"The Soul That Sinneth, It SHALL Die."

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So your preaching that because we have the Holy Spirit NOW we can keep the law.
You don't think you can keep the law by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit? Good gravy, man, is this not taught in Scripture from cover to cover?

"I can do ALL THINGS through Christ Which strengtheneth me."
 
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Your placing an awful lot of hope on a obscure verse ? There is too many clear verses to the contrary.
There's no such thing as an "obscure verse" - "

"EVERY WORD of God is pure."
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth from the mouth of God."

Genesis 2:7 KJV is a mighty fortress against which no pagan lies about "innate immortality of the soul" can stand.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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You don't think you can keep the law by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit? Good gravy, man, is this not taught in Scripture from cover to cover?

"I can do ALL THINGS through Christ Which strengtheneth me."
Thats a first . lol usually that verse is used at the Olympic athletes ect .
" I can jump this hurdle through christ who strengthens me " . Your kinda doing the same. " I can jump to the moon ,through christ who strengthen s me . " The verse is actually about suffering and going without .

And the law?

Where are you getting your ideas from?

Romans 3:20

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

KNOWLEDGE OF SIN .
The laws purpose was never going to justify anyone . It was to drive them to faith.

At this point let me guess. You think " But the law is fulfilled in us ..blah blah " Oh dear .
 

throughfaith

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There's no such thing as an "obscure verse" - "

"EVERY WORD of God is pure."
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth from the mouth of God."

Genesis 2:7 KJV is a mighty fortress against which no pagan lies about "innate immortality of the soul" can stand.
It means that there are verses that are to be understood in light of the clear verses .All cults do the reverse . I can find verses that make it look like we reincarnate, Satan is God , God is a bird and Jesus is made of wood .
 
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Thats a first . lol usually that verse is used at the Olympic athletes ect .
" I can jump this hurdle through christ who strengthens me " . Your kinda doing the same. " I can jump to the moon ,through christ who strengthen s me . " The verse is actually about suffering and going without .

And the law?

Where are you getting your ideas from?

Romans 3:20

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

KNOWLEDGE OF SIN .
The laws purpose was never going to justify anyone . It was to drive them to faith.

At this point let me guess. You think " But the law is fulfilled in us ..blah blah " Oh dear .
Yes, you're right. Christ's power is insufficient for us to keep the commandments...

Nevermind that it was plenty potent enough to speak Creation into existence, make Abraham and Sarah's dead libidos alive again, parted the Red Sea, made a donkey speak, raise the dead back to life...yeah, it can do all that but it's not powerful enough help us stop shooting drugs or go home to our own wife. :rolleyes:
 
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It means that there are verses that are to be understood in light of the clear verses .All cults do the reverse . I can find verses that make it look like we reincarnate, Satan is God , God is a bird and Jesus is made of wood .
It also means there are NO OBSCURE VERSES. If Genesis 2:7 says the Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, who are we to argue that the Soul continues to exist after this union is broken, especially when we discover that Satan's lie is behind this false idea?

The TWO foundational doctrines that form the basis for paganism came right out of the Garden of Eden:

"Thou shalt not surely die".
"Ye shall be as gods".

The Roman Catholic Papacy embraces both, apostate Protestantism does also, by claiming man is immortal, when the Bible is clear God "only hath immortality".
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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It also means there are NO OBSCURE VERSES. If Genesis 2:7 says the Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, who are we to argue that the Soul continues to exist after this union is broken, especially when we discover that Satan's lie is behind this false idea?

The TWO foundational doctrines that form the basis for paganism came right out of the Garden of Eden:

"Thou shalt not surely die".
"Ye shall be as gods".

The Roman Catholic Papacy embraces both, apostate Protestantism does also, by claiming man is immortal, when the Bible is clear God "only hath immortality".
What does satan gain ( assuming you think satan is behind this 'lie ') from this teaching? Surely this would be a way to lessen the Gospel preaching. After all whats the big deal if we just ' poof ' cease to exist when we die . I ask this of the Jehovah witnesses all the time .
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Yes, you're right. Christ's power is insufficient for us to keep the commandments...

Nevermind that it was plenty potent enough to speak Creation into existence, make Abraham and Sarah's dead libidos alive again, parted the Red Sea, made a donkey speak, raise the dead back to life...yeah, it can do all that but it's not powerful enough help us stop shooting drugs or go home to our own wife. :rolleyes:
God could have done that of course . Made us like robots ,perfectly executing his will and commands. But his word does not reveal this idea .
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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It also means there are NO OBSCURE VERSES. If Genesis 2:7 says the Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, who are we to argue that the Soul continues to exist after this union is broken, especially when we discover that Satan's lie is behind this false idea?

The TWO foundational doctrines that form the basis for paganism came right out of the Garden of Eden:

"Thou shalt not surely die".
"Ye shall be as gods".

The Roman Catholic Papacy embraces both, apostate Protestantism does also, by claiming man is immortal, when the Bible is clear God "only hath immortality".
Would Adam and Eve have physically died had he not ate from that tree ?

Satan said they wouldn't. " ah have at it, you.ll be fine " But they did end up eventually dying physically. " Dying you shall die " said God . Satan argued they would actually benefit from doing so .
 
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What does satan gain ( assuming you think satan is behind this 'lie ') from this teaching?
I don't have to assume, I just have to read Genesis 3:4 KJV)
What does satan gain ( assuming you think satan is behind this 'lie ') from this teaching?
I don't know...just deceiving billions of Eastern religion practitioners who worship their ancestors "apparitions" instead of the Messiah our missionaries present to them...decieving a billion Catholics who think that's Mary or the saints "appearing" in various places...deceiving countless practitioners of the New Age Movement who think all those voices and apparitions like the infamous "Maitreya" are really the reincarnation of "the ascended Masters" who died before them...and millions of Christians who are going to be told by "spirits" of loved ones to disregard the law of God and anyone preaching it to them....but of course, you'll be long gone before then in the secret rapture, right? ;)
Surely this would be a way to lessen the Gospel preaching. After all whats the big deal if we just ' poof ' cease to exist when we die . I ask this of the Jehovah witnesses all the time .
The big deal is that we cease to exist, which makes the Resurrection the "great hope" that it is, and not some stupid celestial "new body" fashion show to which it has been reduced. It also destroys that ridiculous concept of eternal torment - which Satan has used to drive people insanely against God - for if the wicked Soul does not have eternal life, how can he have everlasting punishing?
 
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God could have done that of course . Made us like robots ,perfectly executing his will and commands. But his word does not reveal this idea .
Doesn't the Bible teach we have to open the door or our heart to let Christ in? Nothing robotic about that. As far as keeping the commandments goes, love - not robotic programming - is what motivates us and Christ's power is what enables us. Show me a faithful husband who goes home to his wife and I'll show you a man who's in love.
 
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Would Adam and Eve have physically died had he not ate from that tree ?
Death is the punishment for sin, not obedience.
Satan said they wouldn't. " ah have at it, you.ll be fine " But they did end up eventually dying physically. " Dying you shall die " said God . Satan argued they would actually benefit from doing so .
Y'know who else claims mankind benefitted from sin? The New Age occult science says that . Freemasonry says that. AND YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHO ELSE CALLS IT THE "BLESSED FAULT THAT MERITED FOR US SUCH AND SO GREAT A REDEEMER!" ------






....papal Antichrist says that very thing.
 

CS1

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Many claim this verse, and the others below, refers to a future "spiritual death" of the soul where it will spend eternity in torment.

This can't be referring to the future...why?

When the Bible speaks of "spiritual death", it puts it in the present tense, not future tense:

"She that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." -- 1 Timothy 5:6 KJV
Clearly, spiritual death has nothing to do with the future, but with the present, and therefore the soul that resists Jesus until the end will experience a literal death, not a spiritual death BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

Other texts which point to this future literal death of the soul:

"Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner...shall save a soul from death..." -- James 5:20 KJV

"...can destroy (in the future) both soul and body in hell." -- Matthew 10:28 KJV

...every living soul died in the sea." -- Revelation 16:3 KJV

"And it shall come to pass that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed..." -- Acts 3:23 KJV

The only problem with this mindset makes Jesus a liar by default. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Supreme Authority on any topic when is he speaks. The context can be debated but his words are there for all to see.

Jesus said some very revealing things about hell which were not allegorical, but normative and literal.

Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 about sin and the fire that will not be quenched. Why cut off a hand to escape a place you are going to be suffering in for eternity? That makes absolutely no sense. it's non-sense.

One of the most compelling things Jesu said the warning about the reality of a "Hell" with eternal consequences is found in Matthew 10:26 when Jesus said don't fear whAT MAN WILL DO TO THE bODY but what God can do to the eternal souls and spirit of man.

This some it up found Christianity.com:

"We can summarize it like this: hell is the place of conscious, eternal torment where people experience God's punishment for their sin. Yes, hell is "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41), but also for those who join them in their rebellion against God (Matt 11:20–24). The horror of hell is such that Jesus says, "if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43). For those who do not enter the narrow door of faith and repentance in Jesus (Luke 13:24) a place of weeping and gnashing teeth awaits them (Luke 13:28). "


Jesus said Hell is a place. Then He gave a description of it.

Jesus spoke literally and used Parables also to bring the spiritual understanding of this place "Hell".

Many liberal theologians have attacked the teaching of a literal hell. They can only do this when they

1. fail to read contextually what Jesus said about hell
2. gloss over the literal context of hell or change it to meaning metaphorically or allegorically.
3. Some will even ignore the very teaching of Jesus on the topic or even address HIS words.

IF Hell is not an eternal place why would Jesus even suggest cutting off your hand or plucking out your eyeball to keep you from going to this place that doesn't exist?

They make Jesus a liar.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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I don't have to assume, I just have to read Genesis 3:4 KJV)
I don't know...just deceiving billions of Eastern religion practitioners who worship their ancestors "apparitions" instead of the Messiah our missionaries present to them...decieving a billion Catholics who think that's Mary or the saints "appearing" in various places...deceiving countless practitioners of the New Age Movement who think all those voices and apparitions like the infamous "Maitreya" are really the reincarnation of "the ascended Masters" who died before them...and millions of Christians who are going to be told by "spirits" of loved ones to disregard the law of God and anyone preaching it to them....but of course, you'll be long gone before then in the secret rapture, right? ;)
The big deal is that we cease to exist, which makes the Resurrection the "great hope" that it is, and not some stupid celestial "new body" fashion show to which it has been reduced. It also destroys that ridiculous concept of eternal torment - which Satan has used to drive people insanely against God - for if the wicked Soul does not have eternal life, how can he have everlasting punishing?
Thats not a very good motivation for Satan to be behind it . I don't see the correlation with Catholics. There error are far worse than worshipping Mary, although its part of the main issue . There issue is they believe you do work for salvation and baptism is necessary.
 

Aerials1978

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Dec 10, 2019
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That's not my premise at all. As an Antinomianist, you've prolly said 1,000 times, "you can't earn salvation by keeping the law", but do you know the specific reason why?

Because it is impossible for the unsaved to keep the law in the first place, even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

However, when Christ enters the heart and lives out His obedience life in us - for "not I, but Christ liveth in me" - our works are nothing but the manifestation of His own life being lived out in us, right or wrong?

Now I ask you, if Paul says sinners can't keep the law (Romans 8:7 KJV), and that Christ lives out His law in the life of the Christian (Galatians 2:20), why do Antinomianists insist on twisting this around by claiming sinners CAN keep the law, yet the saints CANNOT?
I’m not a antinomianism person. The Ten Commandments is Gods divine law for morality. If one is broken the all are broken. We all have broken them and cast a separation between us our Creator.

Jesus’s perfect life and atonement is the only thing that can reconcile us to our Father. Should we strive with all our heart to follow Gods law? Yes. Can we do it? No(Again we have already broken the law)

If you spend your life trying to justify yourself before God by your own merits instead having faith in Christ that he paid your debt(past, present, and future) you will never experience Gods mercy, only guilt, anxiety, and despair.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Death is the punishment for sin, not obedience.
Y'know who else claims mankind benefitted from sin? The New Age occult science says that . Freemasonry says that. AND YOU'LL NEVER GUESS WHO ELSE CALLS IT THE "BLESSED FAULT THAT MERITED FOR US SUCH AND SO GREAT A REDEEMER!" ------






....papal Antichrist says that very thing.
You ll get no argument from me about Catholicism. But Jesus words clearly teach that hell is real and is literally a place that people will end up in without Christ, as much as I wish that wasn't true .
 
Aug 3, 2019
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The only problem with this mindset makes Jesus a liar by default. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Supreme Authority on any topic when is he speaks. The context can be debated but his words are there for all to see.
Bro, if I had a buck for every time you used the word "context" and for every time you took verses out of it :p
Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 about sin and the fire that will not be quenched.
Fires go out all the time that are not quenched - they run out of fuel.
"We can summarize it like this: hell is the place of conscious, eternal torment where people experience God's punishment for their sin. Yes, hell is "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41), but also for those who join them in their rebellion against God (Matt 11:20–24). The horror of hell is such that Jesus says, "if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43). For those who do not enter the narrow door of faith and repentance in Jesus (Luke 13:24) a place of weeping and gnashing teeth awaits them (Luke 13:28).
Spare us the flawed commentary and present Scripture alone, please.
Jesus said Hell is a place. Then He gave a description of it.
Of course He did.
Many liberal theologians have attacked the teaching of a literal hell.
They can only do this when they
1. fail to read contextually what Jesus said about hell
2. gloss over the literal context of hell or change it to meaning metaphorically or allegorically.
3. Some will even ignore the very teaching of Jesus on the topic or even address HIS words.
Yes, we must read all the passages in context and not change what is literal to figurative, but also not change what is figurative to literal. We must remember that Matthew says Jesus fulfilled the words of the Psalms 78:1-2 KJV, adding "and without a parable, spake He not unto them." It is ludicrous for anyone to claim that the fiery burning "hell" in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is literal, as the contextual, hermeneutical evidence shows. They refuse to acknowledge the massive contradictions which arise by taking what is parabolic and making it literal in order to "prove" their false ideas about hell.
IF Hell is not an eternal place why would Jesus even suggest cutting off your hand or plucking out your eyeball to keep you from going to this place that doesn't exist?

They make Jesus a liar.
Hell does exist, but is not eternal. There can't be eternal suffering if there is no eternal sinner. Only the righteous are granted eternal life - the wicked suffer the Second Death, and it's a shame that thinking, rational Christians argue that death is not precisely what it is: a cessation of life.
 
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I’m not a antinomianism person. The Ten Commandments is Gods divine law for morality. If one is broken the all are broken. We all have broken them and cast a separation between us our Creator.
Agreed
Should we strive with all our heart to follow Gods law? Yes. Can we do it? No(Again we have already broken the law)
We may have already broken the law, but there is forgiveness "for sins that are past", not a license to keep on breaking it. Do you believe we "can do all things through Christ Which strengtheneth" us?
If you spend your life trying to justify yourself before God by your own merits instead having faith in Christ that he paid your debt(past, present, and future) you will never experience Gods mercy, only guilt, anxiety, and despair.
I don't know anyone who strives to justify themselves by keeping the law...the overwhelming problem in the church today is people trying to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.
 
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You ll get no argument from me about Catholicism. But Jesus words clearly teach that hell is real and is literally a place that people will end up in without Christ, as much as I wish that wasn't true .
Agreed. The debate is not about if hell is real - it's about how long it burns.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Bro, if I had a buck for every time you used the word "context" and for every time you took verses out of it :p
Fires go out all the time that are not quenched - they run out of fuel.
Spare us the flawed commentary and present Scripture alone, please.
Of course He did.

Yes, we must read all the passages in context and not change what is literal to figurative, but also not change what is figurative to literal. We must remember that Matthew says Jesus fulfilled the words of the Psalms 78:1-2 KJV, adding "and without a parable, spake He not unto them." It is ludicrous for anyone to claim that the fiery burning "hell" in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is literal, as the contextual, hermeneutical evidence shows. They refuse to acknowledge the massive contradictions which arise by taking what is parabolic and making it literal in order to "prove" their false ideas about hell.
Hell does exist, but is not eternal. There can't be eternal suffering if there is no eternal sinner. Only the righteous are granted eternal life - the wicked suffer the Second Death, and it's a shame that thinking, rational Christians argue that death is not precisely what it is: a cessation of life.

Come on man! don't try to change my Gumbo, when I provided the recipe. Context is where the interpretation can be found then develop the application. Jesus said the fire WILL NOT GO OUT! you say it will using human logic. Also, I did not use the Parable of a " certain Rich and Lazarus" because that by it's self doesn't explain the reality and literal Hell Jesus spoke about. But that being said Jesus explained HIS word were not without meaning or significance.

Jesus said Hell was a place and the fire there will not go out. You do not use a parable to dismiss the literal and you must understand why Jesus said them, to begin with.

Jesus always used literal teaching prior to or right after speaking a parable to explain the truth HE was telling.


As far a figurative and literal meaning in the context of "hell"
Jesus spoke of Hell literally and used parables figuratively to explain the reality of HELL.
Jesus did not speak about the place the devil and those who reject salvation will go to as a fictitious place.

is the devil real?
Is heaven real?
Is hell real ?

Yes to all three, but Jesus spoke of a place where the devil will go for eternity as Jesus also spoke of the Heaven He was going to in John 14.

Jesus said I go to a place

John 14:1-3

1 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus in Acts 1 literally went to that place word Mansions here is figurative, however, that was to help those HE was speaking to, to receive an understanding of the literal place Jesus was going to. How can I say that?

Simple, Jesus said, " IF IT were not so, I would have told you."

The place Jesus went to is real, the place of Hell Jesus spoke about is real, the devil is real, and the eternal judgment also is very much real. Because Jesus Himself said so. Pull from Pslams and prophet and other books in the Bile if it contradicts the Lord Jesus the error is on your understanding Not the words of Jesus or what he said about the literal eternal punishment of hell.