The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Cameron143]

Yes, it vanished at the death of Christ as stated Heb9:15 not 70AD, which you have provided no Scripture to support this.

Hebrews was written well after Christ's death. Hebrews 8:13 says it is waning.

What is the purpose of the book of Revelation?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Hebrews was written well after Christ's death. Hebrews 8:13 says it is waning.

What is the purpose of the book of Revelation?

This is non responsive to what I asked you to prove from Scripture. If there was a verse that said God's covenant ratified in 70AD instead of His death as the Scripture says you would have provided it by now. That is the only Scripture I am interested in have you prove by the statements you made

 

[Cameron143]

This is non responsive to what I asked you to prove from Scripture. If there was a verse that said God's covenant ratified in 70AD instead of His death as the Scripture says you would have provided it by now. That is the only Scripture I am interested in have you prove by the statements you made

I don't have time to look up relevant verses currently, but if you will answer the questions you will have your answer.

What is the book of Revelation about?

 

[vassal]

70AD was the destruction of the temple and the destruction of lineage records.

I don't have time to go through the references now, but Hebrews speaks to a waning covenant, there is a parable where the son of the vineyard owner is killed, etc.

I also don't have time to outline Revelation and Deuteronomy at present. Both books have the same outline with the exception that one initiates a covenant and the latter tells of the soon coming sanctions forewarned for failing to keep said covenant.

ill wait no problem

 

[vassal]

I don't have time to look up relevant verses currently, but if you will answer the questions you will have your answer.

What is the book of Revelation about?

we are patient and will wait for your answer its no problem

 

[Cameron143]

ill wait no problem

BTW...what is the purpose of the book of Revelation? Also, what is the fulfillment of the parable in Matthew 21:33-46?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Basically with this misunderstanding of Scripture Paul is teaching that Jesus who is God placed people in a yoke of bondage and only worshipping Him or keeping His name holy , not murdering our neighbor or committing adultery or breaking the least of these commandments as Jesus taught us to keep and teach others to keep Mat5:19-30 , but Paul had to save us from Christ and what He taught to do if we love Him John14:15 Exo20:6 but its not really love that Christ asks, but a yoke of bondage to obey God. I see why there is such a strong warning about what people would do to Paul's writings in Scripture, it makes me wonder if those who make these argument even read the Bible or just do a word search and leave out all of the context and never try to see how it compares to what God said, as if the servant became God's corrector.

Trying to obey God without first knowing His love first-hand will always be perceived as BURDENSOME. This is why Jesus, invites us to come and learn of him BY EXPERIENCE:
…28 Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”…
(Matthew 11:28-30)
The fact that we are yoked together with Christ shows that we have surrendered our lives to him and are following Him. When we do this He promises to give rest to our souls. The yoke of the Law does not bring rest only endless striving to obey completely the commandments, statutes and legal ordinances. Paul originally thought he could make himself pleasing to God by obeying the Law completely. Although he He tried again and again he failed, sinned and fell into condemnation. Paul found that, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, he could not. This happened because something was missing inside - the Holy Spirit who provides the POWER to live. This is why the Old Covenant could not transform a person while the New Covenant could (Hebrews 8:6-10)

 

[TruthDefender]

where is this from?"
""Didn’t many Jews kill our God by insisting that He should die? This was prophesied.""



"

Psalm 22
Isaiah 52-53
I believe all 4 gospels (1st 4 books) mention this topic.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I don't have time to look up relevant verses currently, but if you will answer the questions you will have your answer.

What is the book of Revelation about?

I will wait until you can find the verse for your claim. Thanks

 

[TruthDefender]

When Jesus rose, the new covenant was put into effect. The old covenant wasn't done away with until the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

The OC was nailed to the cross, when He died.

“having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

-"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body."
John 2:19-21 NKJV

-"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?""
John 5:46-47 NKJV

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Trying to obey God without first knowing His love first-hand will always be perceived as BURDENSOME. This is why Jesus, invites us to come and learn of him BY EXPERIENCE:
…28 Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”…
(Matthew 11:28-30)
The fact that we are yoked together with Christ shows that we have surrendered our lives to him and are following Him. When we do this He promises to give rest to our souls. The yoke of the Law does not bring rest only endless striving to obey completely the commandments, statutes and legal ordinances. Paul originally thought he could make himself pleasing to God by obeying the Law completely. Although he He tried again and again he failed, sinned and fell into condemnation. Paul found that, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, he could not. This happened because something was missing inside - the Holy Spirit who provides the POWER to live. This is why the Old Covenant could not transform a person while the New Covenant could (Hebrews 8:6-10)

So are you saying Abraham, Isaac, Joseph Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Enoch, Daniel etc were not transformed? Are you sure about that?

Jesus said I will give you rest- what is He quoting? He said this and still kept the Sabbath according to the commandment- so the rest He gives was never in lieu of obeying one of His commandments, its quite the opposite.

 

[Cameron143]

I will wait until you can find the verse for your claim. Thanks

It would be helpful to receive an answer to better prepare an answer. Also, who was the parable in Matthew 21:33-46 written about and when was it fulfilled?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The OC was nailed to the cross, when He died.

“having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

-"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body."
John 2:19-21 NKJV

-"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?""
John 5:46-47 NKJV

Can you explain from Scripture what are the handwriting of requirements or ordinances are please.

 

[TruthDefender]

No one was trying to throw sand in your face but if you felt that I was, my apologies. You were trying to connect The Ten Commandments as being a yoke of bondage. This is a serious allegation against God, just like saying Jesus sinned I was only trying to connect them on the gravity, not bring up the misunderstanding of Jesus and Sabbath-keeping.

But I will tell you why relating the Ten Commandments to the work of bondage is so dangerous,


Psa 33:4 For the word of the Lord is right,
And all His work is done in truth.

God claims the Ten Commandments is the work of God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

God personally wrote the Ten Commandments and it is His work, not mans, its the Testimony of God Exo31:18. It is His standard of right-doing Psa 119:172 and its eternal Psa 119:142 why His works is done in Truth, why all His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 because God is our standard for Truth and Righteousness not anyone else and He tells us what that is but will we beleive Him.

To claim the law of God is bondage when God is saying its His work and its done in Truth and only the Truth sets us free- is saying God is producing bad works, His fruits are bad.

Its why we have to be very careful with the way we interpret Paul's writings. Paul was a self-proclaimed servant of God and would never say God's works produces bad fruit.

So regarding your first sentence, I have again invited you to explain the verses you quote through the context of the very passages and every time you have declined. You might want to take that into consideration before you accuse others. I will always explain my reasoning from Scriptures if asked, if I haven't already done so in what I post.

Once again, the 10 commandments aren’t the yoke of bondage that He is referring to. The yoke of bondage = the OC/ OT.

The OC/ OT was fulfilled at the death of our King and Savior.

We live under the NC, today.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It would be helpful to receive an answer to better prepare an answer. Also, who was the parable in Matthew 21:33-46 written about and when was it fulfilled?

If it was there one could simply produce the verse that says the Old Covenant ended in 70AD instead of when Scripture says at the death of the testator.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

So you would need to prove two things, that the author of Hebrews is mistaken and where it says the new covenant starts at 70AD 30+ years after the death of Christ.

I'll wait for this Scripture.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Once again, the 10 commandments aren’t the yoke of bondage that He is referring to. The yoke of bondage = the OC/ OT.

The OC/ OT was fulfilled at the death of our King and Savior.

The Ten Commandments is the OC/OT Exo34:28 and its the same God in the OT/OC as it is in the NT/NC and God does not change according to Him, so that's exactly what you are saying, when you make statements like this .

The agreement ended, but God wrote a new agreement established on better promises. Heb8:6 and it still has God's laws Heb8:10 because that was never the issue, the same issue with us Heb3:7-19

Also not sure if you saw this.....but can you please respond to the entire context of Mat5:17 of what Jesus was predicted to fulfill with His law.

Regarding Mat5:17

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus plainly said He did not come to destroy the law, but instead He came to fulfill.

What was prophesized that Jesus would do to His law that He fulfilled?

Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Magnify means make larger, not end, not to destroy as Jesus said plainly.

Which we see Jesus doing with the Ten Commandments in this very passage! Relating anger to thou shalt not murder, relating thoughts of lust with thou shalt not commit murder. This is how much Jesus does not want us to sin and break His commandments, not to even have thoughts that lead to breaking them and He goes on to say in doing so one is sinning and will be in fear of Judgement. Mat5:17-30

Why Jesus said plainly

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Its not that Jesus did not make Himself clear that He wants us to keep His commandments- He wrote them, He spoke them, He came in the flesh to magnify them, He taught them He kept them - the issue is not that He was not clear, the issue is our unbelief to live out what He says.

 

[Cameron143]

The OC was nailed to the cross, when He died.

“having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

-"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body."
John 2:19-21 NKJV

-"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?""
John 5:46-47 NKJV

Read Hebrews 8:13. The old covenant was still waning well after Jesus' death. The covenant could not end until the sanctions promised were fulfilled. That didn't happen until 70AD.

Col.2:14 refers to those under the new covenant...the "us".

 

[Cameron143]

If it was there one could simply produce the verse that says the Old Covenant ended in 70AD instead of when Scripture says at the death of the testator.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

So you would need to prove two things, that the author of Hebrews is mistaken and where it says the new covenant starts at 70AD 30+ years after the death of Christ.

I'll wait for this Scripture.

There are no verses that say...70AD. That's why I'm asking questions to see what you actually understand.

Hebrews 9:15 does establish the new covenant, but it says nothing about ending the old covenant. There are many sanctions promised under the old covenant for failure to keep the covenant. When were those sanctions carried out?

You still haven't dealt with with Hebrews 8:13. What covenant is waning?

Please answer as to the purpose of the book of Revelation. 1 or 2 sentences is fine. I'm trying to understand what you understand to better answer.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

There are no verses that say...70AD. That's why I'm asking questions to see what you actually understand.

Hebrews 9:15 does establish the new covenant, but it says nothing about ending the old covenant. There are many sanctions promised under the old covenant for failure to keep the covenant. When were those sanctions carried out?

You still haven't dealt with with Hebrews 8:13. What covenant is waning?

Please answer as to the purpose of the book of Revelation. 1 or 2 sentences is fine. I'm trying to understand what you understand to better answer.

This is according to Scripture

Heb 10: 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second.

The veil of the temple was torn at the death of Christ, not 70AD. Jesus ministers from a heavenly Temple, not made with human hands after His death. Heb8:1-5 Heb9:23-28. With the blood of Jesus at His Cross, He ended all sacrificial offerings for sin. He allowed the temple to continue on for a while, but the sacrifices were meaningless and had nothing to do with His covenant ending.

Again, I am not interested in anything else but this Scripture, if you can't find it I would consider teaching only what can be supported by Scripture. We are told not to add anything to it. But of course we have free will.

 

[Inquisitor]

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

According to you Jesus removed 98% of the law and the prophets.

Then you highlight the verse below.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets

Not only was 98% of the law shredded the covenant between God and Israel ended.

I can see a contradiction here?

Did Jesus fulfill the ten commandments or not?

If Jesus fulfilled the ten commandments then, the entire law has passed.

That is why Paul makes statements like the one below.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

You cannot hold onto to the law and Jesus at the same time.