the lost. Hes coming amen.. but lets focus on what we should be doing now.. or not
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There is only 2 resurrections.
1 of the saints before the millennial reign.
And 1 of the dead after the millennial reign.
There is not a resurrection then a rapture.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
When the saints die they go to be with Jesus.
There is no reason for them to wait.
There is no dead in Christ to raise up according to the soul for they are already with Him.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
That is why there are souls under the altar in heaven for they are with Jesus.
But they have not received their glorified body yet.
They are waiting for the rest to join them after the 3.5 years where the beast makes war against the saints where they will receive their glorified body at the same time including those caught up alive at the end of that time.
All the saints will receive their glorified body at the same event the same day the resurrection.
There is no resurrection of the dead according to the soul first as a group thing because when they die in Christ they are with Him at different times.
And their physical body will not resurrect until all the saints are involved not in part.
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Like grain that is sown and sprouts a plant the human body will sprout to be a glorified body.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The saints that die in Christ are with Jesus and they are asleep according to their physical body which is awaiting resurrection.
The saints alive resurrected and those that die in Christ with their physical bodies resurrected will happen at the same event the resurrection.
Paul said we shall all be changed which involves all the saints whether they died in Christ or are alive.
Which shall happen at the last trump the same event when all the saints are changed.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
At the last trump shall all the saints be changed at the same event.
The dead in Christ their physical bodies shall rise first and they will have their glorified body.
Then those alive will be caught up and their physical bodies will change to a glorified body.
But it is the same event for they are waiting for the rest to join them after the 3.5 years where the beast makes war against the saints where they will receive their glorified body at the same time including those caught up alive at the end of that time.
There is only 2 resurrections.
1 of the saints before the millennial reign.
And 1 of the dead after the millennial reign.
There is not a resurrection then a rapture.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
When the saints die they go to be with Jesus.
There is no reason for them to wait.
There is no dead in Christ to raise up according to the soul for they are already with Him.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
That is why there are souls under the altar in heaven for they are with Jesus.
But they have not received their glorified body yet.
They are waiting for the rest to join them after the 3.5 years where the beast makes war against the saints where they will receive their glorified body at the same time including those caught up alive at the end of that time.
All the saints will receive their glorified body at the same event the same day the resurrection.
There is no resurrection of the dead according to the soul first as a group thing because when they die in Christ they are with Him at different times.
And their physical body will not resurrect until all the saints are involved not in part.
1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Like grain that is sown and sprouts a plant the human body will sprout to be a glorified body.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The saints that die in Christ are with Jesus and they are asleep according to their physical body which is awaiting resurrection.
The saints alive resurrected and those that die in Christ with their physical bodies resurrected will happen at the same event the resurrection.
Paul said we shall all be changed which involves all the saints whether they died in Christ or are alive.
Which shall happen at the last trump the same event when all the saints are changed.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
At the last trump shall all the saints be changed at the same event.
The dead in Christ their physical bodies shall rise first and they will have their glorified body.
Then those alive will be caught up and their physical bodies will change to a glorified body.
But it is the same event for they are waiting for the rest to join them after the 3.5 years where the beast makes war against the saints where they will receive their glorified body at the same time including those caught up alive at the end of that time.
Yep. Theologically I'm not against rapture, I'm only against pre-trib rapture because it contradicts post-trib resurrection. However, the whole narrative of rapture is built upon pre-trib timing, when the pre-trib premise is undermined, the whole narrative collapses.
I do not mock those who hold belief in the rapture, I myself believe in the rapture as gathering of the saints per Matt. 24:31. I only mock those who hold belief in "alien abduction style" rapture, as portrayed in Left Behind hollywood movies. Pre-Tribulation view is wrong simply because it contradicts post-tribulation resurrection, as long as the word "first" in 1 Thess. 4:16 and Rev. 20:5 are taken literally.There goes that Man.. Song..
Why do some of you feel the need to shut down and mock those who hold different beliefs about the Caught Up (Rapture)? That’s quite telling
Every year, hundreds of thousands of believers suffer, are tortured, and even killed for their faith in Jesus—things so horrific I can’t even describe here. Some make posts arguing that the Pre-Tribulation view is wrong, yet they don’t warn those in third-world countries who truly believe Christ will come before the Great Tribulation. It’s strange because you would think those are the people who most need to hear the truth, right? To tell them there is no hope of escape—that they will have to endure more suffering than ever before. Come on, you know what you believe is true.. I do lol.. go all in or not. But its like witnessing... someone else will do it.. I think this some times.. Father forgive me...
If I really wanted to do missioner work .. I don't have to go to some 3rd world nation I can go to NY or Calf or Oregon state etc. Yeah I can pray for more then a hour a day for Christ. I can go out door to door share Jesus.. I can go stand on some corner and share.. stand in front of some collage hand out just tracks. Do I do just this now? Yet I know how I will be in a time that has never touched the earth? Why say all this. Oh man its been on my heart for years .. you wanna say it but.. you don't wanna offend. But I have since I was 12 or so.. Jesus help me be more like you... let me see people through your eyes. Give me that heart I seem to have misplaced.. it got buried by silly things. Bring it back to life for the lost. Hes coming amen.. but lets focus on what we should be doing now.. or not
The last day resurrection is AFTER the millineum.
So your verse interpretation is way way off
Psssst...that verse does not seal ANY ARGUMENT.
....it serves neither pretrib or postrib sides of the debate.
Yes, keep confusing people who don't belong to God.
You do realize all the people who belong to Jesus have the Holy Spirit to protect them from deception, right? They love God’s truth, and only listen to His voice, not yours.
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Still following me with accusations?
Your hate is noted.
You keep aligning yourself with satan.
Accusing the body of Christ.
You must be miserable carrying around that hate for believers.
NEWS FLASH.....eschatology is not a salvation issue.
Claiming you are a superior believer while twisting God's word makes you a joke basically.
I am not the one that confuses salvation.
If you witness to people be sure they are postrib before witnessing.
Otherwise you are wasting your time.
If you can not understand the basis of salvation, none of your doctrine is plausible.
Sad indeed.
Meh, your slander doesn't matter. It's not like you're the first to ever do that to God's people. God knows how to protect His own and slander is part of the tribulation God’s people go through to refine us.
Yes, I don't debate you when Jesus already made it clear that:
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."
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Lol
Your FIRST resurrection spin actually follows the gathering in Rev 14:14.
Oooops.
Back to the drawing board.
Your doctrine in no way fits.
Rev 14:14.
Read it.
It singlehandedly destroys your entire deal.
Or just change 1 thes 4 into the dead do not rise first.
Yes do change it since you changed Rev 20.
That skinny bible has advantages.
A cover and one page out of jn.
Why not just get that one page plastic coated and you wont even need a cover.
SMH
You have to remember how a growing season and harvest work. there is not a single harvest. There's three I think. Early harvest (first fruits) the main harvest is after that, and a late harvest
The dead (bodies) of those who have died in Christ will be raised up and joined back with the soul and spirit and be transformed in a twinkling of an eye. It happens so quick that it will be like people disappear. Everyone on earth will know what just happened. Two in the field one disappears, and one is alone wondering why wasn't I taken?
At the (pre trib) rapture it is to take His Bride away as set apart. The best of the best that's who the Bride is. Jesus would never subject His Bride and His people to such pain and suffering, that's for the evildoers! Rev3:10
Persecution refines and matures God’s people. There's a discussion thread on that.
So God is not going to remove any of us. He wants us refined and purified and it will also weed out the people who don't belong to Him.
John 6:39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."
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????????
The resurrection here IS THE RAPTURE!
The Rapture Event:
1 Corinthians, Chapter 15:
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.