So what God said is not the important? God never said one in seven, He was specific. This mindset is what cause this whole issue in the first place where they thought it was just a tree, what difference does a tree make, yet their disobedience caused the great fall. God only blessed and sactified one day and made it a commandment. I say its important to God.
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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The Bible uses the Greek word “dogma” to refer to something other than the Law of God every other time that it is used outside of Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15, so justification needs to be given for why those verses should be interpreted as referring to the Law of God, especially in light of the fact that it would contradict the surrounding verses and the broader context of verses like Psalm 119:160 that says that all of God’s righteous laws are eternal. That is a different issue that the distinction between the Law of God, the law of sin, and works of the law.
If God commanded to keep the 7th day holy and Paul were to that we should not obey what God has commanded, then who would have the higher authority and which one should we follow?
It is not as though the concept of salvation wasn't invented until the NT. The Psalms were written by Israelites for Israelites, so I don't see how you can claim that it has nothing to do with Israel. The Bible often refers to the Mosaic Covenant in terms of being a marriage between God and Israel, so the whole point of the Mosaic Covenant is to teach how to have an intimate relationship with God. God graciously teaching us to obey His law is not something that happens apart from us obeying His law.
People have their own reasons and there have been many Gentiles who have chosen to do that. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law, and there are many other verses that repeatedly affirm this. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith hat we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience to brings death and a curse, so choose life! The way for someone to choose death is by refusing to obey the Mosaic Law.
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TruthDefender
Guest
Who said they were becoming Jews, other than you? Why would Paul spend energy on someone converting to Judaism? These were Jews who had converted to christianity sliding back into their traditions.
T
TruthDefender
Guest
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound (words) has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.”
But I say, did Israel not know?
First Moses says: “I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me (Jesus); I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.””
Romans 10:16-21 NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound (words) has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.”
But I say, did Israel not know?
First Moses says: “I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me (Jesus); I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.””
Romans 10:16-21 NKJV
T
TruthDefender
Guest
You seem to say just the opposite of His word.
“For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Romans 10:3-4 NKJV
Yes, and the law of Moses has no application to Jewish believers either; all are one in Christ (Gal. 3:28, Eph. 2: 11-18, Heb. 7:11-10:1).
T
TruthDefender
Guest
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Unfortunately, none keeps the law anyway, even if they are trying to live under the law.
-"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."
Galatians 2:16 NKJV
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Which is completely the opposite of what the letter of Romans is about, in that section!
True: all have sinned (Rom. 3:23).
God's Two Commandments:
Faith (Matt. 22:37-38, Gal. 5:6a, Eph. 2:8-9)
and Love (Matt. 22:39-40, Gal. 6b, Eph. 2:10).
These comprise the new covenant (Heb. 7:11-10:1).
Lets look at God's Greatest Commandments
Mat 22:27 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
Which Jesus was quoting OT Deut6:5 Lev 19:18
So they are grounded in OT principles, not new ones.
When it comes to loving someone, is it based on what we feel on how we are to love someone or should it be based on what that person tells us is how to love them. In the case of God, He only taught loving Him with the accordance of keeping His commandments. So how can we love God with all our heart, soul and mind but not keep His commandments. The answer is plainly you can't. So to separate the greatest commandments to love God with our all, from the Ten Commandments where God tells us how to love Him, is sadly a very deceitful doctrine.
The first time God introduces this principle of how we are to love Him is right in the Testimony of God - written by God, spoken by God. God literally tells us how to love Him so its impossible to separate the greatest commandments from the commandments on how God tells us to love Him.
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
If we look at the first time loving God with all our heart, mind and soul was stated, what was happening when this was stated.
The Ten Commandments right where love to God was written down by God Himself was repeated- 40 years after God have them His commandments both spoken by God and written by God.
After they were repeated this was stated...
Deut 6:1 “Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and [a]be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’
4 “Hear, O Israel: [b]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Keep God's commands in your heart
Teach them to your children
Talk about them daily
Let His Word guide your life constantly
Why this is such a dangerous teaching :
They can't be elevated above the Ten if the Ten are not included on how God tells us how to love Him. Why Jesus will say why do you call me LORD LORD and not do what I say. Loving God on our own terms is selfish love- God is looking for those who love Him with all their heart, mind and soul. God tells how to love Him- it wasn't like He wasn't clear- He both spoke it and wrote it personally.
And it includes the 4th commandment, because the greatest commandments to love God with all their heart, mind and soul was the condition of the Israelites receiving their inheritance:
But what happened, did they love God with all their heart, mind and soul and received their inheritance?
Sadly many did not because....
The Sabbath is part of the greatest commandments to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. Profaning the Sabbath God relates to breaking another commandment- idol worship because we are replacing the words of God with another voice.
The devil is trying to take away our inheritance as well that we have not yet entered Rev22:14
Will we listen to the same voices that deceived those in the wilderness we are told not to follow in their example of disobedience Heb4:11 or will we join ourselves to the LORD Isa 56:6 and stay faithful to Him not forgetting something He asked us to Remember. Exo20:8-11 and keep if we love Him Exo20:6 both written and spoken by God. God tells us how to love Him- will we beleive Him is the bigger question.
Mat 22:27 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
Which Jesus was quoting OT Deut6:5 Lev 19:18
So they are grounded in OT principles, not new ones.
When it comes to loving someone, is it based on what we feel on how we are to love someone or should it be based on what that person tells us is how to love them. In the case of God, He only taught loving Him with the accordance of keeping His commandments. So how can we love God with all our heart, soul and mind but not keep His commandments. The answer is plainly you can't. So to separate the greatest commandments to love God with our all, from the Ten Commandments where God tells us how to love Him, is sadly a very deceitful doctrine.
The first time God introduces this principle of how we are to love Him is right in the Testimony of God - written by God, spoken by God. God literally tells us how to love Him so its impossible to separate the greatest commandments from the commandments on how God tells us to love Him.
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
If we look at the first time loving God with all our heart, mind and soul was stated, what was happening when this was stated.
The Ten Commandments right where love to God was written down by God Himself was repeated- 40 years after God have them His commandments both spoken by God and written by God.
After they were repeated this was stated...
Deut 6:1 “Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged. 3 Therefore hear, O Israel, and [a]be careful to observe it, that it may be well with you, and that you may multiply greatly as the Lord God of your fathers has promised you—‘a land flowing with milk and honey.’
4 “Hear, O Israel: [b]The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Keep God's commands in your heart
Teach them to your children
Talk about them daily
Let His Word guide your life constantly
Why this is such a dangerous teaching :
They can't be elevated above the Ten if the Ten are not included on how God tells us how to love Him. Why Jesus will say why do you call me LORD LORD and not do what I say. Loving God on our own terms is selfish love- God is looking for those who love Him with all their heart, mind and soul. God tells how to love Him- it wasn't like He wasn't clear- He both spoke it and wrote it personally.
And it includes the 4th commandment, because the greatest commandments to love God with all their heart, mind and soul was the condition of the Israelites receiving their inheritance:
But what happened, did they love God with all their heart, mind and soul and received their inheritance?
Sadly many did not because....
The Sabbath is part of the greatest commandments to love God with all our heart, mind and soul. Profaning the Sabbath God relates to breaking another commandment- idol worship because we are replacing the words of God with another voice.
The devil is trying to take away our inheritance as well that we have not yet entered Rev22:14
Will we listen to the same voices that deceived those in the wilderness we are told not to follow in their example of disobedience Heb4:11 or will we join ourselves to the LORD Isa 56:6 and stay faithful to Him not forgetting something He asked us to Remember. Exo20:8-11 and keep if we love Him Exo20:6 both written and spoken by God. God tells us how to love Him- will we beleive Him is the bigger question.
a. When did I say Abraham, Isaac, Joseph Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Enoch, Daniel (etc) were not transformed (at all)? These men are recognized as being Holy men of God. It was for this reason that I have studied them. The promise of the Spirit was meant to bless and empower multitudes of followers to practice the 9 spiritual gifts. Under the OC relatively few individuals demonstrated spiritual gifts. Elijah and Elisha were exceptions. Jesus wanted those He called disciples to experience the realm of the supernatural.
b. This is evident in the fact that God poured out His Spirit on all flesh which was the fulfillement of the prophecy in Joel 2:28–32
Then afterward I will pour out My Spirit on all humanity; your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, and your young men will see visions. Even on My menservants and maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
c. Jesus said I will give you rest- what is He quoting?
What gives you the idea He was quoting some source other than Himself. Does the Messianic title Prince of Peace not suggest that we can find peace through Him?
d. What He said this and still kept the Sabbath according to the commandment
You can keep Shabbat and not have the peace with God Jesus was offering. Where, in the passage did He even mention Shabbat? No Jesus was speaking about something He Himself was promising to do for all those who relied on and put their trust in Him. Had He only been speaking about the Shabbat LAW He would have simply told them to "keep Shabbat and that (PRACTICE) will give you rest. Take the yoke of Shabbat on you" However, Jesus was not just another Rabbi exhorting the Jews to keep the Law. He was inviting those who would be His disciples to take HIS YOKE ON THEM. His yoke signifies submitting to Him and serving Him. Shabbat only granted a a person the permission to cease working. However, as everyone knows, simply not going to work does not necessarily bring inner peace and rest to the emotions and mind. A person could stay home and worry all day ABOUT what they had not done and about what would occur when Shabbat was over. The "rest" Messiah offered was spiritual life and peace with God.
No, the law cannot do that. It is the Spirit that gives life. The law tells what righteousness is. The Spirit imparts righteousness.
Salvation has always been by grace through faith. Grace was emphasized in the 2nd Adamic, Noatic, Abrahamic, and Davidic covenants. The Mosaic covenant, though given in grace, was a works covenant. It was never about salvation. It was given to preserve a people so they wouldn't be destroyed and remain in the land for Messiah to come.
Because of this statement you made
Paul found that, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, he could not. This happened because something was missing inside - the Holy Spirit who provides the POWER to live. This is why the Old Covenant could not transform a person while the New Covenant could (Hebrews 8:6-10)
Which we see from Scripture that is not the case. The issue was never the covenant- the issue is the harden heart of man accepting the word of God over their own words or will. Its the same issue than as it is for now. Heb3:7-19. Its not belief in God, people in the OT believed in God, they just placed their will over God's will. The main different in the NT is how we go about forgiveness of sins, sin itself never changed and the law of God going for external (tablets of stone) to internal (tablets of the heart) if we do not rebel Rom8:7-8
I will show you what He is quoting and the rest He gives is from our sins. This is a bible study I did on this subject
Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Many believe and teach Christ's rest some how relieves our moral obligation to obey the Sabbath commandment, but is this what Jesus is teaching?
Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath going to church reading God's word Luke 4:16 as the apostles did following in His footsteps keeping every Sabbath in the same manner decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 as the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and we see that continuing on in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23
So what rest is Christ referring to?
Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
The rest Jesus is giving us when we come to Him is rest from our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30
Sin is:
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11-12 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
We also see this play out in the last days
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Compared to the antidote found in the next verse
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also (in addition) ceased from his works as God did from His.
God ceased from His works on the seventh day, Heb 4:4 Gen 2:1-3 just like God commanded us to Exo 20:8-11 as we were made in His image and likeness so to enter His rest one also ceases from work on the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:10
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience
We don't want to follow the same mistakes of the Israelites who sinned and never entered their rest in Canaan, which is a type of heaven. The same applies to us to enter in Heaven Rev 22:14
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
In Christ rest no one is in rebellion or breaking God's law, why there is just peace
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Jesus is coming soon and we need to come out of our rebellion to Him and obey Him and His commandments, His version, God’s own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 written personally by God, His law and will Psa 40:8, It’s why we see the ark of the covenant, which holds God’s personal Testimony, the Ten Commandments written and spoken by the God of the Universe revealed at the last Trumpet before Jesus comes in all His Glory Rev 11:19 as it is the standard of what God will judge all man 2 Cor 5:10 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15 and removing anything God covers under His mercy seat which below sits God’s Testimony His Ten Commandments, laying it aside as to say its not for me, I do not believe that's going to work out so well as Jesus taught plainly Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13
So lets be willing to forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and come to Jesus, He will give us rest.
In Isaiah 45:17, it says that all Israel, it says that all of Israel shall be saved, which has led some to hold the position that the way for Gentiles to become saved is by converting to being Jews, which is a position that Paul referred to as "works of the law" and which he was strongly opposed to. So there were Gentiles who were facing pressure to convert to being Jews in order to become saved and some of them were doing that, which is the basis for the whole situation that Paul was addressing about circumcision. In Romans 2:17-29, Paul addressed those who call themselves Jews, so he was not addressing native Jews, but rather he was addressing Gentiles who have converted to being Jews and were now calling themselves Jews, but they were not obeying the Law of Moses, so Paul was making the point that being a Jew is not just about being physically circumcised but also about having a circumcised heart, which is evident by our obedience to the Law of Moses.
Jesus spent his ministry teaching how to practice Judaism by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and the whole point of spreading the Gospel to Gentiles calling for repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is to make converts to Judaism. In Acts 24:14, Paul testified that according to The Way, which they call a sect, he continued to worship the God of their fathers, believing everything laid down by the Torah and written in the Prophets, and the religion that The Way is a sect of is Judaism, so that was the whole point his ministry to Gentiles.
Paul notably didn't say anything in Romans 2 about them sliding back into their traditions.
In Mathew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which means that the way to obey the Gospel is by obeying the Mosaic Law.
Trying to establish our own righteousness has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the Law of Moses. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israeli might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.
In Romans 9:30-10:4, the Israelites had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as thought righteousness were earned as the result of their works instead of pursuing it as though righteousness is by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Law of Moses is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are committing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending the Law of Moses but just the opposite. It doesn't even make sense to think that God's Word made flesh ended God's Word, but rather he is the goal of God's Word.