The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Soyeong]

Zero misunderstanding! God is speaking through His apostles:

*-"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."
Galatians 5:1, 4 NKJV

If God had saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against. In Psalm 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of God that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free.

God wanted His children to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning against obeying God and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and it would again be absurd to interpret this as if he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. If you think that Paul warned us against obeying God and God therefore warned us against obeying Paul, then you should follow God instead of Paul, but the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who therefore never spoke against obeying anything that He has spoken.

-"For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.""
Galatians 5:13-14 NKJV

-"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.""
Galatians 5:14 NKJV

Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why love fulfills the law and why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the positions hat we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey rest of the Mosaic Law.

*-"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
Galatians 5:18 NKJV

In Galatians 5:16-23, Paul contrasted the desires of the flesh with the desires of the Spirit and everything that he listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's character traits that the Mosaic Law was given in oder to teach us how to embody. The desires of the flesh causing us not to do the good that we want to do is how Paul described his struggle with the law of sin in Romans 7, which is the law of sin that the Law of the Spirit of Life has freed us from (Romans 8:2), so that is the law that we are not under when we are led by the Spirit. The Law of Moses was given by God and the Spirit is God, so it would be contradictory to interpret Galatians 5:18 as referring to the Law of Moses as if we are not led by God when we are led by God.

-"As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation."
Galatians 6:12-13, 15 NKJV

If Paul had been speaking against circumcision for any reason and not just against incorrect reasons, then Galatians 5:2 would mean that he caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised and Christ is of no value to roughly 70% of the men in the US. In Acts 15:1, men from Judea were wanting to require Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the reason why God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect reason. In Exodus 12:48, Gentiles who wanted to eat of the Passover lamb are required to become circumcised, so the Jerusalem Council should not be interpreted a ruling against Gentiles correctly obeying what God has commanded as if they had the authority to countermand God. However, if you still think that the Jerusalem Council ruled against obeying what God has commanded, then the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded.

 

[Soyeong]

The old covenant became obsolete because it was not fulfilled; not because it was cumulative. The Adamic covenant was cumulative. The Noatic covenant was cumulative. The Abrahamic covenant was cumulative. The Davidic covenant was cumulative. They all involved elements of the new covenant. This was never true of the Mosaic covenant.

The Mosaic Covenant was not presented as something that we need to fulfill one and then we are done, but rather it used language like that this is a statute forever throughout your generations. It is not the case that if you have done something to express your love for your neighbor, then you have fulfilled your obligation to the law and no longer need to love you neighbor, but rather we need to keep fulfilling it. If you pay your taxes for the year, then you have correctly fulfilled your obligation to the law, but that doesn't mean that you no longer need to pay taxes. God's character traits are eternal, so everything that the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about how to embody God's character traits is cumulatively valid. There is direct continuation between God's covenants, so you have no grounds for making an exception for the Mosaic Covenant.

 

[Cameron143]

The Mosaic Covenant was not presented as something that we need to fulfill one and then we are done, but rather it used language like that this is a statute forever throughout your generations. It is not the case that if you have done something to express your love for your neighbor, then you have fulfilled your obligation to the law and no longer need to love you neighbor, but rather we need to keep fulfilling it. If you pay your taxes for the year, then you have correctly fulfilled your obligation to the law, but that doesn't mean that you no longer need to pay taxes. God's character traits are eternal, so everything that the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about how to embody God's character traits is cumulatively valid. There is direct continuation between God's covenants, so you have no grounds for making an exception for the Mosaic Covenant.

Never said it was. But Israel failed the covenant continually. It was also a works covenant like the original covenant with Adam and the covenant God the Father made with God the Son. All the other covenants were covenants of grace.

 

[Soyeong]

Never said it was. But Israel failed the covenant continually. It was also a works covenant like the original covenant with Adam and the covenant God the Father made with God the Son. All the other covenants were covenants of grace.

Do you think that the reason why Christ established the New Covenant was so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place?

In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, so the Mosaic Covenant also a covenant of grace along with all of God's other covenants.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I never said it was work in the sense of labor. “Works of the law” are the actions performed to fulfill the Mosaic Law found in the first five books of the Old Testament. These "deeds were considered to he required and meritorious in gaining right standing with God. These type of "works" included
A. Keeping the Sabbath,
B. being circumcised (the issue before the Galatian churches),
C. eating “clean” foods, and other ceremonies
D. In addition, it meant following the morality of the law (not murdering, not committing adultery, not stealing)
The belief was that doing these things can make us right in God’s eyes. However, no action on the part of sinful creatures can result in God’s declaring them to be righteous in His sight.

So you think doing the works of God is bad? Do you hear what you're saying. That God would produce bad fruit by His work?

32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Psa 78:7 That they may set their hope in God, And not forget the works of God, But keep His commandments;

So your solution is to not do what is righteousness in His sight but rebel against Him and what he asked us to keep if we love Him?

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Sadly this teaching is what will lead people off the narrow path

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Sad how people can't even see this flawed theory, Obeying God is bad and work so the solution is to rebel and disobey.

 

[Soyeong]

I never said it was work in the sense of labor. “Works of the law” are the actions performed to fulfill the Mosaic Law found in the first five books of the Old Testament. These "deeds were considered to he required and meritorious in gaining right standing with God. These type of "works" included
A. Keeping the Sabbath,
B. being circumcised (the issue before the Galatian churches),
C. eating “clean” foods, and other ceremonies
D. In addition, it meant following the morality of the law (not murdering, not committing adultery, not stealing)
The belief was that doing these things can make us right in God’s eyes. However, no action on the part of sinful creatures can result in God’s declaring them to be righteous in His sight.

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted the Book of the Law with "works of the law", and in Romans 3:31 he said that our faith upholds the Law of God in contrast with saying Galatians 3:10-12 that "works of the law" are not of faith, so that phrase does not refer to the Law of God, which is why it is not of faith. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalm 19:7-11), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions, it would be contradictory to think that we should trust in God but not in His instructions, and the position that God is a giver of untrustworthy instructions that are not of faith denies the trustworthiness and faithfulness of God.

We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was given to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ, so the Law of God is what we get to experience being a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness through faith.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you think that the reason why Christ established the New Covenant was so that we could continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place?

In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, so the Mosaic Covenant also a covenant of grace along with all of God's other covenants.

No, of course not. That's why the new covenant provides for laws to be written upon our hearts and for us to be made partakers of the divine nature.

You don't understand the nature of the covenants

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The “Yoke of bondage” refers to the OC. He doesn’t want the Jews to go back to living under it.

Just like you didn't understand when you said Jesus sinned and broke the Sabbath, you really do not fully understand what you are saying by this. There is no Scripture that says the OC is a "yoke of bondage"

32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

You are saying the works of God is bondage - when in actuality the bondage is breaking the law of God which leads us to sin and death and is bondage Rom7:23. Jesus is trying to free us from it, but sadly many just don't want to. John3:19-21

 

[SabbathBlessing]

May the Lord give you a better understanding…..

The Law of Liberty in Christ Jesus doesn’t hang onto the old way of doing things. He has issued a far better covenant! How we are to live is in the NC….

Well I have invited you to show the context from the Scriptures you posted and in every turn you choose not to. Accusations are easy to make, so it not being able to provide the context for statements being made. Really studying the Bible and asking prayer for guidance takes effort. I guess it will sort itself out soon enough. Take care

 

[Soyeong]

No, of course not. That's why the new covenant provides for laws to be written upon our hearts and for us to be made partakers of the divine nature.

You don't understand the nature of the covenants

Then why do you make an exception for what the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about how to partake in the divine nature?

The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to graciously teach us how to have an intimate relationship with God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heavens, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth shall be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiple and God will bless them in the land that they go to posses. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would doers of the same works as him, so he drew a direct connection between the works that Abraham did and the works that they should be doing in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Psalm 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham and multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and by teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. So both Abraham and Moses taught how to partake in the divine nature by walking in God's way.

 

[Cameron143]

Then why do you make an exception for what the Mosaic Covenant teaches us about how to partake in the divine nature?

The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by experiencing embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to graciously teach us how to have an intimate relationship with God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heavens, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth shall be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiple and God will bless them in the land that they go to posses. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would doers of the same works as him, so he drew a direct connection between the works that Abraham did and the works that they should be doing in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Psalm 119:1-3, the Mosaic Law is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in God's way, so the way that the children of Abraham and multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and by teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. So both Abraham and Moses taught how to partake in the divine nature by walking in God's way.

We aren't partakers of the divine nature because of the law. We are made partakers of the divine nature when the Holy Spirit indwells us. This has nothing to do with the law.

I should explain the nature of covenants. Under a covenant of works, when the covenant is breached, for God to remain righteous, He must dispense judgment. This is not so in a covenant of grace. In a covenant of grace, the covenant having already being fulfilled, God remains righteous even in the dispensing of grace, as no breach of the covenant has occurred.

 

[Soyeong]

We aren't partakers of the divine nature because of the law. We are made partakers of the divine nature when the Holy Spirit indwells us. This has nothing to do with the law.

The Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to embody His character traits and His character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

I should explain the nature of covenants. Under a covenant of works, when the covenant is breached, for God to remain righteous, He must dispense judgment. This is not so in a covenant of grace. In a covenant of grace, the covenant having already being fulfilled, God remains righteous even in the dispensing of grace, as no breach of the covenant has occurred.

By all means please quote where the Bible says any of this.

 

[Cameron143]

The Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to embody His character traits and His character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it (Ezekiel 36:26-27).


By all means please quote where the Bible says any of this.

You still cling to the law to embody God's traits. The law cannot do this. If it could, no savior would be necessary. It's a false premise. God's traits are embodied in us by the Spirit. He is the source of the fruit of the Spirit.

What allows God to be both Judge and Justifier?

 

[Mem]

What allows God to be both Judge and Justifier?

He judges that we either have a Savior or we die and He provides us with Him.

 

[Cameron143]

He judges that we either have a Savior or we die and He provides us with Him.

How does the righteousness God apply?

 

[Mem]

How does the righteousness God apply?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Accordingly, to the law of sin and death, I think is the answer you're looking for. This is what we need delivered from. Rom6:20-21 says, "For when you were slaves to sin, you were free from obligation to righteousness...The outcome of those things is death." However, the demand of death is met in Christ on our behalf.

Rom6:22-23 continues, "But now you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." The demand of eternal life is met in us on behalf of our Lord and Savior, as all the terms of righteousness are met in Him.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Well written
If only people would see how clear it is.
I honestly feel that there is a stubbornness that people have which causes them to not see the truth, and only see the verses the way they want to see. Only see things that say what they want to believe..

Many questions and plain truths are ignored and people go back to their reasoning which is often out of context.

Sadly they will continue to only see things the way they want to see it because they will not soften their hearts.

Around and around we go.....

Jer 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Isa 30:9-10
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

They refused to hear the law and they told the prophets to speak lies and smooth things..

Like today... 2Ti 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

With all the evidence you or the Holy word has given many refuse to hear.

Like I said "well written", I'm just sad that more people don't open their hearts and see the truth.

Thank you, its been about a 3+ year Bible study for me just on Colossians 2 and I am always learning something new about this passage. Like how Paul preference this whole passage by this:

Cor 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

It would be a hard case to make the seventh day Sabbath is not according to Christ. Jesus is LORD of the Sabbath and the Sabbath day is the holy day of the LORD - spoken by God personally written by God, part of the Testimony of the LORD. Every thus saith the LORD in all of Scripture He tells us to keep and not profane the Sabbath- keeping we join ourselves to the LORD Isa 56:6 God wants us near Him, this is according to Christ. Paul would never go against what God said.

 

[Mem]

as all the terms of righteousness are met in Him.

Matt3:15

 

[Inquisitor]

By this very verses shows your misunderstanding of the Scriptures you post.

For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law,
and all who have sinned
under the Law will be judged by the Law.

Why the Ten Commandments is under the mercy seat of God and what all will be Judged by regardless is we refuse His standard of righteousness. Rev11:18-19

Those who are in Christ and are keeping His commandments because God has changed us from the inside and do so through love and faith, will be reconciled back to Him.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

You need to clarify what you are teaching.

Is a person saved by believing in Jesus and obedience to the law, both are necessary (Rev 22:14)?

Or is a person saved by the gospel of Jesus Christ alone and that person then follows the Holy Spirit?

Which is it?

 

[Inquisitor]

The Sabbath is not "my doctrine" it came straight from God, written by God, spoken by God. All of the Ten Commandments came with capital punishment not just the 4th. The wages of sin is death Rom6:23 even in the NT 1John3:4 James2:11 Mat5:19-30

Jesus is trying to change our heart, so we would want to spend holy time with Him on the day He made for us Mark2:27 set aside from Creation Exo20:11 to do so, to bless Isa 56:2 and sanctity us Eze20:12 , because can't do this ourselves. Isa66:17 we need God Eze20:20

God says we join ourselves to the LORD when we keep the Sabbath Isa 56:6, man says its a yoke of bondage to spend holy time with God. There are more important things to do with my time. I'll spend time with God on my terms, not His.

Sadly, its the same story Eze20:13 Eze20:15-16 different day.

The sabbath is codified law in Exodus 20.

Your doctrine is obedience to the law.