OK inquisitor ill play your game, lets try something else, then since you wont budge. was what Jesus did , taught us and asked us to do for Israel only?
lets start with this one we will do the rest later.
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
- Thread starter vassal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
lets start with this one we will do the rest later.
Good post.
Psa 40:I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”
I think there is a misunderstanding among Christians what faith looks like.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
The faith part comes first and this is what saves, but the action is what proves our faith is genuine or not. Genuine faith is always followed by good fruits, which includes obedience to God's commandments, not to be saved but because of faith Rom3:31
Gen 26:4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
So the argument against obeying the commandments of the God who created and made everything Exo20:11 the only God we are called to worship Rev14:7 I will never understand. I am afraid many don't even truly understand what they are arguing against.
Regarding Mat5:17
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy the law, but instead He came to fulfill.
What was prophesized that Jesus would do to His law that He fulfilled?
Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Magnify means make larger, not end, not to destroy as Jesus said plainly.
Which we see Jesus doing with the Ten Commandments in this very passage! Relating anger to thou shalt not murder, relating thoughts of lust with thou shalt not commit murder. This is how much Jesus does not want us to sin and break His commandments, not to even have thoughts that lead to breaking them and He goes on to say in doing so one is sinning and will be in fear of Judgement. Mat5:17-30
Why Jesus said plainly
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Its not that Jesus did not make Himself clear that He wants us to keep His commandments- He wrote them, He spoke them, He came in the flesh to magnify them, He taught them He kept them - the issue is not that He was not clear, the issue is our unbelief to live out what He says.
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy the law, but instead He came to fulfill.
What was prophesized that Jesus would do to His law that He fulfilled?
Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Magnify means make larger, not end, not to destroy as Jesus said plainly.
Which we see Jesus doing with the Ten Commandments in this very passage! Relating anger to thou shalt not murder, relating thoughts of lust with thou shalt not commit murder. This is how much Jesus does not want us to sin and break His commandments, not to even have thoughts that lead to breaking them and He goes on to say in doing so one is sinning and will be in fear of Judgement. Mat5:17-30
Why Jesus said plainly
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Its not that Jesus did not make Himself clear that He wants us to keep His commandments- He wrote them, He spoke them, He came in the flesh to magnify them, He taught them He kept them - the issue is not that He was not clear, the issue is our unbelief to live out what He says.
You've introduced an interesting distinction between the salvation of the spirit and the salvation of the soul, but notice what you haven't done — you haven't addressed a single verse I cited. Matthew 24:13, John 12:48, John 17:4, Matthew 25:31–32 — all passed over in silence. If "it is finished" means everything was fully accomplished for every person through all of history at Calvary, those verses need an answer, not a change of subject.
On your two-salvations framework: I'm not opposed to the idea that there are dimensions of salvation that unfold progressively. That's actually closer to my position than yours. But if you're saying the soul's salvation is progressive and a lifelong journey that can be missed, then you've agreed with me that something essential was not completed at the cross. You've simply renamed it. The question then becomes whether what can be "missed" is trivial or serious — and Scripture doesn't treat the soul lightly. "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul?" (Mark 8:36).
Colossians 2:10 speaks of our positional completeness in Christ — it's a statement about union, not about the unfolding of God's redemptive purposes in history. It doesn't contradict anything I said.
The Chesterton quote is beautiful. The Elliot quote is convicting. But quotes don't exegete Scripture. The question on the table is what "it is finished" means in light of everything else Jesus taught — and you haven't answered that yet.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Do you know how many times the Jews disobeyed God throughout history? The whole OT is full of His wrath because they disobeyed, and transgressing the Law. That date is no exception.
Didn’t many Jews kill our God by insisting that He should die? This was prophesied.
but the covenant didn't end until 70AD.????????????????????????????????? can you explain this?
where is this from?"
""Didn’t many Jews kill our God by insisting that He should die? This was prophesied.""
"
Sure it did. That's what the book of Revelation is all about. Just as the book of Deuteronomy initiates a covenant between Israel and God, likewise, the book of Deuteronomy deals with the end of that covenant.
70 AD? show me these verses for the end of the covenant in 70 AD
70AD was the destruction of the temple and the destruction of lineage records.
I don't have time to go through the references now, but Hebrews speaks to a waning covenant, there is a parable where the son of the vineyard owner is killed, etc.
I also don't have time to outline Revelation and Deuteronomy at present. Both books have the same outline with the exception that one initiates a covenant and the latter tells of the soon coming sanctions forewarned for failing to keep said covenant.
Yes, because its not there. A Covenant is ratified by death and blood, not destruction of a city.
Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Many of you are following the doctrine of men, twisting Scripture to fit your doctrine. You use lingo which I’ve never heard of, terms that you think is Scriptural but isn’t because they’re man-made ideas. Hence, I’m not able to follow because I’m not familiar with most man-made doctrines.
Many of you write an epoch long remark that really doesn’t make much sense using verses peppered here and there that have no relevance to your statements. And you absolutely attack the very verses that counter your statements!! If we can’t use Scripture, what is left to use? All you have to counter straightforward verses are man-made doctrines and reasoning!
You’re disbelieving what the Spirit has said through the apostles letters, because you’re trying to hold on to the OC, and traditions of men.
Also, on another note, I want to make it clear that I had already apologized (and I’m doing so again) for writing an error in my faulty writing/ thinking (I had misread one verse thinking that Jesus had broken Shabbat when in FACT it was the Pharisees who had said this….; I know that Jesus was/ is perfect and righteous in everything He did/ does!!!).
I admitted my mistake, again, so I don’t know why someone continues to throw sand in my face??
No one is perfect in their thinking/ speech/ actions, me most of all. Nevertheless, I’m persevering!
I will continue to use Scripture to counter arguments, because verses come from God and not man-made doctrines. If you disbelieve the verses themselves, because it counters your doctrine and man-made reasoning, then you’re fighting with God! We all know how this will end…. Someone even mentioned that Paul’s writing is controversial. (??)
The only reason someone would say this is because it counters their man-made doctrine! Go figure!!
May God open your understanding and have mercy on your souls….
Many of you write an epoch long remark that really doesn’t make much sense using verses peppered here and there that have no relevance to your statements. And you absolutely attack the very verses that counter your statements!! If we can’t use Scripture, what is left to use? All you have to counter straightforward verses are man-made doctrines and reasoning!
You’re disbelieving what the Spirit has said through the apostles letters, because you’re trying to hold on to the OC, and traditions of men.
Also, on another note, I want to make it clear that I had already apologized (and I’m doing so again) for writing an error in my faulty writing/ thinking (I had misread one verse thinking that Jesus had broken Shabbat when in FACT it was the Pharisees who had said this….; I know that Jesus was/ is perfect and righteous in everything He did/ does!!!).
I admitted my mistake, again, so I don’t know why someone continues to throw sand in my face??
No one is perfect in their thinking/ speech/ actions, me most of all. Nevertheless, I’m persevering!
I will continue to use Scripture to counter arguments, because verses come from God and not man-made doctrines. If you disbelieve the verses themselves, because it counters your doctrine and man-made reasoning, then you’re fighting with God! We all know how this will end…. Someone even mentioned that Paul’s writing is controversial. (??)
The only reason someone would say this is because it counters their man-made doctrine! Go figure!!
May God open your understanding and have mercy on your souls….
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Actually, Paul was addressing the letter to the saints (Christians) in Rome.
“To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Romans 1:7 NKJV
Whether previous Jew or Gentile, He is no respecter of person.
“For there is no partiality with God.”
Romans 2:11 NKJV
T
TruthDefender
Guest
No one was trying to throw sand in your face but if you felt that I was, my apologies. You were trying to connect The Ten Commandments as being a yoke of bondage. This is a serious allegation against God, just like saying Jesus sinned I was only trying to connect them on the gravity, not bring up the misunderstanding of Jesus and Sabbath-keeping.Many of you are following the doctrine of men, twisting Scripture to fit your doctrine. You use lingo which I’ve never heard of, terms that you think is Scriptural but isn’t because they’re man-made ideas. Hence, I’m not able to follow because I’m not familiar with most man-made doctrines.
Many of you write an epoch long remark that really doesn’t make much sense using verses peppered here and there that have no relevance to your statements. And you absolutely attack the very verses that counter your statements!! If we can’t use Scripture, what is left to use? All you have to counter straightforward verses are man-made doctrines and reasoning!
You’re disbelieving what the Spirit has said through the apostles letters, because you’re trying to hold on to the OC, and traditions of men.
Also, on another note, I want to make it clear that I had already apologized (and I’m doing so again) for writing an error in my faulty writing/ thinking (I had misread one verse thinking that Jesus had broken Shabbat when in FACT it was the Pharisees who had said this….; I know that Jesus was/ is perfect and righteous in everything He did/ does!!!).
I admitted my mistake, again, so I don’t know why someone continues to throw sand in my face??
No one is perfect in their thinking/ speech/ actions, me most of all. Nevertheless, I’m persevering!
I will continue to use Scripture to counter arguments, because verses come from God and not man-made doctrines. If you disbelieve the verses themselves, because it counters your doctrine and man-made reasoning, then you’re fighting with God! We all know how this will end…. Someone even mentioned that Paul’s writing is controversial. (??)
The only reason someone would say this is because it counters their man-made doctrine! Go figure!!
May God open your understanding and have mercy on your souls….
But I will tell you why relating the Ten Commandments to the work of bondage is so dangerous,
Psa 33:4 For the word of the Lord is right,
And all His work is done in truth.
God claims the Ten Commandments is the work of God.
Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
God personally wrote the Ten Commandments and it is His work, not mans, its the Testimony of God Exo31:18. It is His standard of right-doing Psa 119:172 and its eternal Psa 119:142 why His works is done in Truth, why all His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 because God is our standard for Truth and Righteousness not anyone else and He tells us what that is but will we beleive Him.
To claim the law of God is bondage when God is saying its His work and its done in Truth and only the Truth sets us free- is saying God is producing bad works, His fruits are bad.
Its why we have to be very careful with the way we interpret Paul's writings. Paul was a self-proclaimed servant of God and would never say God's works produces bad fruit.
So regarding your first sentence, I have again invited you to explain the verses you quote through the context of the very passages and every time you have declined. You might want to take that into consideration before you accuse others. I will always explain my reasoning from Scriptures if asked, if I haven't already done so in what I post.
When Jesus rose, the new covenant was put into effect. The old covenant wasn't done away with until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
Scripture please for both accounts. There were not two covenants running simultaneously.
Heb 10:9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
The Covenant of God was ratified by His death, that's when it took effect according to Scripture- He rose because He is our Savior.
Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 8:13. One waning, the other growing.
There is no reason 2 covenants can't run simultaneously. The old covenant wasn't even about salvation. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. The old covenant merely set Israel apart as God's people. No one ever was saved under that covenant.
Yes, it vanished at the death of Christ as stated Heb9:15 not 70AD, which you have provided no Scripture to support this.