the Sabbath
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The text states they were once in a state of grace and sanctified.
Hebrews 10:29
...and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
You cannot be sanctified and insult the spirit of grace unless you were once saved.
Your missing the point, God never let them go. They let go of salvation themselves.
That is what the text states.
Hebrews 2:1 2 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it.
What did the Hebrews do? They were drifting into unbelief in the blood of the covenant.
Hebrews 3:12
Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
There you have it, you can fall away!
Hebrews 10:29
...and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
You cannot be sanctified and insult the spirit of grace unless you were once saved.
Your missing the point, God never let them go. They let go of salvation themselves.
That is what the text states.
Hebrews 2:1 2 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it.
What did the Hebrews do? They were drifting into unbelief in the blood of the covenant.
Hebrews 3:12
Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
There you have it, you can fall away!
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Grace ...faith.... righteousness in Jesus.
We all agree that Jesus is the only way we can stand justified in the judgement.
And you seem to agree that the fruits of following Jesus is good works.
Why are 9 of the 10 commandments okay to keep because you are bearing fruits as a result of faith, but as soon as the sabbath is mentioned it becomes legalism?
Why are 9 of the 10 commandments good laws to obey but 1 is stained with many arguments to try and show that it should be forgotten?
The law is holy and just and good.
It is Spiritual and Paul delights in it.
The law is perfect,
We fail to obey it perfectly but the law is perfect. God gave Jesus and He perfectly obeyed it so that we could be gifted His righteousness. The law has not been removed, it remains as the perfect standard.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
We all agree that Jesus is the only way we can stand justified in the judgement.
And you seem to agree that the fruits of following Jesus is good works.
Why are 9 of the 10 commandments okay to keep because you are bearing fruits as a result of faith, but as soon as the sabbath is mentioned it becomes legalism?
Why are 9 of the 10 commandments good laws to obey but 1 is stained with many arguments to try and show that it should be forgotten?
The law is holy and just and good.
It is Spiritual and Paul delights in it.
The law is perfect,
We fail to obey it perfectly but the law is perfect. God gave Jesus and He perfectly obeyed it so that we could be gifted His righteousness. The law has not been removed, it remains as the perfect standard.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
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I realize we disagree. But there is no provision in the new covenant for someone in Christ to be removed from being in Christ. The covenant is not between God and men. It is between God the Father and God the Son. So man cannot fail to meet the stipulations of the covenant. It is manproofed. Thus, it cannot fail.
But let's consider another angle. What exactly is the process to be unborn again? How exactly would someone lose eternal life? If it can be lost, was it actually eternal to begin with? And since eternal life consists in knowing God, how does one have intimate knowledge of God through revelation and experience, and then no longer possess it?
To be sure there is something going here. And I don't understand what exactly God is teaching in the verses you shared. But my interest is piqued and I will study it when I have opportunity and share what I find.
And I appreciate very much the iron against iron.
But let's consider another angle. What exactly is the process to be unborn again? How exactly would someone lose eternal life? If it can be lost, was it actually eternal to begin with? And since eternal life consists in knowing God, how does one have intimate knowledge of God through revelation and experience, and then no longer possess it?
To be sure there is something going here. And I don't understand what exactly God is teaching in the verses you shared. But my interest is piqued and I will study it when I have opportunity and share what I find.
And I appreciate very much the iron against iron.
We are not perfect in of ourselves. Romans 4:6 - God imputes righteousness apart from works. 2 Corinthians 5:21 - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Again, that statement from Jesus would come as a shock to the multitude of people who had great admiration of the scribes and Pharisees for their knowledge of the law and seeming righteousness in external observance of the law, yet Jesus points out their righteousness was defective. Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:3-4, "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES."
Keeping their rules over the commandments of God was a manifestation of their unbelief, which is always at the heart of the issue of condemnation. (John 3:18) I would not want to take the same path as any unbeliever (whether a scribe/Pharisee or pseudo-Christian in general) who refuses to believe the gospel by refusing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Galatians 1:6-9)
Again, that statement from Jesus would come as a shock to the multitude of people who had great admiration of the scribes and Pharisees for their knowledge of the law and seeming righteousness in external observance of the law, yet Jesus points out their righteousness was defective. Paul makes it clear in Romans 10:3-4, "For they (Israel) being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES."
Keeping their rules over the commandments of God was a manifestation of their unbelief, which is always at the heart of the issue of condemnation. (John 3:18) I would not want to take the same path as any unbeliever (whether a scribe/Pharisee or pseudo-Christian in general) who refuses to believe the gospel by refusing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Galatians 1:6-9)
Amen. God said the Sabbath is His holy day that He made holy for us as we are made in His image- how could what He created for us to be a blessing and sanctifying be anything else.
God personally wrote Ten Commandments, not nine, we have to have room for faith on the commandment He said to Remember that reveals Him as the Author of His law and all Creation..
God personally wrote Ten Commandments, not nine, we have to have room for faith on the commandment He said to Remember that reveals Him as the Author of His law and all Creation..
Yes, given to the children of Israel (who are of mankind) and not to everyone. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15)
In regard to Isaiah 56:2-7, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9) When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they ceased being Gentiles and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.
But where are Gentiles as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12)
And when God gave the Sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10) Where is the passage that proves the Sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the Sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."
In regard to Isaiah 66:22-23, this simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25).
How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
Furthermore, if one insists on weekly sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then one also needs to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, Sabbatarians don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot.
Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the weekly sabbath day under the law in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it's also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. The old and new covenants do not mix.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9 10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
In regard to Isaiah 56:2-7, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9) When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they ceased being Gentiles and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.
But where are Gentiles as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12)
And when God gave the Sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10) Where is the passage that proves the Sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the Sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."
In regard to Isaiah 66:22-23, this simply teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25).
How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.
Furthermore, if one insists on weekly sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then one also needs to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, Sabbatarians don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot.
Will there be Levitical priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the weekly sabbath day under the law in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it's also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. The old and new covenants do not mix.
Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9 10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.
You remain on the old covenant plantation of law. For the upteenth time, who is US? Exodus 20:2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought YOU out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore, the Lord your God commanded YOU to keep the Sabbath day.
Exodus 31:16 - Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
Deuteronomy 5:15 - And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought YOU out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore, the Lord your God commanded YOU to keep the Sabbath day.
Exodus 31:16 - Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
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Don't you realize Israel is a name God gave to identify His people- it is used metaphorically and literal and we are grafted into God's Israel through faith. Gal 3:26-28 Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man (word here means mankind) Mark 2:27 and for everyone Isa 56:6 -it truly can't be any clearer and one would only miss it if they wanted to.
God's New Covenant made to Israel Jer 31:33 Heb 8:10
3 decades later....after the Cross
Acts 13:42 [n]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
God's New Covenant made to Israel Jer 31:33 Heb 8:10
- 1. A NEW heart - the Law of God written on the heart
- 2. Adoption into the family of God.
- 3. God is our personal teacher
- 4. Sins forgiven.
3 decades later....after the Cross
Acts 13:42 [n]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
I understand what the Pharisees did. They had turned the Sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. Neither Jesus nor His disciples had broken God’s law. They had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the Sabbath.
I have not changed the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, yet you seem quick to condemn those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday and refer to them as the new Pharisees. You seem to have a lot of faith in commandment keeping for salvation (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). So is that where you draw the line on how obedient and holy one must be in order to be saved? ONLY those who have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments will be saved? Is that your answer?
I have not changed the Sabbath day from Saturday to Sunday, yet you seem quick to condemn those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday and refer to them as the new Pharisees. You seem to have a lot of faith in commandment keeping for salvation (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). So is that where you draw the line on how obedient and holy one must be in order to be saved? ONLY those who have sufficiently obeyed the 10 commandments will be saved? Is that your answer?
Christians are not written out of God's new covenant promise and the body of Christ is not physical Israel in the Old Testament either. (Exodus 31:16-17; 35:1-3; Deuteronomy 5:15) I already thoroughly explained Mark 2:27 and Isaiah 56:6 to you multiple times, but unfortunately, you are unable to see anything beyond your SDA church indoctrination.
In a spiritual sense, in Romans 3:28, we read - There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Also see 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Ephesians 3:6.
In a spiritual sense, in Romans 3:28, we read - There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Also see 1 Corinthians 12:13 and Ephesians 3:6.
Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
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As I stated we are one in Christ, but God always makes a Covenant with His people, the only Covenant God ever made with man has been through Israel. If we are part of God’s Israel we have God’s law written in our heart and part of that law is the Sabbath because its the only commandment that reveals who is the Author of His law and the only law that reveals God’s authoritative power over heaven and earth. It’s why Jesus kept the Sabbath, His faithful followers and the apostles. Jesus said come follow Me, He is our example, so that is where my faith lies over the commandments of man, because according to the words of Jesus we are to live by that is the wrong path. Mat 15:3-14
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Yes, we need Christ righteousness. Did Christ keep the Sabbath as that is part of His way of righteous living Psa 119:172. Isa 56:1-6 Luke 4:16 Only He can impute His righteousness, but it is based on His ways which is above our ways. He said in His own Words- the Sabbath is MY holy day- when did He ever say anything different? It’s why the saints will worship before Him from one Sabbath to another for eternity Isa 66:22-23 He does not change- His righteousness and truth never changes. All of God’s commandments are righteous and truth and the Sabbath God made holy and blessed And no man has the authority to reverse.
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In regard to Acts 13:42-44, Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" in Christ before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.
The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God." 44 On the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."
Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.
Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."
Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.
The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God." 44 On the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."
Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.
Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."
Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.
Sad. Believe and explain away any scripture we want, your commentary is not in the scripture and we are warned not to add to God’s Word Pro 30:5-6.
If the Sabbath ended at the Cross as you have suggested, the apostles would have explained that in clear easy to understand words and instead of keeping every Sabbath 30 years after. When the Gentiles begged for more preaching the next Sabbath Paul could have easily stated we now worship on the first day, but he never did that, they faithfully kept every Sabbath per Jesus command, Mat 28:18-20
I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word, don’t think we will come to any agreement, but wish you well.
If the Sabbath ended at the Cross as you have suggested, the apostles would have explained that in clear easy to understand words and instead of keeping every Sabbath 30 years after. When the Gentiles begged for more preaching the next Sabbath Paul could have easily stated we now worship on the first day, but he never did that, they faithfully kept every Sabbath per Jesus command, Mat 28:18-20
I wish you well in seeking Truth to God’s Word, don’t think we will come to any agreement, but wish you well.
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And there would be a thus saith the Lord- God personally wrote the Sabbath- He blessed, sanctified and made it holy- only He can reverse this, not man. Without the seal of God on the Sabbath that shows He is the Creator and Author the other 9 commandments are useless because we can’t do anything without His power. All the thus saith the Lords in scripture regarding the Sabbath and there are many are for us to keep and not profane.
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