The scriptures 2009

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Nov 12, 2015
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#21
And now back to my question hiz. So that you can put an old woman's concerns to rest - do you believe that Jesus (by whatever name you choose to call Him) is God (by whatever name you choose to call Him)?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#22
I didn't say misleading names were being used. I said at issue was an attempt to confuse men. It is hard enough for us to grasp that Jesus is God, a physical manifestation of God Himself in the form of a human.

And once again you bring up my self-admitted rash and foolish and unfounded statement, so I will now reiterate a fourth time that my statement that watchtower was monetarily involved in the translation was unfounded, rash, foolish and completely stupid on my part.
Involved, or not, you were wise to remind people that making sure they are not possibly getting some JW-type information should be a priority.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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#23
And now back to my question hiz. So that you can put an old woman's concerns to rest - do you believe that Jesus (by whatever name you choose to call Him) is God (by whatever name you choose to call Him)?
Stunned, I ask you because I’m often asked this same thing as if I’m being proved ..

When a person must answer yes or no to prove them Believers..


Many see the Messiah as a Prophet some even speak evil things of Him.. which I would not even write out in disgust.. today I came across Jesus and Mary Magdalene had 2 Sons scandal.. it sickens me..

What is it to deny the Divinity of the Lord?

Is it to say He was not born of a virgin birth?

Is it to say He is not GOD’s Begotten Son?

Is it to deny He is the Messiah as Prophesised?


Just looking for some insight and thank you in advance.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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#24
Stunned, I ask you because I’m often asked this same thing as if I’m being proved ..

When a person must answer yes or no to prove them Believers..


Many see the Messiah as a Prophet some even speak evil things of Him.. which I would not even write out in disgust.. today I came across Jesus and Mary Magdalene had 2 Sons scandal.. it sickens me..

What is it to deny the Divinity of the Lord?

Is it to say He was not born of a virgin birth?

Is it to say He is not GOD’s Begotten Son?

Is it to deny He is the Messiah as Prophesised?


Just looking for some insight and thank you in advance.
To deny the divinity of Jesus is to...not be saved. It is to be dead, both now and in eternity.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#26
The book of John states, using the framework of the beginning of Genesis, that Jesus created everything we see and that He is in fact God.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#28
And now back to my question hiz. So that you can put an old woman's concerns to rest - do you believe that Jesus (by whatever name you choose to call Him) is God (by whatever name you choose to call Him)?
I call Him by His name, I see no problem with that, and no reason for someone to accuse, the pharisees fobode speaking His name, I don't follow them or their practices I follow YHWH.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - ADONAI
a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay): A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton YHWH; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay," (Lord). Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "YHWH (YHWH)."

The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Kiddushin, page 71a
...R. Abina opposed [two verses]: It is written, 'this is my name'; but it is also written, 'and this is my memorial'?__The Holy One, blessed be He, said: I am not called as I am written: I am written with yod he, but I am read, alef daleth.7. The Tetragrammaton is yod he waw he (YHWH); but it is read adonai= alef daleth nun yod (ADNY)...

The Name YHWH was removed at least 6,823 times and replaced with LORD or GOD. You can tell where it was because ALL the letters are capital where YHWH was. The Masorites added vowel points to the Hebrew manuscripts (not in the "J" writings," (Called J (Y) for it's use of YHWH), but in the next oldest, the "E" writings (for it's use of Elohim). The vowel points replaced YHWH's Name with Adonai = Lord and Elohim = God(s).It is forbidden by YHWH to hide His Name by the way. However as we seen in the Talmud, to the Rabbis this is of no effect: "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice." Then we come to modern times when this false practice is still used, many Bible prefaces literally say, "this tradition is still used".

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of YHWH by your traditions?"

Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b
His brethren [that year] the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name (YHWH) in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white/"

Numbers 6:23-27, "Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying; This is how you are to bless the children of Israyl. Say to them; YHWH BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU. YHWH MAKE HIS FACE SHINE UPON YOU AND BE MERCIFUL TO YOU. YHWH LIFT UP HIS COUNTENANCE UPON YOU, AND GIVE YOU PEACE. So they will put MY NAME on the children of Israyl, and I will bless them."

Yeremyah 2:8, "The priests did not ask; Where is YHWH? Those who deal with the Law did not know Me! The pastors also transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied in the name of Baal, and walked after things of worthlessness"

Psalm 103:1, "Bless You YHWH, O our souls! And all that is within us bless Your holy Name!"

Psalm 105:1, "Give thanks to YHWH! Call upon His Name! Make known what He has done among the nations!"

Zephanyah 3:9, "Yes, at that time I will return to the peoples a pure language, so that all of them may call on the Name of YHWH, and serve Him with one accord."

and no im not better than anyone, that nonsense comes from people who want to accuse those who use His name What does this have to do at all with the topic? Is it a salvational issue? IAm I not a part or the curch if I beleive either way? So in truth I can not say for sure, as there are veses that seem tobe for either understanding. Honestly to me this seems like a attempt to find reason to thorw stones.

Psalm 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"2, "יהוה sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!"3, "Your people volunteer in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth!"4, "יהוה has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.”"5, "יהוה at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath."6, "He judges among the nations, He shall fill the nations with dead bodies, He shall crush the Head over the mighty earth!"7, "He drinks of the stream by the wayside, Therefore He does lift up the head!"

Revelation 21:23
New International Version
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

New Living Translation
And the city has no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light.

English Standard Version
And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Berean Study Bible
And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Berean Literal Bible
And the city has no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they should shine in it; for the glory of God enlightened it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

New American Standard Bible
And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

King James Bible
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 21:23, “And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, to shine in it, for the esteem of Yah lightened it, and the Lamb is its lamp.”

The trinity verse weas added years after and is a forgery:
Proper and original text from the 1[SUP]st [/SUP]century:

1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."

Altered text from the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century: 1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

1 John 5:7-8, “Because there are three who bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement."

Comma Johanneum refers to a short clause in John 5:7-8 in the Latin Vulgate text which was transmitted since the Early Middle Ages. It was later included in the Textus Receptus Greek in support of trinity doctrine. The comma does not appear in the older Greek text. The ‘comma’ is displayed below in italics.

v.7 Because there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

v.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.

1 John 5:7 Parallel Verses

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —

NET Bible
For there are three that testify,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:

English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony, the Spirit, the water, and the blood;

World English Bible
For there are three who testify:

Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, the three, are one;

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

Yet there are valid and true (not forged) verses that they seem to be the same) To fully quantify YHWH is impossible, if we look at Yahshua's name we see He is YWHH's Salvation or YHWH has saved:

“Jesus” is word #G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p., 1. (meaning) He is Salvation, Yahweh saves (i.e. the Savior)., 2. (person) Jesus (i.e. Yeshua, Yehoshua), the name of our Lord, also called the Last Adam., 3. (person) Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) an Israelite, the servant and successor of Moses., 4. (person) Jeshua, also called Justus, an Israelite, a coworker with Paul., 5. (NOTE) (“Jesus” is a valid English transliteration, coming from Ancient Hebrew to Koine Greek (via the Septuagint) to Latin to Old English to Modern English. It is completely acceptable to God (Yahweh) for us call upon the Savior's name as “Jesus,” or “Iesous,” or “Yeshua,” or even “Yesu” as in Christian Arabic or in the Fijian Islands, et al. God prepared for all nations to be able to trust in the Savior and to call upon his name by preparing a language dialect for international use: the Hebraic-Koine Greek. Thus, technically and formally, the pronunciation “Iesous” was intentionally established by the Savior as the common basis for Jewish and Gentile acknowledgment of his Redemption and Salvation, going forth as needed into every tribe, native tongue, people, and nation. “Yeshua” is of course delightfully acceptable to him, when it is not used as an exclusionary name. Love edifies)., 6. (NOTE) (Revelation 3:12)., [of Hebrew origin (H3442 as the shortened form of H3091)], KJV: Jesus, Root(s): H3442, See also: H3091

Root word of Jesus” is word #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l., 1. he will save., 2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel., [for H3091], KJV: Jeshua. , Root(s): H3091

Root word of Jesus” is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah), 1. Yahweh-saved.2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua., Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442

The original name s are beautiful IMO, they are have really awesom meanings not conveyed in the common transliteraltions/versions, some examples:

John /Yowchanan
Yahweh-favored.

Matthew/MattithYah
gift of Yah.

Isaiah/Ysha`Yah
Yah has saved

Jeremiah/YirmYah
Yah will be raised.

Zachariah/ZrachYah
Yah has risen

Hezekiah/ChizqiYah
strengthened of Yah.

Micah/MiykaYah
who (is) like Yah?

Malachi/Mal'akiy
messenger of Yah

Every name has meaning in it original form
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#29
Involved, or not, you were wise to remind people that making sure they are not possibly getting some JW-type information should be a priority.
yet this was a made up accustion, but it sems the damage is done none the less. Also His name is not JW type info, it is His name in Scripture over 6,000 times.

Exodus 34:5-7, "Then YHWH descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the Name of YHWH. YHWH passed in front of him, and proclaimed: YHWH, YHWH Almighty, merciful and compassionate, longsuffering, and abounding in righteousness and truth. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression, and sin; but by no means leaving unpunished those who are guilty; Who visits the sin of the fathers upon the children and the children's children, to the third and fourth generation."

Psalm 116:13, "We will take the cup of salvation, and we will call upon Your Name, O YHWH."

John 5:43, "I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow."

Mattithyah 23:39, "For I say to you: From this moment you will not see Me, until you say: Blessed is He Who comes in the Name of YHWH!"

Psalms 118:26, "Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה! We shall bless you from the House of יהוה. "

Matthew 21:9, "And the crowds who went before and those who followed cried out, saying, “Hoshia-na to the Son of Dawiḏ! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה! Hoshia-na in the highest!”

John 12:13, "took the branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and were crying out, “Hoshia-na! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of יהוה, the Sovereign of Yisra’ĕl!”

The Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume 7 page 680
The personal name... written in the Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH and is referred to as the "Tetragrammaton." At least until the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. this name was regularly pronounced with its proper vowels, as is clear from the Lachish Letters, written shortly before that date. But at least by the third century B.C.E. the
pronunciation of the name YHWH was avoided and Adonai,"the Lord,"was substituted for it.

Word #H136 - Adonay: Adonay:
Lord - Original Word: אֲדֹנָי - Transliteration: Adonay - Phonetic Spelling: (ad-o-noy') - Short Definition: Lord

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - ADONAI
a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay): A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton YHWH; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay," (Lord). Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "YHWH (YHWH)."

The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Kiddushin, page 71a
...R. Abina opposed [two verses]: It is written, 'this is my name'; but it is also written, 'and this is my memorial'?__The Holy One, blessed be He, said:
I am not called as I am written: I am written with yod he, but I am read, alef daleth.7. The Tetragrammaton is yod he waw he (YHWH); but it is read adonai= alef daleth nun yod (ADNY)...

The Name YHWH was removed at least 6,823 times and replaced with LORD or GOD. You can tell where it was because ALL the letters are capital where YHWH was. The Masorites added vowel points to the Hebrew manuscripts (not in the "J" writings," (Called J (Y) for it's use of YHWH), but in the next oldest, the "E" writings (for it's use of Elohim). The vowel points replaced YHWH's Name with Adonai = Lord and Elohim = God(s).It is forbidden by YHWH to hide His Name by the way. However as we seen in the Talmud, to the Rabbis this is of no effect: "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice." Then we come to modern times when this false practice is still used, many Bible prefaces literally say, "this tradition is still used".

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of YHWH by your traditions?"

Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b
His brethren [that year]
the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name (YHWH) in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white/"

American Standard Version - Preface
"The change first proposed in the Appendix --- that which substitutes "Jehovah" for "LORD" and "GOD" (printed in small capitals) --- is one which will be unwelcome by many, because of the frequency and familiarity of the terms displaced. But the American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries.

English Standard Version - Preface
"In the translation of biblical terms referring to God, the ESV takes great care to convey the specific nuances of meaning of the original Hebrew and Greek terms. First, concerning terms that refer to God in the Old Testament: God, the Maker of heaven and earth, introduced himself to the people of Israel with the special, personal name, whose consonants are YHWH (see Exodus 3:14-15). Scholars call this the “Tetragrammaton,” a Greek term referring to the four Hebrew letters YHWH. The exact pronunciation of YHWH is uncertain, because the Jewish people considered the personal name of God to be so holy that it should never be spoken aloud. Instead of reading the word YHWH, they would normally read the Hebrew word adonai (“Lord”), and the ancient translations into Greek, Syriac, and Aramaic also followed suit. When the vowels of the word adonai are placed with the consonants of YHWH, this results in the familiar word Jehovah that was used in some earlier English Bible translations. As is common among English translations today, the ESV usually renders the personal name of God (YHWH) with the word Lord (printed in small capitals). An exception to this is when the Hebrew word adonai appears together with YHWH, in which case the two words are rendered together as “the Lord [in lower case] God [in small capitals].” In contrast to the personal name for God (YHWH), the more general name for God in Old Testament Hebrew is ‘elohim and its related forms of ‘el or ‘eloah, all of which are normally translated “God” (in lower case letters). The use of these different ways to translate the Hebrew words for God is especially beneficial to the English reader, enabling the reader to see and understand the different ways that the personal name and the general name for God are both used to refer to the One True God of the Old Testament."

The English Revised Version - Preface
"It has been thought advisable in regard to the word "JEHOVAH" to follow the usage of the Authorised Version, and not to insert it uniformly in place of "LORD" or "GOD," which when printed in small capitals represent the words substituted by Jewish custom for the ineffable Name according to the vowel points by which it is distinguished. It will be found, therefore, that in this respect the Authorised Version has been departed from only in a few passages, in which the introduction of a proper name seemed to be required."

GOD'S WORD Translation - Preface
"GOD'S WORD capitalizes the first letter in proper nouns and sentences and all the letters in the word LORD when it represents Yahweh, the name of God in the Old Testament."

Good News Translation Bible - Preface
"Following an ancient tradition, begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by “LORD.” When Adonai, normally translated “Lord,” is followed by Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase “Sovereign LORD.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible - Preface
"The Tetragrammaton occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Bible. Nearly all English versions follow the ancient tradition of rendering the Divine name as “the Lord.” The King James Version makes only four exceptions (Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 12:2, and Isaiah 26:4), where it renders the name as “Jehovah.” The first edition of the HCSB used “Yahweh” seventy-five times, and the 2009 revision increased the number to 476, although the ordinary rendering continues to be “the Lord.” One of the editors of the version has explained why the version uses “Yahweh” in the places where it does: We use it as the rendering of YHWH (which the Hebrew Bible editors first rendered as Adonai, “Lord”) whenever God’s “name” is being given (either explicitly, using the word “name,” or implicitly), when He is being identified (“I am Yahweh”), when He is being contrasted to other gods such as Baal, in certain repeated phrases such as “Yahweh the God of your fathers,” or when YHWH has been rendered by Yahweh in the immediate context. … our objective is to introduce to the contemporary church what is the most likely pronunciation of the divine name YHWH in the Hebrew Bible. We did not render the majority of occurrences of YHWH as Yahweh because our goal is not only to be accurate but to use an English style that is most familiar to people. Since most Christians today probably do not commonly speak of “Yahweh,” but rather of “the Lord,” we felt it would be insensitive to use Yahweh for YHWH in every case and would make the Bible seem too uncomfortable for most people."

New American Bible - Preface
"A superficial difference between two of these sources is responsible for their names: the Yahwist prefers the name Yahweh (represented in translation as Lord) by which God revealed himself to Israel; the Elohist prefers the generic name for God, Elohim. The Yahwist is concrete, imaginative, using many anthropomorphisms in its theological approach, as seen, e.g., in the narrative of creation in Genesis 2, compared with the Priestly version in Genesis 1. The Elohist is more sober, moralistic. The Priestly strand, which emphasizes genealogies, is more severely theological in tone. The Deuteronomic approach is characterized by the intense hortatory style of Deuteronomy 5-11, and by certain principles from which it works, such as the centralization of worship in the Jerusalem temple."

New American Standard Bible - Preface
"THE PROPER NAME OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT: In the Scriptures, the name of God is most significant and understandably so. It is inconceivable to think of spiritual matters without a proper designation for the Supreme Deity. Thus the most common name for the Deity is God, a translation of the original Elohim. One of the titles for God is Lord, a translation of Adonai. There is yet another name which is particularly assigned to God as His special or proper name, that is, the four letters YHWH (Exodus 3:14 and Isaiah 42:8). This name has not been pronounced by the Jews because of reverence for the great sacredness of the divine name. Therefore, it has been consistently translated LORD. The only exception to this translation of YHWH is when it occurs in immediate proximity to the word Lord, that is, Adonai. In that case it is regularly translated GOD in order to avoid confusion. It is known that for many years YHWH has been transliterated as Yahweh, however no complete certainty attaches to this pronunciation."

New English Translation - Preface
"The translation of the Divine Name... This was rendered traditionally as “Jehovah” in the King James Version, but it is generally recognized that this represents a combination of the consonants of the tetragrammaton, YHWH, and the vowels from a completely different Hebrew word, adonai (“master”), which were substituted by the Masoretes so that pronunciation of the Divine Name could be avoided: whenever YHWH appeared in the text, the presence of the vowels from the word adonai signaled to the reader that the word adonai was to be pronounced instead... In spite of this, however, the Committee eventually decided to follow the usage of most English translations and render the Divine Name as “LORD” in small caps. Thus the frequent combination Yahweh elohim is rendered as LORD God...Other combinations like Yahweh Sebaoth, traditionally rendered “Lord of Hosts,” have been translated either as “Sovereign Lord” or “the Lord who leads armies” depending on the context. Such instances are typically indicated by a translator’s note [tn]."
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#30
Stunned..........

You aren't the only one who saw some flags about that translation. This Church of Christ saw something, too.

The Divine Name
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#31
cont.

New International Version - Preface
"In regard to the divine name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammaton, the translators adopted the device used in most English versions...of rendering that name as "LORD" in capital letters to distinguish it from adonai, another Hebrew word rendered "Lord" for which small letters are used."

New King James Version (Holman) - Preface
"The covenant name of God was usually translated from the Hebrew word as LORD or GOD, using capital letters as shown, as in the King James Version. This convention is also maintained in the New King James Version when the Old Testament is quoted in the New."

New King James Version (Biblica) - Preface
"The covenant name of God was usually translated from the Hebrew word as "LORD" or "GOD", using capital letters as shown, as in the King James Old Testament. This tradition is maintained. In the present edition the name is so capitalized whenever the covenant name is quoted in the New Testament from a passage in the Old Testament."

New Living Translation - Preface
"Since the Hebrew lunar calendar fluctuates from year to year in relation to the solar calendar used today, we have translated Hebrew dates in a way that communicates with our modern readership. It was clear that we could not use the names of the Hebrew months, such as Abib, which are meaningless to the modern reader...For the sake of clarity, we have maintained lexical consistency in areas such as divine names...All appearances of ’el, ’elohim, or ’eloah have been translated “God,” except where the context demands the translation “god(s).” We have rendered the tetragrammaton (YHWH) consistently as “the Lord,” utilizing a form with small capitals that is common among English translations. This will distinguish it from the name ’adonai, which we render “Lord.” When ’adonai and YHWH appear in conjunction, we have rendered it “Sovereign Lord.” This also distinguishes ’adonai YHWH from cases where YHWH appears with ’elohim, which is rendered “Lord God.” When YH (the short form of YHWH) and YHWH appear together, we have rendered it “Lord God.” The Hebrew word ’adon is rendered “lord,” or “master,” or sometimes “sir.”

New Revised Standard Version - Preface
"Careful readers will notice that here and there in the Old Testament the word Lord (or in certain cases God) is printed in capital letters. This represents the traditional manner in English versions of rendering the Divine Name, the "Tetragrammaton" (see the notes on Exodus 3.14, 15), following the precedent of the ancient Greek and Latin translators and the long established practice in the reading of the Hebrew Scriptures in the synagogue. While it is almost if not quite certain that the Name was originally pronounced "Yahweh," this pronunciation was not indicated when the Masoretes added vowel sounds to the consonantal Hebrew text. To the four consonants YHWH of the Name, which had come to be regarded as too sacred to be pronounced, they attached vowel signs indicating that in its place should be read the Hebrew word Adonai meaning "Lord" (or Elohim meaning "God"). Ancient Greek translators employed the word Kyrios ("Lord") for the Name. The Vulgate likewise used the Latin word Dominus ("Lord"). The form "Jehovah" is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. Although the American Standard Version (1901) had used "Jehovah" to render the Tetragrammaton (the sound of Y being represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin), for two reasons the Committees that produced the RSV and the NRSV returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version. (1) The word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew. (2) The use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom the true God had to be distinguished, began to be discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church."

Revised English Bible - Introduction to the Old Testament
"The divine name (YHWH in Hebrew characters) was probably pronounced 'Yahweh', but the name was regarded as ineffable, too sacred to be pronounced."

Revised Standard Version - Preface
"A major departure from the practice of the American Standard Version is the rendering of the Divine Name, the "Tetragrammaton." The American Standard Version used the term "Jehovah"; the King James Version had employed this in four places, but everywhere else, except in three cases where it was employed as part of a proper name, used the English word LORD (or in certain cases GOD) printed in capitals. The present revision returns to the procedure of the King James Version, which follows the precedent of the ancient Greek and Latin translators and the long established practice in the reading of the Hebrew scriptures in the synagogue."

Today's English Version - Preface
" Following an ancient tradition...begun by the first translation of the Hebrew Scriptures (the Septuagint) and followed by the vast majority of English translations, the distinctive Hebrew name for God (usually transliterated Jehovah or Yahweh), is in this translation represented by "LORD." When Adonai, normally translated "Lord," occurs preposed to Yahweh, the combination is rendered by the phrase "Sovereign LORD."
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I call Him by His name, I see no problem with that, and no reason for someone to accuse, the pharisees fobode speaking His name, I don't follow them or their practices I follow YHWH.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - ADONAI
a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay): A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton YHWH; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay," (Lord). Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "YHWH (YHWH)."

The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Kiddushin, page 71a
...R. Abina opposed [two verses]: It is written, 'this is my name'; but it is also written, 'and this is my memorial'?__The Holy One, blessed be He, said: I am not called as I am written: I am written with yod he, but I am read, alef daleth.7. The Tetragrammaton is yod he waw he (YHWH); but it is read adonai= alef daleth nun yod (ADNY)...

The Name YHWH was removed at least 6,823 times and replaced with LORD or GOD. You can tell where it was because ALL the letters are capital where YHWH was. The Masorites added vowel points to the Hebrew manuscripts (not in the "J" writings," (Called J (Y) for it's use of YHWH), but in the next oldest, the "E" writings (for it's use of Elohim). The vowel points replaced YHWH's Name with Adonai = Lord and Elohim = God(s).It is forbidden by YHWH to hide His Name by the way. However as we seen in the Talmud, to the Rabbis this is of no effect: "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice." Then we come to modern times when this false practice is still used, many Bible prefaces literally say, "this tradition is still used".

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of YHWH by your traditions?"

Talmud - Mas. Yoma 39b
His brethren [that year] the priests forbore to mention the Ineffable Name (YHWH) in pronouncing the [priestly] blessing.4 Our Rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-coloured strap become white/"

Numbers 6:23-27, "Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying; This is how you are to bless the children of Israyl. Say to them; YHWH BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU. YHWH MAKE HIS FACE SHINE UPON YOU AND BE MERCIFUL TO YOU. YHWH LIFT UP HIS COUNTENANCE UPON YOU, AND GIVE YOU PEACE. So they will put MY NAME on the children of Israyl, and I will bless them."

Yeremyah 2:8, "The priests did not ask; Where is YHWH? Those who deal with the Law did not know Me! The pastors also transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied in the name of Baal, and walked after things of worthlessness"

Psalm 103:1, "Bless You YHWH, O our souls! And all that is within us bless Your holy Name!"

Psalm 105:1, "Give thanks to YHWH! Call upon His Name! Make known what He has done among the nations!"

Zephanyah 3:9, "Yes, at that time I will return to the peoples a pure language, so that all of them may call on the Name of YHWH, and serve Him with one accord."

and no im not better than anyone, that nonsense comes from people who want to accuse those who use His name What does this have to do at all with the topic? Is it a salvational issue? IAm I not a part or the curch if I beleive either way? So in truth I can not say for sure, as there are veses that seem tobe for either understanding. Honestly to me this seems like a attempt to find reason to thorw stones.

Psalm 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"2, "יהוה sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!"3, "Your people volunteer in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth!"4, "יהוה has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.”"5, "יהוה at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath."6, "He judges among the nations, He shall fill the nations with dead bodies, He shall crush the Head over the mighty earth!"7, "He drinks of the stream by the wayside, Therefore He does lift up the head!"

Revelation 21:23
New International Version
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

New Living Translation
And the city has no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its light.

English Standard Version
And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

Berean Study Bible
And the city has no need for sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Berean Literal Bible
And the city has no need of the sun, nor of the moon, that they should shine in it; for the glory of God enlightened it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

New American Standard Bible
And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

King James Bible
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 21:23, “And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, to shine in it, for the esteem of Yah lightened it, and the Lamb is its lamp.”

The trinity verse weas added years after and is a forgery:
Proper and original text from the 1[SUP]st [/SUP]century:

1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three which testify: The Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three are of one accord."

Altered text from the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century:1 John/Yahanan 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

1 John 5:7-8, “Because there are three who bear witness: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement."

Comma Johanneum refers to a short clause in John 5:7-8 in the Latin Vulgate text which was transmitted since the Early Middle Ages. It was later included in the Textus Receptus Greek in support of trinity doctrine. The comma does not appear in the older Greek text. The ‘comma’ is displayed below in italics.

v.7 Because there are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

v.8 And there are three that bear witness in earth the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.

1 John 5:7 Parallel Verses

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

New American Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

International Standard Version
For there are three witnesses —

NET Bible
For there are three that testify,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
There are three witnesses:

Jubilee Bible 2000
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

King James 2000 Bible
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.

American King James Version
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

American Standard Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

Darby Bible Translation
For they that bear witness are three:

English Revised Version
And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.

Weymouth New Testament
For there are three that give testimony, the Spirit, the water, and the blood;

World English Bible
For there are three who testify:

Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, the three, are one;

Verses 5:7-8 -- In the King James Version and later renditions of the Latin Vulgate, the received Greek and Latin texts include the words: “ ...In heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth... ”. This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any authentic Greek manuscript written earlier than the Fifteenth Century of this current era. It does not appear in any of the oldest Greek manuscripts; neither does it even appear in the earliest Latin translations. This text is not cited by any of the Greek or early Latin writers, even when the subject they wrote of would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, Page 803, The Jerusalem Bible, New Testament, Page 419. Other scholars and researchers have frankly admitted that these words are a deliberate forgery that was never a part of the original inspired Holy Scriptures.

Yet there are valid and true (not forged) verses that they seem to be the same) To fully quantify YHWH is impossible, if we look at Yahshua's name we see He is YWHH's Salvation or YHWH has saved:

“Jesus” is word #G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous') n/p., 1. (meaning) He is Salvation, Yahweh saves (i.e. the Savior)., 2. (person) Jesus (i.e. Yeshua, Yehoshua), the name of our Lord, also called the Last Adam., 3. (person) Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) an Israelite, the servant and successor of Moses., 4. (person) Jeshua, also called Justus, an Israelite, a coworker with Paul., 5. (NOTE) (“Jesus” is a valid English transliteration, coming from Ancient Hebrew to Koine Greek (via the Septuagint) to Latin to Old English to Modern English. It is completely acceptable to God (Yahweh) for us call upon the Savior's name as “Jesus,” or “Iesous,” or “Yeshua,” or even “Yesu” as in Christian Arabic or in the Fijian Islands, et al. God prepared for all nations to be able to trust in the Savior and to call upon his name by preparing a language dialect for international use: the Hebraic-Koine Greek. Thus, technically and formally, the pronunciation “Iesous” was intentionally established by the Savior as the common basis for Jewish and Gentile acknowledgment of his Redemption and Salvation, going forth as needed into every tribe, native tongue, people, and nation. “Yeshua” is of course delightfully acceptable to him, when it is not used as an exclusionary name. Love edifies)., 6. (NOTE) (Revelation 3:12)., [of Hebrew origin (H3442 as the shortened form of H3091)], KJV: Jesus, Root(s): H3442, See also: H3091

Root word of Jesus” is word #H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l., 1. he will save., 2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel., [for H3091], KJV: Jeshua. , Root(s): H3091

Root word of Jesus” is word #H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p., יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah), 1. Yahweh-saved.2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader., [from H3068 and H3467], KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua., Root(s): H3068, H3467, Compare: H1954, H3442

The original name s are beautiful IMO, they are have really awesom meanings not conveyed in the common transliteraltions/versions, some examples:

John /Yowchanan
Yahweh-favored.

Matthew/MattithYah
gift of Yah.

Isaiah/Ysha`Yah
Yah has saved

Jeremiah/YirmYah
Yah will be raised.

Zachariah/ZrachYah
Yah has risen

Hezekiah/ChizqiYah
strengthened of Yah.

Micah/MiykaYah
who (is) like Yah?

Malachi/Mal'akiy
messenger of Yah

Every name has meaning in it original form
Let your yes be yes and your no be no or else state that you are uncertain and cannot affirm either way.
​is Jesus God?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#33
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Kings 22:5-7, “5 And Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, “Inquire first for the word of the Lord (#H3068-YHWH).” 6 Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said to them, “Shall I go to battle against Ramoth-gilead, or shall I refrain?” And they said, “Go up, for the Lord (#H136-Adonay) will give it into the hand of the king.” 7 But Jehoshaphat said, “Is there not here another prophet of the Lord (#H3068-YHWH) of whom we may inquire?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Kings 22:5-7, “Then Yahshaphat said to the king of Israyl; But inquire this day for the counsel and advice of YHWH (#H3068-YHWH). So the king of Israyl assembled together the prophets--about four hundred men, and asked them; Shall I go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain? They all answered him: Go up! The Lord (#H136-Adonay), will deliver it into the hands of the king! But Yahshaphat asked; Is there no longer a prophet of YHWH (#H3068-YHWH) here, so we may inquire of Him?”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Kings 22:5-7, “And Yehoshaphat said to the sovereign of Yisra’yl, “Please, first inquire for the word of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](#H3068-YHWH), "And the sovereign of Yisra’yl gathered the prophets, about four hundred men, and said to them, “Do I go against Ramoth Gil‛aḏ to battle, or do I refrain?” And they said, “Go up, for The Lord (#H136-Adonay) does give it into the hand of the sovereign. And Yehoshaphat said, “Is there not here a prophet of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](#H3068-YHWH), that we might inquire of Him?[/FONT]
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#34
Roman authors mentioned a number of tribes they called Germani—the tribes did not themselves use the term. ... Germani (for the people) and Germania (for the area where they lived) became the common Latin words for Germans and Germany. Germans call themselves Deutsche (living in Deutschland).

I wonder how many Americans use the "correct" name when referring to Germany?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#35
I call Him by His name, I see no problem with that, and no reason for someone to accuse, the pharisees fobode speaking His name, I don't follow them or their practices I follow YHWH.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia - ADONAI
a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay): A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton YHWH; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay," (Lord). Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "YHWH (YHWH)."

The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Kiddushin, page 71a
...R. Abina opposed [two verses]: It is written, 'this is my name'; but it is also written, 'and this is my memorial'?__The Holy One, blessed be He, said: I am not called as I am written: I am written with yod he, but I am read, alef daleth.7. The Tetragrammaton is yod he waw he (YHWH); but it is read adonai= alef daleth nun yod (ADNY)...
Your trying to be as much Jewish as possible darkened your mind.

How can you even post something from Talmud together with Scriptures?

Talmud is a Jewish work full of blasphemy and anti-christian attacks.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#37
Let your yes be yes and your no be no or else state that you are uncertain and cannot affirm either way.
​is Jesus God?
I answered that in the post you quoted, you must not have actually read it all.

Also why are you being an inquisitor? If one believes one way or the other is it a salvational issue? and if you see it to be, show me in Scripture please.

How did this false claims thread (because people that only read your first post and ont read on may take that first post as fact)and "confusing name" thread come to this? was this an attempt to find reason to throw stones? Im I "anathama" is I do not believe the exact same way as you? This is rather strange, I see continually myself getting accused and spoken badly of because I use their real names, yet I have said to none they are wrong, bad, disrespectful or anything similar to anyone else over this matter. I haer stuuf like you think your better, your accusing (even though I have not a single time) and then the accusations come at me, and Im not talking about you but 3 times this week I have had people tell me Im disrespectful for using Yahshua, when Yahshua means YHWH's has saved, to me beautiful and His true name, why am I downgraded for this?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#38
Your trying to be as much Jewish as possible darkened your mind.

How can you even post something from Talmud together with Scriptures?

Talmud is a Jewish work full of blasphemy and anti-christian attacks.
yes the talmud is very very evil, and I am highlight its evil...and im pointing out how they transgress YHWH's word and you attack me as if im with them? Im pointing out how they forbade the use of His name on threat of death even... This is too much.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O YHWH, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is YHWH!" [/FONT]
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
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#39
Roman authors mentioned a number of tribes they called Germani—the tribes did not themselves use the term. ... Germani (for the people) and Germania (for the area where they lived) became the common Latin words for Germans and Germany. Germans call themselves Deutsche (living in Deutschland).

I wonder how many Americans use the "correct" name when referring to Germany?
SO is it wrong the I call YHWH by YHWH?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 42:8, "I am YHWH, that is MY NAME; and My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 69:30, “I praise the Name of the Mighty One with a song, and I magnify Him with thanksgiving.”[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#40
How is it an attackable offence to use HIs name?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 116:13, "We will take the cup of salvation, and we will call upon Your Name, O YHWH."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O YHWH, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is YHWH!"[/FONT]