The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Cameron143]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Accordingly, to the law of sin and death, I think is the answer you're looking for. This is what we need delivered from. Rom6:20-21 says, "For when you were slaves to sin, you were free from obligation to righteousness...The outcome of those things is death." However, the demand of death is met in Christ on our behalf.

Rom6:22-23 continues, "But now you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." The demand of eternal life is met in us on behalf of our Lord and Savior, as all the terms of righteousness are met in Him.

God is righteous in all His ways...Psalm 145:17. Righteousness is the only attribute of God said to be always present in His actions. While God is love, His actions are not always loving. While God is merciful, God does not always exercise mercy. But in all His ways and actions, He is righteous.

It is easy to see that God is righteous in judgment. Laws have been broken and the consequences are meted out. But God is also righteous in exercising mercy. How can this be so? It is so because God has already exacted the payment due. Without having done so, God could not extend mercy regardless of how merciful He may be. No offense would ever be overlooked.

I asked the question because there are some here who seem to believe that their personal endeavor to keep the law maintains their favored relationship with God. This is a false premise. The only thing that provides favor to the Christian is their relationship with Christ. And that relationship is secure not because individuals keep the commandments, but because they are accepted because they are in Christ. And it is God Himself who justifies. This is why nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Inquisitor]

The position that new coverts are not required to keep the Shabbat in order to become saved as the result is not the position that new coverts are not required to keep the Shabbat or the position that our salvation does not require us to keep the Shabbat.

Very confusing paragraph.

Can you explain that again?

 

[Inquisitor]

His actions are not always loving.

What?

 

[Inquisitor]

Not sure where you got that from. The Ten Commandments is not the law of Moses. It says so right in our Bibles.... how anyone ever comes to the conclusion that the commandments that start with only worshipping God is a yoke of bondage is a sad teaching not from God, when God Himself both written and spoken says He shows mercy to those who love Him and keep His commandments Exo20:6

Where is Moses in these verse? Every one of these commandments has the name of the LORD thy God. Sad many people toss these aside because they think its about Moses when God is speaking here and wrote it and they are all about our relationship with God. The last 6 on our relationship with man Rom13:9 no greater commandments than these and the summary does not remove all of these details No circumcision here, you are not understanding the different laws and their purposes. Not one person needed to get circumcised in order to keep the law of God.


Exo 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 25: 16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Exo 25:21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.


Moses wrote a different law besides the ark of God's Covenant


Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you

Here is the book of the law that Moses wrote.

Exodus 24:3-4
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all
the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”
Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord.

The Lord spoke them and Moses wrote them.

That was the covenant based on the Mosaic law.

 

[Inquisitor]

So you believe that entering into eternal life depends on whether a person (in addition to repentance and faith) commits himself to follow all the command of the Abrahamic and Mosaic law which would inlclude circumcision. At least, the Hasidim only threatened those who drove their cars on Shabbat with physical injury. Your doctrine threatens those who believe in Jesus but do not keep Shabbat with eternal death and damnation in the "world to come." Is this not a heavy yoke to bind on His children more so than the Law of Moses which only punished Shabbat-breakers with physical death.

Very good point.

Disobedience to the Mosaic covenant is an eternal punishment not just a physical death.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Paul was mistaken in that Jesus has not set us free because we are under the law in the first covenant.

We are still under the law of sin and death; the soul that sins will die.

 

[Cameron143]

What?

Do you believe casting an individual into hell is an act of love?

 

[Inquisitor]

What is it you don't understand about God writing His laws on tablets of stone and than writing it in tablets of the heart?

I keep telling you folks that God spoke the law and Moses wrote the law.

The covenant in Exodus 24 was based on the spoken word of God.

You need to read Exodus 20-24.

 

[Inquisitor]

Do you believe casting an individual into hell is an act of love?

I believe that God is love and always acts in pure divine love towards everyone.

God is perfect in every way.

Is damning someone an act of evil?

 

[Mem]

"For when you were slaves to sin, you were free from obligation to righteousness...

And now that we are slaves to God, we are free from the obligation to sin and death (which rendered us lawless because it was impotent to procure our righteousness). That is, we have been set free from the obligation of death, and we are now obligated to holiness and life (because it is only His righteousness that renders us lawful, in Him)!

God is righteous in all His ways...Psalm 145:17. Righteousness is the only attribute of God said to be always present in His actions. While God is love, His actions are not always loving. While God is merciful, God does not always exercise mercy. But in all His ways and actions, He is righteous.

It is easy to see that God is righteous in judgment. Laws have been broken and the consequences are meted out. But God is also righteous in exercising mercy. How can this be so? It is so because God has already exacted the payment due. Without having done so, God could not extend mercy regardless of how merciful He may be. No offense would ever be overlooked.

I asked the question because there are some here who seem to believe that their personal endeavor to keep the law maintains their favored relationship with God. This is a false premise. The only thing that provides favor to the Christian is their relationship with Christ. And that relationship is secure not because individuals keep the commandments, but because they are accepted because they are in Christ. And it is God Himself who justifies. This is why nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

I realize why you asked the question but supposed that it would be overlooked, perhaps even as offensive.

How did the high priest make anything otherwise common, such as an article of furniture made from acacia wood, holy?
By the sprinkling of blood otherwise common articles, even if made from gold, were made holy. What then if that blood, His blood, is overlooked?

 

[Inquisitor]

One can't separate loving God from keeping the commandments of God.

Depends on which set of commandments your talking about?

The Mosaic law or the commandments Jesus gave in the new covenant?

They are different commandments; one set is the law of Moses and the other is the law of Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

No contradiction it was part of God's plan, it is why he trained dis disciples to preach to all nations to preach all ht did and said and grow the Kingdom, but you know all of this already do you not?

No I don't know all of this.

Jesus was only sent to Israel.

The 11 apostles spoke to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Gentiles were never under the law, that is, the yoke of bondage.

The Jews were delivered from the yoke of the law by Jesus.

Jesus conquered the law of sin and death.

That's God's plan, Jesus fulfilled the law and in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile.

 

[Gideon300]

Jesus also said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). If the whole plan was finished for every person at the cross, why speak of enduring to the end?

He said, “The word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). That judgment was still future. Even after the cross, there is a last day.

Look at His prayer in John 17. Before the cross He said, “I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do” (John 17:4). Yet He had not even died yet. So “finished” does not mean every part of God’s plan through all time was fully carried out. It means the specific task at that moment was completed.

On the cross, the sacrifice was finished. The offering was complete. But salvation also includes resurrection, ascension, intercession, the preaching of the gospel to all nations, the judgment, and the final kingdom. Jesus spoke of sitting on His throne in glory and judging the nations (Matthew 25:31–32). That clearly was not finished at Calvary.

The sacrifice was finished. The Lamb was offered once for all. Nothing can be added to His blood.

But the application of that sacrifice to each person, the call to repent, to believe, to endure, the future judgment, and the bringing in of the kingdom were not finished at that moment.

The cross is the foundation. It is complete. But the full plan of salvation, as Jesus Himself described it, unfolds from the cross until the last day.

Sorry to burst your bubble

Funny, my Bible says that I am complete in Christ (Colossians 2:10). This is the starting point, not the destination. We should be growing up into Christ. In other words, what we are in the spirit (I mean our human spirits) should become our experience in the realm of the soul. (Ephesians 4:15)

So again, there are two salvations: the first is to be born again, which is instantaneous and irreversible. Then there is the salvation of the soul, which is progressive and a lifelong journey. Not seeing these truths leads to confusion and endless and pointless discussion.

So no, you cannot lose your eternal life, but it is possible to miss out on God's best. "He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot, missionary who was martyred in Ecuador.

 

[Gideon300]

No I don't know all of this.

Jesus was only sent to Israel.

The 11 apostles spoke to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Gentiles were never under the law, that is, the yoke of bondage.

The Jews were delivered from the yoke of the law by Jesus.

Jesus conquered the law of sin and death.

That's God's plan, Jesus fulfilled the law and in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile.

Hmmm Peter preached to the Roman Centurion. Do you believe that he was a Jew?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I keep telling you folks that God spoke the law and Moses wrote the law.

The covenant in Exodus 24 was based on the spoken word of God.

You need to read Exodus 20-24.

You might say that, but the Bible teaches something very different, plainly.

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 24:12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”

Moses wrote another law that was outside the ark of the covenant of God. Deut 31:24-26 What God wrote was inside the ark of God's covenant under the mercy seat of God.

 

[Dino246]

Just like you didn't understand when you said Jesus sinned and broke the Sabbath, you really do not fully understand what you are saying by this. There is no Scripture that says the OC is a "yoke of bondage"

He did understand. He just worded it awkwardly. That you bring this up again, indicates you have not extended grace at all, but choose instead to hold him under judgement for something he has admitted.

Such behaviour is Pharisaical.

 

[Dino246]

Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand

Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”

It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.

Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?

2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

What law is the law that was contrary and against?

Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.

Your rationale here is specious. Nothing at all in your argument or the context of the passage justifies eliminating the ten commandments from serious consideration.

 

[Mem]

Is damning someone an act of evil?

Titus 3:11 speaks of self-condemnation and John 16:8-11 speaks of the promise of the Holy Spirit to convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. This seems very thoughtful to me, caring even.
However, it seems that aligning oneself with the prince of this world must be.
"...and about judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned."

Paul addresses "an (hateful) enemy of all righteousness" in Acts 13:10.

 

[Inquisitor]

Here is a direct and Christ centered reply:

---

You are building your entire argument on Paul while ignoring the direct words of Jesus Himself — and that is where the foundation becomes unstable.

Jesus did not leave this question open to interpretation. After His resurrection He stood before His disciples — Jews who would carry His message — and declared without ambiguity:

Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. (Matthew 28:19-20)

All nations. All things He commanded. That settles it directly from the mouth of Jesus.

And before that He said:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Not to Israel only. To all nations.

And when a Gentile — a Roman centurion — came to Jesus with faith, Jesus did not turn him away saying He was sent to Israel only. He declared:

Verily I say unto you I have not found so great faith no not in Israel. (Matthew 8:10)

He honoured Gentile faith openly and publicly.

And the Samaritan woman at the well — neither Jewish nor a disciple — received from Jesus one of the most profound revelations of His entire ministry:

God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

Jesus gave that to a Gentile woman. Freely. Deliberately.

The mission was always universal. Jesus said so Himself. That is the only voice that settles this question completely.

Everything you said has nothing to do with the fact, that Jesus was sent only to Israel.

Here is a verse from Matthew you quoted.

Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you.
(Matthew 28:19-20)

It is strange that the historical pattern in Acts of baptism is singular and in the name of Jesus.

Acts 2:38
Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Acts 8:16
They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22:16
And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.

Romans 6:3
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Why don't the apostles baptize in the title of the Father, the name of the Son, and the title of the
Holy Spirit?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

He did understand. He just worded it awkwardly. That you bring this up again, indicates you have not extended grace at all, but choose instead to hold him under judgement for something he has admitted.

Such behaviour is Pharisaical.

I brought it up because claiming the "work of God" is bondage is just as bad as saying Jesus sinned basically saying the work of God produces bad fruit, which is impossible. They might not understand the allegations they are making about God and better to understand this now so they can hopefully re-think their teachings than not to say anything at all and they continue on using the name of God in vain, misrepresenting God's character.

I have never called this person any names, or called them Pharisaical. Usually the one claiming others are accusing is the one accusing. Jesus spoke of this as well. Mat7:3-5

 

[Dino246]

So you think doing the works of God is bad? Do you hear what you're saying. That God would produce bad fruit by His work?

32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

Psa 78:7 That they may set their hope in God, And not forget the works of God, But keep His commandments;

So your solution is to not do what is righteousness in His sight but rebel against Him and what he asked us to keep if we love Him?

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Sadly this teaching is what will lead people off the narrow path

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Sad how people can't even see this flawed theory, Obeying God is bad and work so the solution is to rebel and disobey.

You grossly misrepresent your opponents. That's the mark of someone lacking integrity.