The Sign Of Jonah

[garee]

Friend, Jesus did not say it would be 3 days and 3 nights from the time he died to his resurrection--
but from the time He would be in the heart of the earth, the tomb---and He fulfilled it to the minute---because HIS Word is Truth !

The phrase "heart of the earth" I would think it would have to be defined. I think if He wan't to convey in the grave or tomb he would of used those worlds. And if we compare it to the parable in Jonas we should take into account that Jonas was not dead but suffered three days.

When did the work of spiritual suffering begin? Or when did he first start pouring out His Spirit on flesh according to the promise?.

 

[oldhermit]

What is it that makes people resist and cling to the friday theory??

Because of the pattern laid out in Lev 23 concerning the sacrifices of the Passover lamb and the consequent offering of first fruits. Jesus is both offerings.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at evening is the LORD'S Passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Then on the day following the Sabbath, which would have been the 16th of Nissan, they were to bring the offering of first-fruits.

The death and resurrection of Jesus had to follow this precise pattern. Since, as scripture tells us, he was raised on the first day of the week, this means that day had to be the 16th day of Nissan. This means that the Sabbath was the 15th of Nissan and Friday was the 14th of Nissan. This was the day he was slain and buried.

 

[garee]

sorry duplicate

 

[beta]

Let is suppose for a moment that he had risen as early as the very beginning of the first day of the week which would have been just after sunset. If this is the case, then he would have been in the tomb longer than 72 hours.

Jesus he was placed in the tomb probably no earlier than five or five thirty pm because he died at 3:00 pm and let us say that it took perhaps two hours for them to remove the body from the cross, take it home, and complete the preparations for burial, and have him in the tomb by 5:00 pm before the Sabbath began. We know this because the women still had time to prepare additional spices before the Sabbath began. If he then rose at the very beginning of the first day of the week, then he was in the tomb for more than 72 hours.

No He would not have been in the tomb longer than 72 hours, because He would have had to be buried AFTER sunset wed in order to rise after sunset sat.

The women did not buy and prepare the spices before Jesus was buried, they did so 2 days later on the frid/prep day for the weekly sabbath. Preparing ointment from scratch is not something done in an hour, I know, having worked for a Herbalist.

 

[oldhermit]

The context of Leviticus 23 is the Passover sacrifice. This was to ALWAYS be observed on the 14th day of Nissan. Clearly, as John 19:31 tells us, the Sabbath that was approaching in connection with the death of Jesus was a High Sabbath. Now, no matter how one may wish to define this it cannot be denied that it fell on the same day as the weekly Sabbath. We know this because the day of resurrection was the first day of the week following the Sabbath. This can only mean that the death of Jesus as the Passover sacrifice took place on Friday the 14 day of Nissan which was the day of sacrifice.

 

[oldhermit]

No He would not have been in the tomb longer than 72 hours, because He would have had to be buried AFTER sunset wed in order to rise after sunset sat.

The women did not buy and prepare the spices before Jesus was buried, they did so 2 days later on the frid/prep day for the weekly sabbath. Preparing ointment from scratch is not something done in an hour, I know, having worked for a Herbalist.

The Sabbath was not two days after Jesus' death. The Sabbath was the very next day after his death. John 19:31 confirms this. "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

 

[beta]

There is nothing wrong with the grammar of the translation of this verse. In fact, it is extraordinarily precise.

Ἀναστὰς δὲ πρωῒ πρώτῃ σαββάτου
Literally, "Having risen however, the first day of the week."

Why the ''however ? it splits the sentence to refer to two different things, so it is not saying He rose on the first day of the week....rather 'having risen...then goes on to what happened the first day .....

seems you are determined to make Jesus a liar as did the jews of His day.

 

[oldhermit]

Why the ''however ? it splits the sentence to refer to two different things, so it is not saying He rose on the first day of the week....rather 'having risen...then goes on to what happened the first day .....

seems you are determined to make Jesus a liar as did the jews of His day.

LOL. If you are familiar with the Greek then you know this is a nonsense statement. If the translation of 'however' is a problem for you then try the word 'indeed.' This is equally legitimate and equally literal for the word δὲ.

 

[beta]

The Sabbath was not two days after Jesus' death. The Sabbath was the very next day after his death. John 19:31 confirms this. "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

yes there was a Sabbath/high day after Jesus died, but it was not the weekly sabbath.
Every Sabbath, even the 'Annual ones have a preparation day and it does not have to be a friday. Annual Sabbaths can fall any day of the week, that is why some weeks have 2 Sabbaths.

 

[oldhermit]

yes there was a Sabbath/high day after Jesus died, but it was not the weekly sabbath.
Every Sabbath, even the 'Annual ones have a preparation day and it does not have to be a friday. Annual Sabbaths can fall any day of the week, that is why some weeks have 2 Sabbaths.

Then why is the next day following this Sabbath called the first day of the week?

 

[beta]

LOL. If you are familiar with the Greek then you know this is a nonsense statement. If the translation of 'however' is a problem for you then try the word 'indeed.' This is equally legitimate and equally literal for the word δὲ.

I am not going to fall out over a word when there is plenty scriptural evidence for Jesus' prediction.

You don't believe what JESUS says you are not likely to believe me !

 

[beta]

Then why is the next day following this Sabbath called the first day of the week?

can you point me to a scripture ?
The day after the high day or Sabbath is friday, the weekly prep day.

 

[oldhermit]

I am not going to fall out over a word when there is plenty scriptural evidence for Jesus' prediction.

You don't believe what JESUS says you are not likely to believe me !

Mam, words have meaning. Truth is always in the grammatical structure of the text. There is a reason the Holy Spirit uses language in the exact way he does.

Of course I believe what Jesus said. I just think you misunderstand what he said. This line of reasoning attempts to define terms in such a way that conflict with Jesus' own explanation and orchestrates a time line to satisfy a narrow definition of the three days and three nights. Such a time line will not agree with that which is painstaking laid out by Luke. Nor will it conform to the Passover and first-fruit offering of Lev 23 that was the pattern for the death and resurrection of Jesus. There is no possible way you can get 72 hours in the tomb from any of these four narratives. It is simply impossible.

 

[oldhermit]

can you point me to a scripture ?
The day after the high day or Sabbath is friday, the weekly prep day.

You already know this. Jesus died on the evening before the Sabbath. He was in the tomb on the Sabbath. He rose the very early the next day on the first day of the week.

 

[beta]

You already know this. Jesus died on the evening before the Sabbath. He was in the tomb on the Sabbath. He rose the very early the next day on the first day of the week.

I'll try once more, but fear it will be a waste of time.
Yes Jesus died on the day of preparation and was placed in the tomb at the setting of the sun the same day.(do you need scripture ?)
The next day was the 1st day of unl bread or high day or sabbath (annual)
The following day was friday or weekly prep day when the women bought spices and prepared ointments,then
rested the next day weekly sabbath per commandment .
sunday very early while still dark (after sunset at start of new day) Jesus had already risen.

I have tried to keep it simple but if you follow your reasoning we will just have to disagree and leave it there.

 

[oldhermit]

I'll try once more, but fear it will be a waste of time.
Yes Jesus died on the day of preparation and was placed in the tomb at the setting of the sun the same day.(do you need scripture ?)
The next day was the 1st day of unl bread or high day or sabbath (annual)
The following day was friday or weekly prep day when the women bought spices and prepared ointments,then
rested the next day weekly sabbath per commandment .
sunday very early while still dark (after sunset at start of new day) Jesus had already risen.

I have tried to keep it simple but if you follow your reasoning we will just have to disagree and leave it there.

Mam, I do apologize, but I am going to have to be off line for a while. Something has come up that requires my immediate attention. I shall try to be back on line sometime this afternoon.

 

[oldhermit]

I'll try once more, but fear it will be a waste of time.
Yes Jesus died on the day of preparation and was placed in the tomb at the setting of the sun the same day.(do you need scripture ?)
The next day was the 1st day of unl bread or high day or sabbath (annual)
The following day was friday or weekly prep day when the women bought spices and prepared ointments,then
rested the next day weekly sabbath per commandment .
sunday very early while still dark (after sunset at start of new day) Jesus had already risen.

I have tried to keep it simple but if you follow your reasoning we will just have to disagree and leave it there.

What you are missing is that the day of preparation and Passover were on Friday. This was the same day as the crucifixion and the burial. Simply read Luke's time line. The following day was not Friday, it was Saturday. You are still going to have to demonstrate from the text that there was a two day gap between the women's preparing of the spices and the day of resurrection. I need passages that can confirm this.



Yes, I agree that it was very early Sunday morning while it was still dark according to John 20:1.

 

[oldhermit]

He was buried just before sunset on Wednesday and was raised from the dead Saturday sunset.. Count the days 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb..

Wednesday Night: 1st Night
Thursday Day: 1st Day 500
Thursday Night: 2nd Night
Friday Day: 2nd Day 500
Friday Night: 3rd Night
Saturday Day: 3rd Day 500

3 Nights and 3 Days in the earth..

This cannot work mathematically. We know from scripture that he died at 3:00 pm and factoring in the time required to prepare the body for burial and then place him in the tomb, perhaps about two hours this would place the actual time of the burial at about 5:00 pm. We also know that he was raised on the first day of the week sometime between after sundown at the beginning of the first day of the week and dawn of that same morning. There is no way this can translate into 72 hours. For this scenario to work mathematically, he would have to have risen at 500 pm on Saturday which would have been on the Sabbath.

 

[Adstar]

Because of the pattern laid out in Lev 23 concerning the sacrifices of the Passover lamb and the consequent offering of first fruits. Jesus is both offerings.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at evening is the LORD'S Passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Then on the day following the Sabbath, which would have been the 16th of Nissan, they were to bring the offering of first-fruits.

The death and resurrection of Jesus had to follow this precise pattern. Since, as scripture tells us, he was raised on the first day of the week, this means that day had to be the 16th day of Nissan.

Why? ... The 14th of the month could be any day of the week depending on what day of the week it fell... Do you think that the passover must always fall on a friday each year? Does Christmas always fall on the same day each and every year.. No.. Do you think that the first day of unleavened bread must always fall on a weekly Sabbath day??? Is that what your mind is thinking?

 

[Adstar]

Because of the pattern laid out in Lev 23 concerning the sacrifices of the Passover lamb and the consequent offering of first fruits. Jesus is both offerings.

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at evening is the LORD'S Passover.
Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Then on the day following the Sabbath, which would have been the 16th of Nissan, they were to bring the offering of first-fruits.

The death and resurrection of Jesus had to follow this precise pattern. Since, as scripture tells us, he was raised on the first day of the week, this means that day had to be the 16th day of Nissan. This means that the Sabbath was the 15th of Nissan and Friday was the 14th of Nissan. This was the day he was slain and buried.

Follow the scriptures lets read it all as it appreas in scripture..

Leviticus 23:KJV
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

So in the above scripture it says that during the 7days of the feast of unleavened bread a burn't offering must be made every day.. It says nothing about any first fruits It just says that a burn't offering must be made.. It does not even say that all people must make burn't offerings it may be that only the priest in the temple needed to make a burn't offering.. So we continue reading the scriptures and God declares that another offering must be made.. A different one:::



9 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them,

When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall

bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before

the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

And the Lord spake unto moses.. meaning that this is a seperate issue a seperate teaching not realted to the unleaved bread burnt offerings... This offering is the first fruitsand it has to be done after the Sabbath . that being a seventh day Sabbath.. So there is no problem if you understand that the two are different offerings.. The one that happens on every day of the feast of unleavened bread and the first fruit offering that only happens once on the first day after the weekly Sabbath