The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
We get it from God’s word; we are to do things according to the pattern that we were given:

“Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20‬:‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
I go to my friends place on a Sunday to have a bible study and we often eat together. But this does not change the sabbath from the Seventh-day to the first. It does not make the first day holy and blessed.

God blessed the 7th day and made it holy.

We can gather together every day of the week but that does not change the sabbath.

And you said we are to do things according to the patterns ...

Act 13:42-44 KJV 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. .....44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Only ONE 24 hour day was set aside for holy use.
 
Sorcery, kidnapping, afflicting orphans, civil disobedience that results in death, all manner of sexual
deviation. Gambling, extortion, drugs, alcohol, violence, judging others, legalism. Are all immoral
behaviors that your flesh excels at committing. I don't think we can make the list long enough.

If you are deluded into thinking that a holy life involves a sabbath observance once a week.
Then you are missing the bigger picture entirely.

Jesus did not give His life as a perfect sacrifice in the hope that you would start to obey a handful
of laws. Or should I say any attempt to obey a law that we never could obey. Our flesh
never permits any level of continuous obedience.

The depth of your sin and rebellion against God are far beyond your understanding.

We never think for one moment that anything we think or do matters. To a perfect God that
is eternally holy, holy, holy. God's grace is immeasurable in it's magnitude for us. God is
showing a tolerance towards us that is beyond comprehension.

Never, ever, set a standard that Christians must achieve as the law does.

The outcome will be 100% failure and any denial is simply self deception.

The law only grants the knowledge of your moral insanity.

Only one way to gain salvation and that is by calling on the name of the Lord.

That was the only way that any of us will ever be saved and that is a free gift.

It was never about what you can do!
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

True love leads to obedience
Love for God and our neighbour is the motivation to keep the laws.
 
behaviors that your flesh excels at committing. I don't think we can make the list long enough.

If you are deluded into thinking that a holy life involves a sabbath observance once a week.
Then you are missing the bigger picture entirely.
Jesus is the Holy life that we have been promised by faith.

Imputed righteousness
Imparted righteousness.

To think that we can continue in sin or reject the Holy Spirit from changing our heart and be saved is to be deluded.

Jesus came to save us from sin and sadly many Christians are living IN sin thinking they are saved.. this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitians..

Rev 2:6 KJV But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

We do not use the grace of Jesus as an excuse to continue in sin. We love sin with the flesh... but that is not an excuse to sin.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

The big picture is that Jesus died so that we could be filled with His Spirit and walk in the righteousness that He did.

He came to save us from sin.
 
-"What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, TILL the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator."
Galatians 3:19 NKJV

-"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
Galatians 3:24-25 NKJV

-"having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
Colossians 2:14 NKJV
These have perfectly described the cerimonial laws. The laws that pointed to Christ.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Study this prophecy

Jesus died after 3 and a half years of teaching. In the midst of, in the middle of the week (7 years) Jesus made the sacrifices and oblation to cease.. by His death.

Mat 27:50-51
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Why did God rip the Holy veil in half?

Eph 2:15 KJV Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
 
"a tutor to bring us to Christ." Why would the tutor need to bring us to Christ? So that Christ could continue in the tutoring? No, "after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

How can anyone assert that we live by faith, not works and yet also assert that we live by works. Living does not come by works, but works come by living.
The Tutor was the OC.
 
Jesus does not say in that text that eating and healing is not allowed on the Sabbath. What it does say is that David and His men were hungry and they ate the shewbread from the Holy place which was unlawful for them to do.

Why did Jesus say that?

Because it was a law from the Book of the Law that stated that it was forbidden for any to eat the shewbread accept the Levite Priests.

Lev 24:9 (NET) It will belong to Aaron and his sons, and they must eat it in a holy place because it is most holy to him, a perpetually-allotted portion from the gifts of the LORD.”

Exod 29:33 (NET) They are to eat those things by which atonement was made to consecrate and to set them apart, but no one else may eat them, for they are holy.

This is not some deep theological thing my friend. Careful what you share. We are responsible for what we share. Because sharing is teaching.

Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, because you know that we will be judged more strictly.
In that verse, they were plucking/ collecting heads of grain, which was not allowed.
 
These have perfectly described the cerimonial laws. The laws that pointed to Christ.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Study this prophecy

Jesus died after 3 and a half years of teaching. In the midst of, in the middle of the week (7 years) Jesus made the sacrifices and oblation to cease.. by His death.

Mat 27:50-51
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Why did God rip the Holy veil in half?

Eph 2:15 KJV Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The whole OC was to be replaced with something better, the NC in Jesus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimiSurvivor
They were hungry and doing God's work — and Jesus Himself defended them without apology. This was not a violation of the Sabbath in God's eyes, only in the rigid, man-made traditions the Pharisees had built like a wall around the Law. Jesus made this crystal clear:
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath. — Mark 2:27–28 (NKJV)

God never intended the Sabbath to become a weapon against hungry people serving Him faithfully. The Pharisees had taken a gift God gave to humanity for rest and restoration and turned it into a crushing burden of hundreds of man-made rules that had nothing to do with God's heart.

And Jesus did not let their accusation stand unchallenged. He pointed them straight back to their own Scriptures — a parallel event they knew well — the moment David and his men ate the consecrated showbread in the house of God, bread that by the letter of the Law was reserved only for the priests:

Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? — Matthew 12:3–4 (NKJV)

Think about what Jesus is doing here. He is pointing to David — the most celebrated king in Israel's history, a man after God's own heart — and saying that when God's servants are hungry and on mission, God's mercy overrides religious technicality. David was not condemned for it. His men were not condemned for it. And neither were the disciples walking through that grain field.

Jesus then added another example they could not argue with — the priests themselves worked on the Sabbath in the Temple, performing sacrifices and duties, and were held completely blameless:
Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?— Matthew 12:5 (NKJV)

The Law itself made provision for those doing God's work. This was not new. This was always God's heart. And then Jesus said something that should have stopped every Pharisee cold:
But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. — Matthew 12:6 (NKJV)

The One who instituted the Sabbath was standing right in front of them — and they were using the Sabbath to accuse Him. Then He struck at the very root of their problem by quoting the prophet Hosea:
But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.— Matthew 12:7 (NKJV)

That phrase — I desire mercy and not sacrifice — comes directly from Hosea 6:6 and it reveals God's heart in one sentence. God was never interested in cold, mechanical religious performance. He was always after a heart of love, compassion, and mercy. The Pharisees had become so obsessed with the outer form that they had completely lost the inner substance. They could tell you exactly how many steps you were allowed to walk on the Sabbath but had no mercy for hungry men doing Kingdom work.

This is exactly what Jesus confronted throughout His ministry. He healed a crippled woman on the Sabbath and the religious ruler of the synagogue was indignant. Jesus answered him:
Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it? So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound — think of it — for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath? — Luke 13:15–16 (NKJV)

He shamed them with their own logic. You will untie your animal and give it water on the Sabbath without a second thought — but you begrudge mercy to a suffering human being made in the image of God? This is what religion without the Spirit produces — people who are meticulous about rules and merciless toward people.

The Old Testament itself gives us another powerful parallel in the priesthood of Melchizedek and in the provision God made in the Law for the poor and the hungry. God specifically commanded in the Law of Moses:
When you come into your neighbor's standing grain, you may pluck the heads with your hand, but you shall not use a sickle on your neighbor's standing grain. — Deuteronomy 23:25 (NKJV)

God built into His own Law the right for a hungry person to pluck grain by hand from a field. This was not stealing. This was not Sabbath-breaking. This was God's own provision for human need. The disciples were doing exactly what the Law of Moses permitted — and the Pharisees and you, called it sin.

The letter of the law kills. Jesus said so Himself and demonstrated it over and over. The entire Sermon on the Mount is Jesus going deeper than the letter into the spirit and heart of the Law:
You have heard that it was said... but I say to you. — Matthew 5 (NKJV)

He did not come to destroy the Law — He came to fulfill it, to show us what it always meant at its deepest level. And at its deepest level the Law was always about love — love for God and love for people. Every rule, every commandment, every feast and Sabbath was meant to point to that. When the Pharisees used the Sabbath to condemn hungry men walking through a grain field with the Son of God Himself, they revealed how completely they had missed the entire point.

Jesus summed up the whole Law in two commandments:
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. — Matthew 22:37–40 (NKJV)

Everything hangs on love. Read the plucking of grain through that lens and tell me where the sin is. There is none. There never was. Only in the cold, loveless, rigid system the Pharisees had constructed in place of genuine relationship with God.

Do not read your Bible like a Pharisee. Read it like someone who is loved by God and loves Him back.
Yawn,
I Know all that.
Your teaching is just basic kindergarten.

We ALL KNOW that Jesus never did wrong.
We all know the spirit opens up the word and illuminates it.

By me saying " plucking corn was breaking the sabboth" it is just a fact.

What was ACTUALLY HAPPENING is Hebrews 3 and 4.

You should read it before trying to correct others.

The one THAT WROTE THE LAW IS GREATER THAN THE LAW.
IOW...GOD IS BIGGER THAN HIS BOOK.

When Jesus was answered concerning his ability to raise the dead, his reply was "I am the resurrection"

You look at Jesus through your " I can " prism as did others.

Heaven sees Jesus through the "I AM" prism.

It is lame accusing someone of being a Pharisees, when, as the Pharisees did, they commended themselves as you do.

You only impress those in your camp, who also probably depend on AI for the things of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TruthDefender
A covenant is not merely an "agreement" like a contract among humans. It involves blood because it represents a binding of one life to another, blood being a symbol of our life.
The OC was full of blood, and the same for the NC (via the ultimate sacrifice, Jesus).
 
I go to my friends place on a Sunday to have a bible study and we often eat together. But this does not change the sabbath from the Seventh-day to the first. It does not make the first day holy and blessed.

God blessed the 7th day and made it holy.

We can gather together every day of the week but that does not change the sabbath.

And you said we are to do things according to the patterns ...

Act 13:42-44 KJV 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. .....44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Only ONE 24 hour day was set aside for holy use.
The OC ceased when Jesus died on the cross, hence the veil was torn into 2, symbolizing the OC vanishing away (nailed to the cross, and the NC came into effect).

There is no more offerings and everything they did under the OC ceased.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimiSurvivor
In that verse, they were plucking/ collecting heads of grain, which was not allowed.
Bingo!!
It is a simple fact.
Those in here think it needs defending.
It does not.

The ACTUAL LESSON is, that under CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES the law is lesser than the need.

But even beyond that Jesus is pointing to WHAT IS ALLOWED BY "OFFICE".
NAMELY THE PRIESTHOOD.

People miss it.
( the changing of thr priesthood)

I noticed nobody in here caught it.
Neither did they catch Hebrews 3 and 4.
 
Bingo!!
It is a simple fact.
Those in here think it needs defending.
It does not.

The ACTUAL LESSON is, that under CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES the law is lesser than the need.

But even beyond that Jesus is pointing to WHAT IS ALLOWED BY "OFFICE".
NAMELY THE PRIESTHOOD.

People miss it.
( the changing of thr priesthood)

I noticed nobody in here caught it.
Neither did they catch Hebrews 3 and 4.
This is not the only thing they’re missing; complete understanding of the OC vs the NC. It seems to be flying overhead!

I mean this in a sincere way!! :)
 
In that verse, they were plucking/ collecting heads of grain, which was not allowed.
Not collecting or harvesting, eating because they were hungry, the idea that not eating on the Sabbath is a sin, does not come from Scripture. The idea that God is not a God of love, picking an apple from the garden or heads of grain because that's all available because someone is hungry as not allowed, may not have a good understanding of the character of God.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Why Jesus said they were guiltless, because it wasn't a sin, it was a false accusation

Mat 12:7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vassal and Qt
This is not the only thing they’re missing; complete understanding of the OC vs the NC. It seems to be flying overhead!

I mean this in a sincere way!! :)
Or perhaps, maybe one doesn;t understand the law of God going from tablets of stone, to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God keeping His promise not to change the words Psa 89:34 because you can't make something perfect, more perfect Psa 19:7 or something God made holy more holy Rom7:12 perhaps its us that needs to change our understanding and not God's laws that needs to change. Its always been the harden heart of man that's been the issue, not God's laws.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vassal
How does one come to the conclusion that faith means doing the opposite of what God asked. John14:15 Exo20:6

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
The law that requires our death is established, in Christ. And the life that you now live is in Christ (Gal 2:20).
 
The whole OC was to be replaced with something better, the NC in Jesus.
And nowhere are we told that the new covenant does not contain the moral laws, the 10.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
 
  • Like
Reactions: SabbathBlessing
The OC ceased when Jesus died on the cross, hence the veil was torn into 2, symbolizing the OC vanishing away (nailed to the cross, and the NC came into effect).

There is no more offerings and everything they did under the OC ceased.
If a new covenant is to be written today, do you have to make everything in the old void. Do you need to abolish all the principles and laws in the old and not use them in the new??

True there are changes between the old and new but you presume that the perfect moral law can not be part of the new just because they were part of the Old.

The moral laws about lying and stealing are still very relevant today and they were part of the Old.

The blood offering ceased because Jesus is the Lamb. He is the sacrifice that they all pointed to.

But the moral laws have not ceased.. they are not replaced by Jesus. We are encouraged to live like Jesus.

Rom 6:6-18
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

We should not serve sin.... let not sin reign in you....

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Obedience unto righteousness..
Obey what? Which laws?
 
Jesus is the Holy life that we have been promised by faith.

Imputed righteousness
Imparted righteousness.

To think that we can continue in sin or reject the Holy Spirit from changing our heart and be saved is to be deluded.

Jesus came to save us from sin and sadly many Christians are living IN sin thinking they are saved.. this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitians..

Rev 2:6 KJV But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

We do not use the grace of Jesus as an excuse to continue in sin. We love sin with the flesh... but that is not an excuse to sin.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

The big picture is that Jesus died so that we could be filled with His Spirit and walk in the righteousness that He did.

He came to save us from sin.
Jesus has already saved us from sin and death, done deal.

That is why we rejoice in Jesus Christ.

Philippians 4:4-9
Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentle spirit be known to all men.
The Lord is near. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with
thanksgiving
let your requests be made known to God. ...

Philippians 4:4
Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice!

1 Thessalonians 5:16
Rejoice always.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
Jesus is the Holy life that we have been promised by faith.

Imputed righteousness
Imparted righteousness.

To think that we can continue in sin or reject the Holy Spirit from changing our heart and be saved is to be deluded.

Jesus came to save us from sin and sadly many Christians are living IN sin thinking they are saved.. this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitians..

Rev 2:6 KJV But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

We do not use the grace of Jesus as an excuse to continue in sin. We love sin with the flesh... but that is not an excuse to sin.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

The big picture is that Jesus died so that we could be filled with His Spirit and walk in the righteousness that He did.

He came to save us from sin.
We were saved past tense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan
The law that requires our death is established, in Christ. And the life that you now live is in Christ (Gal 2:20).
This verse is telling us we need to die of self and sin, not live in it. Heb10:26-30

Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments. John14:12 faith establishes the law of God, not deletes it Rom3:31. Not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter into the gates of heaven Mat7:21-23, we need to die of our own selfish desires and live for Christ. Why would someone in Christ want to worship other gods, or vain His name or steal or not join themselves to Christ as He asks or break the least of these commandments, the opposite of what Christ said Mat5:19-30