The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[Rob7]

@SabbathBlessing Blessing Brother !

According to the writings of Ellen G. White and the Adventist pioneers, the proper way to deal with apostate Protestant Christians (those who profess Christianity but teach or practice disobedience to God’s law, especially the Sabbath) is to follow the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19-20 (KJV): “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”

We are to teach the full truth about Jesus—including His righteousness that produces obedience—calmly and positively in a spirit of love and humility, without primarily engaging in debating the Scriptures. Debates and controversy generally do more harm than good; the Holy Spirit alone convicts, converts, and compels the heart to true righteousness. The pioneers (such as James White, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith) followed this same counsel in their public lectures and writings, focusing on proclaiming present truth through prophecy and the Bible rather than contention.

Ellen White is explicit in Evangelism (the section “The Debate”):

“In some cases, it may be necessary to meet a proud boaster against the truth of God in open debate; but generally these discussions, either oral or written, result in more harm than good.”
“God is seldom glorified or the truth advanced in these combats.”
“The spirit of debate, of controversy, is a device of Satan to stir up combativeness, and thus eclipse the truth as it is in Jesus. Many have thus been repulsed instead of being won to Christ.”
“The best way to deal with error is to present the truth, and leave wild ideas to die for want of notice. Contrasted with truth, the weakness of error is made apparent to every intelligent mind.”
She warns that debates create excitement without heart-conviction, harden opposition, and repulse souls: “Fierce opposition is thus created… Calm consideration and judgment are wanting.” Even when opposition must be briefly met, it is to be done “promptly and briefly,” “in humility, with the deepest love for souls,” never in a defiant or railing spirit (as Goliath defied Israel; we are to be like David relying on God, or Michael who said only “The Lord rebuke thee”).

Instead of debate, the manner of presenting truth is everything. In the same book she continues:

“The manner in which the truth is presented often has much to do in determining whether it will be accepted or rejected… Instead of imitating Christ in His manner of labor, many are severe, critical, and dictatorial. They repulse instead of winning souls… We hunger not for excitement, for the sensational… The calm, earnest reasoning from the Scriptures is precious and fruitful. Here is the secret of success, in preaching a living personal Saviour in so simple and earnest a manner… Let the people see you exalting Jesus, and hiding self… He who is shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace will walk as Christ walked. He will… deal tenderly with every heart, realizing that the Spirit will impress the truth on those who are susceptible to divine impressions. Never will he be vehement in his manner. Every word spoken will have a softening, subduing influence.”
In The Desire of Ages (chapter “Go Teach All Nations,” commenting directly on Matthew 28:19-20), she explains the commission is for all believers, not just ministers, and must be carried out positively:

“The disciples were to be colaborers with their Redeemer in the work of saving the world… They must teach obedience to all Christ commanded… The gospel is to be presented as a living force to change lives, not as a lifeless theory… All who receive Christ’s life are ordained to work for the salvation of their fellow men… Begin where you are… The humblest worker, moved by the Holy Spirit, touches chords that will vibrate to the ends of the earth.”

The Holy Spirit is the One who does the real work of compelling to righteousness. He is “the agent that opens human minds to the truth” and convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). We proclaim Christ and His commandments; the Spirit convicts the conscience, breaks the heart, and leads to genuine obedience and conversion. Excitement from debate produces only temporary feelings; the Spirit produces lasting fruit. Ellen White repeatedly ties this to the promise “Lo, I am with you alway” (through the Holy Spirit’s power, as at Pentecost and in the latter rain).

The Adventist pioneers practiced exactly this approach in their evangelism and publications (e.g., The Present Truth, Review and Herald). They presented the Sabbath, the sanctuary, and the three angels’ messages as positive Bible truth, inviting honest inquiry and letting the Spirit convince hearers—rather than staging debates that would stir combativeness or identify truth with harshness.

In summary: With apostate Protestant Christians, do not seek to provoke or engage in Scripture debates (which Satan uses to eclipse “the truth as it is in Jesus”). Teach the full gospel and present truth as in the Great Commission—lifting up Jesus, His law, and His righteousness—calmly, tenderly, and in love. Then trust the Holy Spirit to open minds, convict of disobedience, impart Christ’s righteousness, and compel the soul to obedience. This is the method that glorifies God, wins souls, and fulfills the commission given to us until the end of the world. As Ellen White counsels: “Present the truth in humility, with the deepest love for souls… and let the truth cut.” The Holy Spirit will do the rest.

This has been and still is a hard lesson for me to learn, because of my loving The Lord as I do ... and utterly hate people corrupting His Character and teaching others to do the same. This goes along with my needing to have a loving attitude towards them, as in Pray for and Love your enemies, as Jesus did.

Okay ! I'm very busy getting ready for these soon to come "Food shortages" for one thing, ( ie The famines of the Bibles End Time Prophecies) ( as in putting out a BIG garden this years ) Prophecies coming to fruition by Zionist Trump's War of doing the bidding of Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu. Now Iran having the world over a barrel, and cutting off oil, NLP and fertilizers ( 1/3 of the worlds fertilizer comes thru the Straight of Hormuz ) ... and Trump nor our military can do nothing about it ) So as we've been telling all Friends, Families and the Brethren, "Get ready, Get Ready, Get Ready," cuz the End of Days is here. It going to get VERY UGLY, here VERY soon, ( Like, maybe TOMORROW )

++++++++++ ~~ Have a Blessed Day ~~ ++++++++++​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

@SabbathBlessing Blessing Brother !

According to the writings of Ellen G. White and the Adventist pioneers, the proper way to deal with apostate Protestant Christians (those who profess Christianity but teach or practice disobedience to God’s law, especially the Sabbath) is to follow the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19-20 (KJV): “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”

We are to teach the full truth about Jesus—including His righteousness that produces obedience—calmly and positively in a spirit of love and humility, without primarily engaging in debating the Scriptures. Debates and controversy generally do more harm than good; the Holy Spirit alone convicts, converts, and compels the heart to true righteousness. The pioneers (such as James White, J.N. Andrews, and Uriah Smith) followed this same counsel in their public lectures and writings, focusing on proclaiming present truth through prophecy and the Bible rather than contention.



Instead of debate, the manner of presenting truth is everything. In the same book she continues:





The Holy Spirit is the One who does the real work of compelling to righteousness. He is “the agent that opens human minds to the truth” and convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). We proclaim Christ and His commandments; the Spirit convicts the conscience, breaks the heart, and leads to genuine obedience and conversion. Excitement from debate produces only temporary feelings; the Spirit produces lasting fruit. Ellen White repeatedly ties this to the promise “Lo, I am with you alway” (through the Holy Spirit’s power, as at Pentecost and in the latter rain).

The Adventist pioneers practiced exactly this approach in their evangelism and publications (e.g., The Present Truth, Review and Herald). They presented the Sabbath, the sanctuary, and the three angels’ messages as positive Bible truth, inviting honest inquiry and letting the Spirit convince hearers—rather than staging debates that would stir combativeness or identify truth with harshness.

In summary: With apostate Protestant Christians, do not seek to provoke or engage in Scripture debates (which Satan uses to eclipse “the truth as it is in Jesus”). Teach the full gospel and present truth as in the Great Commission—lifting up Jesus, His law, and His righteousness—calmly, tenderly, and in love. Then trust the Holy Spirit to open minds, convict of disobedience, impart Christ’s righteousness, and compel the soul to obedience. This is the method that glorifies God, wins souls, and fulfills the commission given to us until the end of the world. As Ellen White counsels: “Present the truth in humility, with the deepest love for souls… and let the truth cut.” The Holy Spirit will do the rest.

This has been and still is a hard lesson for me to learn, because of my loving The Lord as I do ... and utterly hate people corrupting His Character and teaching others to do the same. This goes along with my needing to have a loving attitude towards them, as in Pray for and Love your enemies, as Jesus did.

Okay ! I'm very busy getting ready for these soon to come "Food shortages" for one thing, ( ie The famines of the Bibles End Time Prophecies) ( as in putting out a BIG garden this years ) Prophecies coming to fruition by Zionist Trump's War of doing the bidding of Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu. Now Iran having the world over a barrel, and cutting off oil, NLP and fertilizers ( 1/3 of the worlds fertilizer comes thru the Straight of Hormuz ) ... and Trump nor our military can do nothing about it ) So as we've been telling all Friends, Families and the Brethren, "Get ready, Get Ready, Get Ready," cuz the End of Days is here. It going to get VERY UGLY, here VERY soon, ( Like, maybe TOMORROW )

++++++++++ ~~ Have a Blessed Day ~~ ++++++++++​

I agree 100% we all need to do a better job of this and calling people a false prophet no matter which side we are on is not the way to do this. Thanks brother for sharing. As a FYI- I am a siter.

 

[pinebeach]

A 2016 pooled analysis of over 60,000 UK residents confirmed that low meat eaters, fish eaters, and
vegetarians had similar all-cause mortality to regular meat eaters.

Interesting story. I once had a doctor's wife in an art class and she was suffering with her health. She thought she might have to have an operation. Turns out, she was suffering from very low B12 which occured because she was a vegetarian. She had grown up on a farm and had bad memories of how animals were slaughtered and decided she would no longer eat anything that was animal in origin.

Finally she was administered B12 shots and her symptoms started to clear up until she was no longer suffering from bad health. They were an older couple and her retired dr husband had no clue apparently. Makes you wonder.

 

[pinebeach]

why this ridiculous question?

Well, that would be because of the ridiculous twisting of scripture that you and several others here evidence. If sabbath could not mock and deride, this thread would not have reached 271 pages.

 

[pinebeach]

So a couple of evenings ago I came across a video on youtube (just surfing) and decided to watch it. Some church I never heard of, but the video claimed you were going to learn what the actual mark of the beast is.

After 15 minutes or so, the revealing indicated that the mark of the beast is going to church on Sunday.

I kid you not. So, apparently, off to hell with you if you attend Sunday church. Not SDA but then a good number of cults have sprung up from the original false prophecies of Ellen. These are defined as cults.

 

[Magenta]

Of course not God does

That is not what you quoted from the Bible.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

That is not what you quoted from the Bible.

If I quoted the Bible, and you disagree, the disagreement is with the Text.

 

[Magenta]

If I quoted the Bible, and you disagree, the disagreement is with the Text.

Do you not recall our exchanges? YOU quoted a Scripture verse you then contradicted. I agree with Scripture.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Most people miss what its really about, the mark of the beast is over worship- are we worshipping our Creator, or the government who changed God's times and laws. False worship according to Jesus in His own words is laying aside the commandment of God for traditions of men. He said it makes our worship to Him in vain (false)

Mark7: 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

It comes down to which authority one is going to listen to. Whoever we obey is who we serve (worship) Rom6:16KJV


Rev 14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” quoting Exo20:11
8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

The only safeguard to worship the beast system is found in the next verse which matches exactly what Jesus said- in vain they worship Me, keeping the commandments of men over the commandments of God. Those who worship our Creator Rev14:7 obey the commandments of God including the Sabbath and serve Him Isa56:6 not the beast who changed God's times and laws that most people follow which is a tradition over obeying the commandments of God.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The mark of the beast has not happened yet because we are free to worship God on the Sabbath like the commandment of God or Sunday like the tradition of man. But when the law goes in effect where Sunday worship is required and Sabbath worship is against the law that's when the mark of ten beast will take in effect. I know this seems far-fetched but they are already working on Sunday laws to pass and you don't pass laws without consequences otherwise there is no teeth to them.

So its not just "Sunday worship" that is the issue, is choosing to obey another voice other than God. Whoever we obey is who we serve or worship. Rom6:16KJV

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters. (Over God's Exo20:8-11)
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

Or we can obey God

Eze20: 20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Do you not recall our exchanges? YOU quoted a Scripture verse you then contradicted. I agree with Scripture.

Just quote what you're referring to.

 

[Magenta]

Just quote what you're referring to.

So you don't remember? The topic was heart circumcision, since you claimed our hearts have not
changed, I said mine has been circumcised, asked if yours had not? You really do not recall?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So you don't remember? The topic was heart circumcision, since you claimed our hearts have not
changed, I said mine has been circumcised, asked if yours had not? You really do not recall?

I remember the conversation I am asking you to quote the accusation you are trying to make.

 

[Magenta]

I remember the conversation I am asking you to quote the accusation you are trying to make.

What accusation would that be?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

What accusation would that be?

I am not interested in games, if you want to prove whatever it is you are trying to, show it by evidence, otherwise I am going to move on.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

that is a vague question, want do you really need answered? we all know who Jesus is and what he accomplished. ill answer anyways;

The Son is Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, who said of Himself:

I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

And:

He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. (John 14:9)

As for what His death accomplished, Jesus answered that Himself better than anyone else ever could:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

His death was the greatest act of love in all of history. Full forgiveness. Full redemption. Complete restoration of our relationship with the Father. Nobody here has ever disputed that and nobody ever will.

in your question, the implication seems to be that because of what His death accomplished the commandments He gave us no longer matter. But Jesus Himself closed that door on the very night He went to the cross when He said:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

His death did not contradict His commandments. It made it possible through the Holy Spirit for us to finally keep them from genuine love rather than fear. That was always the point. His sacrifice and His commandments were never in opposition. They were always part of the same perfect plan.

When I asked who you think Jesus was and what He did you called it a "vague question" but it is an essential one. The Apostle Peter said: 15But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a DEFENSE to everyone who asks you the REASON for the HOPE that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who slander you may be put to shame by your good behavior in Christ.…(1 Peter 3:15-16)
We should not ever get tired or impatient with people who ask us to explain. As for me, I try not to assume anything about another person's belief.

You said some good things in this post such as His "sacrifice and His commandments are never in opposition" but this is a canard. If the prior covenant of the Law (of Moses) has been abrogated then some commands are necessarily abridged. Let us consider first the rite of circumcision which God revealed to Abraham. If we accept that no command of God can ever be withhdrawn, abridged or abolished, what about circumcision? Covenants form the basis and context for what we do not disembodied statutes.

The Apostles dealt with many who still believed it was necessary to circumcise every new convert to Christianity. The Apostles and leaders of that time after some deliberation decided that circumcision would be discontinued for Gentile believers. In the same way, some things which commanded by Moses under that covenant are no longer required under ours. After all, God Himself through the prophet Jeremiah had:
…31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32It will NOT BE LIKE THE COVENANT I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt— a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

In making a New Covenant God made the old one OBSOLETE. The prior covenant included: the system of sacrifices, the priesthood, the temple system of worship, the dietary laws, the requirement to keep the festivals even the older practice of circumcision. If all of those practices are no longer required then what makes us think the Lord cannot change the DAY when we gather to celebrate Christ's death and resurrection. His death is what bought our redemption from sin, Sata and will ultimately result in a new heavens and earth?

Christians began celebrating the Day of Resurrection from the beginning on the First Day because that was the day when Christ first appeared to them alive. This happened on the day the Romans called Sunday (or the "Day of the Sun") but Christians quickly changed the name to "The Lord's Day" John the Revelator was already calling it that when he wrote the Revelation. Now who was the one who brought about more profound deliverance - Moses or Jesus? You decide.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

When I asked who you think Jesus was and what He did you called it a "vague question" but it is an essential one. The Apostle Peter said: 15But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a DEFENSE to everyone who asks you the REASON for the HOPE that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who slander you may be put to shame by your good behavior in Christ.…(1 Peter 3:15-16)
We should not ever get tired or impatient with people who ask us to explain. As for me, I try not to assume anything about another person's belief.

You said some good things in this post such as His "sacrifice and His commandments are never in opposition" but this is a canard. If the prior covenant of the Law (of Moses) has been abrogated then some commands are necessarily abridged. Let us consider first the rite of circumcision which God revealed to Abraham. If we accept that no command of God can ever be withhdrawn, abridged or abolished, what about circumcision? Covenants form the basis and context for what we do not disembodied statutes.

The Apostles dealt with many who still believed it was necessary to circumcise every new convert to Christianity. The Apostles and leaders of that time after some deliberation decided that circumcision would be discontinued for Gentile believers. In the same way, some things which commanded by Moses under that covenant are no longer required under ours. After all, God Himself through the prophet Jeremiah had:
…31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32It will NOT BE LIKE THE COVENANT I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt— a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

In making a New Covenant God made the old one OBSOLETE. The prior covenant included: the system of sacrifices, the priesthood, the temple system of worship, the dietary laws, the requirement to keep the festivals even the older practice of circumcision. If all of those practices are no longer required then what makes us think the Lord cannot change the DAY when we gather to celebrate Christ's death and resurrection. His death is what bought our redemption from sin, Sata and will ultimately result in a new heavens and earth?

Christians began celebrating the Day of Resurrection from the beginning on the First Day because that was the day when Christ first appeared to them alive. This happened on the day the Romans called Sunday (or the "Day of the Sun") but Christians quickly changed the name to "The Lord's Day" John the Revelator was already calling it that when he wrote the Revelation. Now who was the one who brought about more profound deliverance - Moses or Jesus? You decide.

If God said He would not change the words of the covenant Psa89:34, not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 but came to magnify His laws- which means make them greater, established on better promises Heb8:6 it means the new covenant is not like the old covenant- notice how it doesn't say different laws, man adds that to God's words when He didn't. Its not like the same covenant because its magnified and established on better promises- its taking the law of God (not Moses) Exo20:6 going from tablets of stone Deut4:13 (external) to tablets of the heart Heb8:10 2Cor3:3 (internal) established of the better promise of what God will do, with our cooperation of the Holy Spirit. John14:15-18 God keeping His promise not to change a jot or tittle of the law, heaven and earth would have to pass first and its still here. Mat5:18-30 The issue was never the law of God, its perfect Psa19:7 and holy Rom7:12 because it was written by God Himself. God never made a mistake, mans harden heart has always been the issue Heb3:7-19 why its still a sin to break the least of these commandments in the NC 1John3:4 James2:10-12 Mat5:19-30 because it shows our heart has not yet been converted if we refuse to subject ourselves to the law of God. Rom8:7-8 we want to be in this group Rev14:12 not this one Mat7:23 1John2:4

 

[Rob7]

I agree 100% we all need to do a better job of this and calling people a false prophet no matter which side we are on is not the way to do this. Thanks brother for sharing. As a FYI- I am a siter.

According to the writings of Ellen G. White and the Adventist pioneers, yes — when it is done in a Christ-like character of deep humility, sorrowful love, and tender concern for the soul’s salvation — it is both loving and appropriate to explain to professed Christians (especially teachers or leaders) how their teachings constitute a “religion of disobedience” and manifest the spirit of antichrist.

This is not a harsh, personal accusation or debate that stirs combativeness (as warned against in the previous counsel from Evangelism). Instead, it follows the exact example of Jesus Himself, which Ellen White holds up as the pattern for reproving error today.

In The Desire of Ages (chapter “Woes on the Pharisees”), she describes Christ’s direct, public call-out of the religious leaders:

“Never before had such a scene been witnessed… [Jesus] spoke with the dignity of heaven’s authority… The denunciations were not personal, but were for the salvation of those who heard… Divine pity marked His countenance… In anguish His voice was choked by deep heart grief, and bitter tears fell from His eyes as He lamented over Jerusalem.”
Jesus explicitly called them “hypocrites,” “serpents,” “whited sepulchres,” and pronounced woes upon their false religion — yet Ellen White emphasizes it was done with tears, in love, and for their possible salvation, not in anger or self-righteousness. The purpose was to expose the system of tradition and lawlessness that kept souls in darkness, so that “the treasures of truth” could take root in honest hearts. She applies this directly to our day:

“The same rebuke falls upon modern hypocrites who make high profession… If Christ were upon the earth today, He would repeat His warnings… Christians should feel righteous indignation against sin, but without passion… preserving love and mercy in reproving error [and] false teachers.”
Ellen White and the pioneers repeatedly taught that the “religion of disobedience” (rejecting God’s law, especially the Sabbath, while claiming Christ) and the “spirit of antichrist” are Bible facts that must be explained. She links the spirit of antichrist to any teaching that denies Christ’s authority in the flesh — including the spirit that sets aside His commandments (see 1 John 4:3 KJV: “And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist…” and 2 John 1:7). In The Signs of the Times she writes that those who teach lawlessness while professing Christianity are “controlled by the spirit of antichrist.”

The pioneers (Uriah Smith, J.N. Andrews, James White) did exactly this in their public lectures and Review and Herald articles: they boldly named the system of apostate Protestantism as the false prophet and part of the antichrist power, explaining the “religion of disobedience” from Scripture — but always with the goal of winning souls, not destroying them.

However, the manner is everything if it is to remain Christ-like and humble. Ellen White is clear in Christ’s Object Lessons:

“Under all circumstances reproof should be spoken in love… The love of God must be living in the heart of the teacher of the truth.”
In Gospel Workers she adds that reproof must come “in humility and love,” never eclipsing “Christ’s love and mercy” by our own spirit. If the explanation turns into a debate, contention, or personal attack (“You are an agent of the antichrist!” in a railing tone), it ceases to be loving or humble and becomes Satan’s device to harden hearts — exactly as warned in the previous counsel.

The Christ-like way, therefore, is:

• Go (or speak) in the spirit of tears and prayer, as Jesus did.
• Exalt Jesus and His righteousness first.
• Calmly open the Scriptures: “Here is what God says about a religion that claims to serve Christ while teaching disobedience to His commandments (Matthew 7:21-23; 1 John 2:4; Revelation 14:12). This is the spirit that the Bible calls antichrist…”
• Show the contrast between the false and the true, without personal railing.
• Then step back and let the Holy Spirit convict and compel to righteousness — exactly as the Great Commission and the earlier counsel require.

This approach is loving because it seeks to save; humble because it hides self and points only to Christ and the Word; and appropriate because it follows the pattern of the Master and the pioneers. Ellen White sums it up: “Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2 KJV) — but only while clothed with the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. When done this way, such an explanation can be a lifeline to souls trapped in the false prophet’s deceptions.

Sister, ! You are right in the respect of my attitude is not altogether Christlike in my "Reproving, rebuking and exhorting" of which I confessed above as not being " done in a Christ-like character of deep humility, sorrowful love, and tender concern for the soul’s salvation — it is both loving and appropriate to explain to professed Christians (especially teachers or leaders)" who are functioning as False Prophets. I am doing this out of Love for Deno246, Mem, Psalm1, Inquisitor, Et Al ( as examples of False Prophets ) as fellow human beings, my neighbors of Matt 22:37. If I were being a false prophet, and / or having a spirit of Anti-Christ, I SURE WOULD WANT someone, anyone to point this out, to reproving me, for my souls sake ... Don't Ya Think ?

I need to pray for "greater repentance" and for less "self righteousness" and more "Christ Righteousness" This is the sanctification process, where we become less of ourselves (selfishness) and more Christ and His Righteousness dwelling IN US. Gal 2:20 The Holy Spirit is working mightily with me, I pray !!

Yet, My message of a warning to these people ( by calling them out as FPs ) and of having the spirit of Anti-Christ and false prophets, is still the same.

Revelation 18:4
"Then I heard another voice from heaven say: 'Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues.'"
Revelation 14:9-11
" ... If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.

Thank you Sister for pointing out my unrighteousness, Twas needed and appropriate.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ~~ Blessings ~~ +++++++++++++++++++++++++​

 

[vassal]

When I asked who you think Jesus was and what He did you called it a "vague question" but it is an essential one. The Apostle Peter said: 15But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a DEFENSE to everyone who asks you the REASON for the HOPE that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who slander you may be put to shame by your good behavior in Christ.…(1 Peter 3:15-16)
We should not ever get tired or impatient with people who ask us to explain. As for me, I try not to assume anything about another person's belief.

You said some good things in this post such as His "sacrifice and His commandments are never in opposition" but this is a canard. If the prior covenant of the Law (of Moses) has been abrogated then some commands are necessarily abridged. Let us consider first the rite of circumcision which God revealed to Abraham. If we accept that no command of God can ever be withhdrawn, abridged or abolished, what about circumcision? Covenants form the basis and context for what we do not disembodied statutes.

The Apostles dealt with many who still believed it was necessary to circumcise every new convert to Christianity. The Apostles and leaders of that time after some deliberation decided that circumcision would be discontinued for Gentile believers. In the same way, some things which commanded by Moses under that covenant are no longer required under ours. After all, God Himself through the prophet Jeremiah had:
…31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32It will NOT BE LIKE THE COVENANT I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt— a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

In making a New Covenant God made the old one OBSOLETE. The prior covenant included: the system of sacrifices, the priesthood, the temple system of worship, the dietary laws, the requirement to keep the festivals even the older practice of circumcision. If all of those practices are no longer required then what makes us think the Lord cannot change the DAY when we gather to celebrate Christ's death and resurrection. His death is what bought our redemption from sin, Sata and will ultimately result in a new heavens and earth?

Christians began celebrating the Day of Resurrection from the beginning on the First Day because that was the day when Christ first appeared to them alive. This happened on the day the Romans called Sunday (or the "Day of the Sun") but Christians quickly changed the name to "The Lord's Day" John the Revelator was already calling it that when he wrote the Revelation. Now who was the one who brought about more profound deliverance - Moses or Jesus? You decide.

Thank you for the detailed response and for citing 1 Peter 3:15. That verse is a good reminder for all of us and I take it seriously.

You make a strong case that the Old Covenant has been superseded by the New, and I agree with much of it. Circumcision, the Levitical priesthood, the temple sacrifices laws were all shadows pointing forward to Christ. Hebrews makes this abundantly clear, and Jeremiah 31:31-32 is a stunning prophecy of what God intended all along.

But here is the distinction I think you are passing over too quickly. Not all Old Testament laws belong to the same category. Theologians have long and carefully maintained a difference between the ceremonial and civil laws of Moses on one hand, and the moral law summarized in the Ten Commandments on the other.

Circumcision, the annual festivals, the sacrificial laws were all typological, meaning they pointed forward to Christ. Once the reality arrives the shadow naturally dissolves. That is precisely the argument of Colossians 2:16-17 and the whole book of Hebrews.

The Sabbath is not in that category though. This is the critical point. The Sabbath predates the Mosaic Covenant entirely. God rested on the seventh day at Creation (Genesis 2:2-3) and sanctified it long before Abraham, before circumcision, before Moses, before Israel existed as a nation. It was not a national ceremonial sign given to Israel. It was woven into the fabric of creation itself and then restated in the moral law that is the ten Commandments at Sinai (Exodus 20:8-11).

When Paul says in Colossians 2:16 not to let anyone judge you regarding a sabbath, he uses the plural form alongside new moons and annual festivals, which refers to the ceremonial sabbaths of the Mosaic calendar (Leviticus 23), not the weekly creation Sabbath.

As for Sunday worship and the Lord's Day, I agree that Christians from very early times gathered on the first day to celebrate the Resurrection and I do not dismiss that at all. But the honest question I would ask is this: where in the New Testament does Jesus or any apostle explicitly transfer the fourth commandment from the seventh day to the first, or declare the weekly Sabbath abolished? Early church gatherings on Sunday are documented, but documentation of a practice is not the same as apostolic authority to change a commandment. That shift came through the institutional Church in later centuries, which is a very different source of authority.

You ask who brought about more profound deliverance, Moses or Jesus? Jesus, without question, and I believe that wholeheartedly. But that is exactly why it would matter if Jesus or His apostles had changed the day. They would certainly have said so plainly. And yet we have no such record in Scripture (John 14:15).

I am not saying Sunday worship is sinful or that those who practice it are in error. I am simply saying that the New Covenant argument, as powerful as it is in other areas, does not carry the weight you are placing on it here, because the Sabbath does not belong to the same class of laws that passed away with the Mosaic system. It is why the Ten Commandments were placed In the Ark of the Covenant and the Laws of Moses were placed to the side of the Ark and Not inside.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Sister, ! You are right in the respect of my attitude is not altogether Christlike in my "Reproving, rebuking and exhorting" of which I confessed above as not being " done in a Christ-like character of deep humility, sorrowful love, and tender concern for the soul’s salvation — it is both loving and appropriate to explain to professed Christians (especially teachers or leaders)" who are functioning as False Prophets. I am doing this out of Love for Deno246, Mem, Psalm1, Inquisitor, Et Al ( as examples of False Prophets ) as fellow human beings, my neighbors of Matt 22:37. If I were being a false prophet, and / or having a spirit of Anti-Christ, I SURE WOULD WANT someone, anyone to point this out, to reproving me, for my souls sake ... Don't Ya Think ?

I need to pray for "greater repentance" and for less "self righteousness" and more "Christ Righteousness" This is the sanctification process, where we become less of ourselves (selfishness) and more Christ and His Righteousness dwelling IN US. Gal 2:20 The Holy Spirit is working mightily with me, I pray !!

Yet, My message of a warning to these people ( by calling them out as FPs ) and of having the spirit of Anti-Christ and false prophets, is still the same.

Thank you Sister for pointing out my unrighteousness, Twas needed and appropriate.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ~~ Blessings ~~ +++++++++++++++++++++++++​

We all do, we are all very passionate about our beliefs and what you hit on is what I have been praying for. We need to stay strong in our beliefs in what God said, the way Jesus would want us to. The apotles did everything with a loving heart, but the word of God is a double edge sword- its best to let the Scriptures do the cutting not us. God bless!

 

[Inquisitor]

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

That is the fruit of the Holy Spirit working in you as you can't bear that fruit yourself.

The Holy Spirit is given to you as a pledge, a seal, it is a gift.

Not you producing the fruit of the Holy Spirit through your obedience.

Your powerless without the Holy Spirit in you.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1 Corinthians 2:5
So that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.