The Snake from The Garden

[Dagallen]

The serpent in Genesis 3 there is no creature that crawls or move in it's belly and there is no 4 legs creatures in Genesis 3. Still looking !

 

[oldhermit]

Yes, man is fashioned to attain life ever after in Jesus Christ, Who is the light and life of men. Yes, he has a beginning and therefore is not eternal, for eternal has no beginning in our understanding, existing from everlasting to everlasting, as it were, which applies only to God.

But the question was more one addressing the notion that man's soul cannot die, as if God is powerless to extinguish it from His creation, even though Scripture explicitly states that God can destroy the soul. Jesus told us to fear the One Who can destroy both body and soul. People often speak as if the soul cannot die no matter what, in fact they say it is immortal, even though Scripture explicitly says only God is immortal; they say it even while admitting that when the body is dead, the soul lives on as if it were not tied to the body, which means they are overlooking the fact that man became a living soul when the breath of life entered the physical elements of man.

Do not confuse death with ceasing to exist. Scripture NEVER speaks of death in this way. Scripture always represents death as a separation. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death is the separation of the soul from
God. This does not mean that soul ceases to exist. All humanity will experience eternity in either heaven or hell, but none will cease to exist.

 

[oldhermit]

Another question, God created man in His image and in His likeness, what does that really mean ?

The “Let us make...” is unique from all other acts of creation. This stands in contrast to the simple “Let there be...” events. This represents a higher level of created being. God himself becomes the blueprint for humanity. God follows the established creation principle. Everything in creation is charges to reproduce after its own kind. God utilizes this same principle in the creation of man. He creates a being that is like himself – an extension of himself. Man is of the same image/likeness and bears the same nature as his Creator. This of course begs the question, “How is man in the image of God?” To answer this we must first learn from scripture what constitutes the 'image' of God.

The nature of God must be understood as bi-cameral. Anything that is bi-cameral is two chambered. I have selected this term because I believe it most aptly describes how scripture portrays the essence and character of God.

1. Essence is what I regard as signature traits. These traits qualify God as God. Intrinsically, the essence of God is:

* Spirit * Ever-present * Immortal
* Holy * Eternal * Self-existing
* All-powerful * Invisible * Self-sustaining
* All-knowing * Unified * Transcendent

2. The character of God is what I would regard as extended attributes that define His moral integrity. The character of God is:

* Holy * Good * Faithful * Patient
* Righteous * Honest * Loving
* Just * Fair * Forgiving
* Pure * Consistent * Merciful

These are some of the qualities we find ascribed to God in scripture. Every attribute of essence and character that scripture assigns to God are assigned also to man as well. It must be understood that image and likeness does not relate to equality. As they relate to man they only differ in degree. “And God saw that it was very good.”

 

[oldhermit]

If anyone has further questions please feel free to ask and I will try to address them tomorrow. I am having signal strength issues at present.

 

[Dagallen]

I say, the body of flesh became a living soul, so how did the flesh become a living soul ? Because God gave the flesh soul a spiritual heart, as the soul and flesh are one and shall die when the spirit rises, as the soul itself is not immortal but the spiritual heart of the soul is immortal, as the laws of God is written in the spiritual heart.

 

[oldethennew]

Yes, but the fundamental question is not what man will decide to do but what episemological foundation will he decide to use to make such a decision. What does he ultimately rely on to tell him what is true about his world. This why the tree is there.

=========================================

we can ONLY rely on our God Given Faith, that our Holy Saviour decides to give us on an individual basis,
when and where, like it or not...it's His MIND/SPIRIT and we can not access it at our will...
only He will impart to us what He wills, when He wills, and we have no choice but to comply and
accept Him at His Word, or NOT...

 

[prove-all]

Do not confuse death with ceasing to exist.
Scripture NEVER speaks of death in this way. .

[h=3]Malachi 4:3 (KJV)[/h]

And ye shall tread down the wicked;

for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,

saith the Lord of hosts.​

 

[Magenta]

Malachi 4:3 (KJV)

And ye shall tread down the wicked;
for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,
saith the Lord of hosts.​

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and
this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to
pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:54-57

 

[Adstar]

Was it literally a snake, or was it something else?

Please, if you can, document your answer from the Word.

Thank You!

Well the story states that the ""snake"" did not lose it's legs until after it deceived Eve.. Soooo when it decieved Eve it technically was not a snake yet...

But on a theological level what ever beast it was it was possessed by satan at the time..

But anyway the Book of Revelation ( which reveals a lot thus it is called the Book of Revelation) wraps things up and identifies the names and descriptions of satan in one verse..

Revelation 20 KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold onthe dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.


That old serpent was the serpent in the garden of Eden..

 

[samuel23]

As humans we want all the loose ends to be tied up to our satisfaction, however there many things in the scriptures that seem to go in different directions. When Jesus spoke of the people of Israel who ate the manna He said, that they ate the manna and they are dead. He did not say their body died and their soul was alive somewhere, He said that they are dead. God said to Adam, dust you are and to dust you shall return, He did not say your body will die and your soul will continue to live. On the other hand, the rich man who died went to hell and existed in torment. I really do not know, I find it hard to make the popular statement that humans will live forever no matter where they go because the lake of fire is called the second death. The bible says that humans can die and the bible says that angels cannot die. Most folks believe that humans will be tormented in the lake of fire forever...I am not sure. Death is destroyed in the lake of fire which means it exists no more, hell is destroyed in the lake of fire and that means it exists no more.

 

[Magenta]

As humans we want all the loose ends to be tied up to our satisfaction, however there many things in the scriptures that seem to go in different directions. When Jesus spoke of the people of Israel who ate the manna He said, that they ate the manna and they are dead. He did not say their body died and their soul was alive somewhere, He said that they are dead. God said to Adam, dust you are and to dust you shall return, He did not say your body will die and your soul will continue to live. On the other hand, the rich man who died went to hell and existed in torment. I really do not know, I find it hard to make the popular statement that humans will live forever no matter where they go because the lake of fire is called the second death. The bible says that humans can die and the bible says that angels cannot die. Most folks believe that humans will be tormented in the lake of fire forever...I am not sure. Death is destroyed in the lake of fire which means it exists no more, hell is destroyed in the lake of fire and that means it exists no more.

Where does the Bible say that angels cannot die? Just curious. I do however find it baffling that people seem to purport this idea that God is powerless to destroy something just because He created it. Also, Scripture does say that only God is immortal. Paul also explicitly says that we put on immortality. Do you know when that happens? It is after the resurrection and judgement of all. That tells me that we are not immortal as people assume and promote. Those who are to go into the Lake of Fire do not put on immortality. Life ever after is attained only through faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ upon the cross. If anything, that should be crystal clear to you

 

[breno785au]

Lol some of the posts I've read in this thread can be summed up in three words, 'i don't know'.

 

[garee]

a. Could he simply have been possessed by Satan? Possibly.

Deceived by Satan who has no form. It was that form(serpent) in which he puts his words that drew Adam and Eve away from the voice of God who also has no form . (lust of the eye ,which produce the pride of life).

Was Baalams ass possessed by the Holy Spirit, same thing?

b. Was he himself also tempted? This seems more plausible. For temptation to have any power, there must be the illusion of satisfying some desire. If so, what could he have hoped to gain by the fall of man?

Its what he thinks he had to gain. God had other plans.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

He is the god of this world and is still drawing away men by seducing them walking by sight..

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

 

[tanakh]

Perhaps back then before the world was marred from sin - the animals could speak...maybe not with the speech we use but the could communicate with Adam Eve some how? Obviously Eve wasn't shocked when a serpent spoke to her.

If it was us you think we would be shocked that an animal could talk and we would say " Do you know Francis the talking mule? - he talks too"

( obviously I have no scripture for it - it doesn't seem to be much of a priority with the Lord right now in this present age )


[video=youtube;cX_tE0M3ZCI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX_tE0M3ZCI[/video]

was Francis related to Ed the talking Horse? Then there was the Elephant Man and Billy the Kid. The snake represents
Sin and satan who is called The old Serpent in Revelation.

 

[Dagallen]

The story of Adam and Eve, the word snake is not there, it simply uses the word serpent and people assume the means snake, again it has nothing to do with a snake, Satan is like that of a snake, cunning and speaks with a forked tongue, as a snake has a forked tongue, as Satan knows the knowledge of good and evil, he speaks both, that he might deceive mankind, and he has done that, to the point people really believe that he was a talking snake.

 

[BeyondET]

The story of Adam and Eve, the word snake is not there, it simply uses the word serpent and people assume the means snake, again it has nothing to do with a snake, Satan is like that of a snake, cunning and speaks with a forked tongue, as a snake has a forked tongue, as Satan knows the knowledge of good and evil, he speaks both, that he might deceive mankind, and he has done that, to the point people really believe that he was a talking snake.

Hmm, nothing to do with a snake, yet you speak of a fork tongue representing satan, jk lol.. seriously your are correct the bible just says serpent could have been a lizard a worm, the tree could have been near water and a sea serpent appeared a eel etc..

The presence of a long, two-pointed, forked tongue helps you identify snakes. Snakes depend on their tongue for a great deal of information. They do not smell through their nostrils like mammals, rather they smell using their tongue to collect scents and then insert them into the roof of their mouth, where lies the Jacobson's organ. This organ helps interpret the different scents and guides snakes to potential food or mates, as well as away from potential danger. The tongue of a snake is not harmful.

 

[BeyondET]

What I find interesting about the story is there is two levels of temptation that happen.

The first was direct contact between the serpent and Eve, the serpent was right in her face speaking to her..
The second being Eve told Adam about what the serpent said, a indirect temptation.

Could Adam have lusted after Eve and eat the friut also, I'm sure people have heard of folks that stay with people because of the sex or money etc..

or was he madly in love with Eve and placed Eve first before God. Because IMO in life God should be above all people in our listening and understanding of things spiritually and physically, even your spouses..

Or did in his mind found the friut interesting as well..

 

[BeyondET]

IMO,,,

God will not send a person down a rocky road without the person's approval, though if a person finds themselves on a rocky road it's without God approval...

 

[oldhermit]

Deceived by Satan who has no form. It was that form(serpent) in which he puts his words that drew Adam and Eve away from the voice of God who also has no form . (lust of the eye ,which produce the pride of life).

Was Baalams ass possessed by the Holy Spirit, same thing?



Its what he thinks he had to gain. God had other plans.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

He is the god of this world and is still drawing away men by seducing them walking by sight..

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

These were merely suppositions on my part that do not appear in the text. I just thought they were interesting possibilities. Incidentally, 2Cor 4:4 to which you allude is not talking about Satan. Paul is drawing from Isaiah 44:18 that speaks of how God deals with an idolatrous generation. God is the only God of this world and he is the one who blinds the eyes of the wicked who refuse to hear him. Paul does however depict Satan as the prince of the power of the air in Eph. 2:2.

 

[oldhermit]

Malachi 4:3 (KJV)

And ye shall tread down the wicked;

for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this,

saith the Lord of hosts.​

While the body may be reduced to ashes this is not the total destruction of the man. Only the body is destroyed as the soul passes into eternity in one state or another. Yet, even though the body is destroyed, it shall one day be raised again. 1Cor 15. This is the promise of the resurrection. Man was fashioned for eternity.