The Return to Sanity

[Magenta]

Socialized healthcare definitely results in a triage environment at the hospital.

Because someone bleeding to death should be made to wait their turn behind non-emergencies?

 

[GaryA]

The more you know the more you realize that you know nothing.
It’s a method that God has created for us to humble us, for those who believe of course.

Indeed.

From a Christian perspective we know that people can get possessed and are not themselves. Modern words like psychopaths, narcissist, egomaniac etc are words to describe what our forefathers called ‘possessed by the devil’ and what the Bible speaks on many occasions.
My favorite one is when Jesus cast the demons away from the possessed man into the pigs who then committed suicide. We have discussed this detail in our weekly Bible studies and we haven’t come up with anything concrete as to why are the ‘rules’ of the game like this. Why didn’t Jesus destroy Legion right there and then? Why did He have to have them cast into pigs who then killed themselves?
We came up with many answers which we can discuss another time if you wish, but the point is that the evil one is going to torment a lot of people for now but his ultimate fate is sealed.

I am curious about - and, may be interested in - what your group came up with. But, I do not wish to derail this thread. Perhaps you might start a thread on that topic and tell a bit about your conclusions...?

 

[Mem]

Indeed.


I am curious about - and, may be interested in - what your group came up with. But, I do not wish to derail this thread. Perhaps you might start a thread on that topic and tell a bit about your conclusions...?

Wait, I must've been busy and let this get away from me! How would continuing to discuss this have derailed the thread? I mean, any insight into a return to sanity, however anyone might've found themselves to be whatever degree from it, whether just a little or a lot, was exactly the intent of this thread.

But if you did begin another thread, I'm interested even if I'm waaaay late to the discussion. Did you indeed begin another thread Eli?

 

[tourist]

Wait, I must've been busy and let this get away from me! How would continuing to discuss this have derailed the thread? I mean, any insight into a return to sanity, however anyone might've found themselves to be whatever degree from it, whether just a little or a lot, was exactly the intent of this thread.

But if you did begin another thread, I'm interested even if I'm waaaay late to the discussion. Did you indeed begin another thread Eli?

Most threads, given enough time and participation, eventually get derailed. Personally, I love a good derail.

 

[GaryA]

Thank you for opening this topic. I will add here from time to time.

.
.
.

The more you know the more you realize that you know nothing.
It’s a method that God has created for us to humble us, for those who believe of course.

Indeed.

From a Christian perspective we know that people can get possessed and are not themselves. Modern words like psychopaths, narcissist, egomaniac etc are words to describe what our forefathers called ‘possessed by the devil’ and what the Bible speaks on many occasions.
My favorite one is when Jesus cast the demons away from the possessed man into the pigs who then committed suicide. We have discussed this detail in our weekly Bible studies and we haven’t come up with anything concrete as to why are the ‘rules’ of the game like this. Why didn’t Jesus destroy Legion right there and then? Why did He have to have them cast into pigs who then killed themselves?
We came up with many answers which we can discuss another time if you wish, but the point is that the evil one is going to torment a lot of people for now but his ultimate fate is sealed.

I am curious about - and, may be interested in - what your group came up with. But, I do not wish to derail this thread. Perhaps you might start a thread on that topic and tell a bit about your conclusions...?

Wait, I must've been busy and let this get away from me! How would continuing to discuss this have derailed the thread? I mean, any insight into a return to sanity, however anyone might've found themselves to be whatever degree from it, whether just a little or a lot, was exactly the intent of this thread.

But if you did begin another thread, I'm interested even if I'm waaaay late to the discussion. Did you indeed begin another thread Eli?

Eli:

Is it time?

(for you to add something)

 

[GaryA]

Wait, I must've been busy and let this get away from me! How would continuing to discuss this have derailed the thread? I mean, any insight into a return to sanity, however anyone might've found themselves to be whatever degree from it, whether just a little or a lot, was exactly the intent of this thread.

But if you did begin another thread, I'm interested even if I'm waaaay late to the discussion. Did you indeed begin another thread Eli?

Whatever works for me...

 

[Mem]

Whatever works for me...

I'll come back to this when I can devote more time to this and try to generate more on the discussion after I review the thread from the beginning.

Looking back over my threads at their timestamps, I realize now that this one left off about the time that I went into mourning having lost my first feral of three (mebbe that's crazy but yes) and now there is only one remaining since the landlord let me know at the July4th Fireworks gathering that the second of them was discovered having gone to her rest in her favored camping spot.
I noticed that Eli might've been driven a bit insane himself having been active earlier in his recently adopted stomping ground and I could've sworn that I tagged him in my comment but looking back I see I left out the @ in the @Eli1.

It might be a few days before I come back to it though, but let's do try to restore as much sanity as can be salvaged in the backdrop of a world gone completely bonkers.

 

[Eli1]

Sorry brothers and sister(s) i have been a bit busy with some personal stuff and yes the News section of this forum is my favorite now after Trump won, i admit that
I know you may see it as crazy, and it is, but to me is simply a lot of laughs. So i'm not stressed out being there or anything if you're wondering.

The topic of the casting of demons was a Bible discussion we did a few years ago and some on our member group discussed the following topics:

* Does God have any mercy for Satan (Controversial topic).
* Did Jesus choose this method to show to the Jews and the customs back then, that a pig is an unclean animal and ultimate to show that He had control of Satan?

These two topics were discussed about half an hour by the group and since it was a while ago, i don't remember more details but i will ask my priest again about this topic.

What do you all think about those ideas? And what are your ideas and understandings about this event when you have discussed with your Bible groups and fellow Christians?

God bless you all.

 

[GaryA]

My favorite one is when Jesus cast the demons away from the possessed man into the pigs who then committed suicide. We have discussed this detail in our weekly Bible studies and we haven’t come up with anything concrete as to why are the ‘rules’ of the game like this. Why didn’t Jesus destroy Legion right there and then? Why did He have to have them cast into pigs who then killed themselves?

What do you all think about those ideas? And what are your ideas and understandings about this event when you have discussed with your Bible groups and fellow Christians?

My understanding:

1) The demons made the request that Jesus allow them to go into the pigs because - for them - to "inhabit" any living creature is better than being disembodied.

2) The presence of the demons caused the pigs to "go mad" and run to their death.

3) The demons were not destroyed when the pigs died - simply disembodied again.

 

[Eli1]

My understanding:

1) The demons made the request that Jesus allow them to go into the pigs because - for them - to "inhabit" any living creature is better than being disembodied.

2) The presence of the demons caused the pigs to "go mad" and run to their death.

3) The demons were not destroyed when the pigs died - simply disembodied again.

Agree with this Gary.
Do you think that this is also a method chosen by Jesus to show us in the physical world that He dealt with the demon?
Because we can't see the spiritual world right? Unless revealed by God in a Miracle of some kind.
If He destroyed legion in the spiritual world, how would the people even notice or see anything? Of course He could have chosen another method and have the people see the spiritual world like the apostilles saw Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus.
But maybe in this case it's also a show of mercy by Jesus by giving legion some 'food' to consume in the form of the pigs?

What do you think?

 

[GaryA]

Agree with this Gary.
Do you think that this is also a method chosen by Jesus to show us in the physical world that He dealt with the demon?
Because we can't see the spiritual world right? Unless revealed by God in a Miracle of some kind.
If He destroyed legion in the spiritual world, how would the people even notice or see anything? Of course He could have chosen another method and have the people see the spiritual world like the apostilles saw Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus.
But maybe in this case it's also a show of mercy by Jesus by giving legion some 'food' to consume in the form of the pigs?

What do you think?

It certainly makes sense that Jesus did what He did in part to show people in the physical realm something that was very real in the spiritual realm.

Again, I don't think He destroyed them - they are no doubt still around today. However, I see what you are getting at - no one would have realized what was going on if they had not seen something they could identify with and understand.

I have to disagree with the 'food' idea - I do not think that was/is the case. And, I do not see it as being mercy - Jesus [temporarily] "gave them what they asked for" before showing them that they could not have what they actually wanted. They were "punished" in a sense by way of ending up disembodied.

 

[Mem]

Nice! Something to think on. The demons requested that they be allowed to enter the herd of pigs and Jesus granted it them. The man with the legion behaved irrationally, harming himself, and similarly, the pigs appeared to behave irrationally. What was going on in their (insane) minds? Did they think to 'cleanse' themselves of the demons by way of the water?

 

[GaryA]

Did they think to 'cleanse' themselves of the demons by way of the water?

I don't think the pigs reached that conclusion. I am not even sure a pig knows anything about demons - certainly not enough to "have a clue" about what was going on. I think it was what they could not understand that drove them violently into the lake.

I am thinking they simply "went mad" because they "could not handle" whatever affect the demons had on them.

 

[Mem]

I don't think the pigs reached that conclusion. I am not even sure a pig knows anything about demons - certainly not enough to "have a clue" about what was going on. I think it was what they could not understand that drove them violently into the lake.

I am thinking they simply "went mad" because they "could not handle" whatever affect the demons had on them.

What if we consider the perspective of the legion, these seem to be of 'one mind' (imagine the damage that we could do if we were ever able to achieve such a thing). Look what the man with an unclean demon said to Jesus in Luke 4: 34, “Ha! What do You want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!” Notice the mixed pronouns, "us" and "I." And the man with the legion in Luke 8:26-33 spoke in the singular, “What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You not to torture me!” and Jesus prompted an answer from all of them asking, "What is your name?"

The common thread in both accounts is that the demons' intent to drive the men to self-destruction and into solitary places and in both cases, Jesus apparent intent was to confront their situations "right away (Mark 1:21; Mark 5:2)" The former right after He gather His first four disciples and the latter after Jesus said, "Let us go to the other side," and He calmed the storm, as soon as they stepped out of the boat.

I can't help but note that, while possessed, the first said, "What do you want with us... have you come to destroy us...I know who You are..." and the second similarly, "What do you want with me, (I know you're) Jesus...I beg you not to torture me" Showing they don't know 'Who He is," that is, He didn't come to neither destroy nor torture but to set the men free and restore them to their right mind. It seems apparent to me that they were attempting to throw shade on His Name.