The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[SabbathBlessing]

Only if one chooses not to believe God at His word

Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jesus ratified His covenant by His death Mat26:28 not that He is the covenant.

 

[Qt]

Replacing Jesus actual covenant with commandments is heresy. No need for any more discussion about it today. You are your own worst enemy and don't even see it.

You do realize you are not really saying anything objective. Your statement here is just comment without anything substantiating it. BTW Christ’s covenant is placing his law, his word in our hearts through His spirit. He invites you too.

 

[Rob7]

My post from my op on the White SDA doctrine. As I state you can still buy the book written by Kellogg who was obviously a sadist so no problem backing up what it is said he did. He did it and he wrote about it and White, not quite in her right mind, backed him up all the way. White also suffered from brain damage which is always covered up.

I hope and pray people are not actually believing you ..
I've read quite a bit of Sister White, medical advice, (eg. Ministry of Healing ), very little of Dr. Kellogg and have never heard of any such "treatment"
You will have to support your slander with a verifiable quote, from EGW .. as I do, when pointing out the disobedience to God, here in these forums. SHOW ME !!

I gave this unfounded accusation to AI, which does fairly well at research thru mountains of literature and this is what it returns;

"Based on the provided search context, there is no record of Ellen White or Dr. J. H. Kellogg writing that Ellen White condoned pouring acid on children's genitals.

The search results indicate the following regarding this topic:

• Medical Context of the Era: A Spectrum Magazine article notes that in the 19th century, the medical community offered various extreme treatments for masturbation (referred to as "solitary vice"), including "acid burns, cauterization, ... snipping the dorsal nerve of the penis," and "brass poisoning."
• 
  
• Ellen White's Specific Stance: The context explicitly contrasts these severe medical practices with Ellen White's approach, stating, "On the other hand, I am startled by how much less severe her remedies were." Her recommended methods included "educating youngsters about the dangers," suggesting children "not sleep together," avoiding "spicy food," and keeping children "busy with important projects."
• 
  
• Direct Quote on Treatment: Ellen White is quoted in the search results advising against harsh treatment: "Be not hasty and agitated, and [do not treat] your children with censure. Such a course would only cause rebellion in them."
• Kellogg's Relationship to the Topic: While Dr. Kellogg was a "vigorous foe of masturbation" and a proponent of health reforms, the provided text does not attribute any endorsement of acid burns by him or Ellen White to the specific act of torturing children. The text mentions that Kellogg discovered Ellen White had copied health advice from L.B. Coles, but does not link them to acid treatments.

The claim that Ellen White wrote it was "ok" for Dr. Kellogg to pour acid on children is not supported by the provided search results, which instead highlight her preference for educational and non-invasive remedies over the surgical and chemical interventions common in her time.

So Pinebeach ! Give us a reference quote to verify your allegations, or relegate yourself to the realms of malicious liars.
AND ! Why are you ignoring the large body of so-called Christian doctors, who support and actively perform transgender operations by genital mutilation of children. Are you hypocritical as well ?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

 

[ATG]

i dismissed nothing just that many know only the epistles of Paul and completely ignore the rest of scripture this is what I nave been saying for years, People forgot Jesus ! jesus had other apostles than paul, they are also ignored.

You dismiss Col 2 Scripture as being less important than Scripture in the gospels. Or, you accuse Col 2 Scripture of contradicting gospel Scripture.

Either way, all Judaizing sabbath-commanders today preach OT law of Moses over NT doctrine of Christ, rather than conforming the old to the new.

The NT apostolic doctrine of Christ is that holydays and sabbaths can no longer be transgressed nor profaned, because they are no longer commanded by law of Christ for His NT churches to faithfully keep.

All of the old law were good to obey, and are still good to adopt, but no longer commanded as law to keep, on pains of trasngression.

Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Whether it's foods, drinks, or days; all Christians are free by personal liberty to eat, drink, and keep as we desire. But none of those things that were commanded in the old law of Moses, are commanded in the new law of Christ.

Those who command any of these old things for all new Christians to obey, are making themselves false lawgivers and judges, instead of the only true Head of the body, Jesus Christ.

Jas 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Col 2:20
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

What's only worse, is the open insult, that none of the congregations of those lawgiving sabbath commanders, even keep their sabbaths themselves.

I mean, if you're going to command a special law to make yourselves special, you ought at least keep it special, rather than breaking it by allowance with corban dues....All pseudo-sabbath congregations are manifest frauds, that can't even keep it special when commanding something special.

What? You want all churches of God to be like you? To preach a lying commandment, with built-in exceptions and allowances and donated sabbath paydays? Forget it pal.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I hope and pray people are not actually believing you ..
I've read quite a bit of Sister White, medical advice, (eg. Ministry of Healing ), very little of Dr. Kellogg and have never heard of any such "treatment"
You will have to support your slander with a verifiable quote, from EGW .. as I do, when pointing out the disobedience to God, here in these forums. SHOW ME !!

I gave this unfounded accusation to AI, which does fairly well at research thru mountains of literature and this is what it returns;

"Based on the provided search context, there is no record of Ellen White or Dr. J. H. Kellogg writing that Ellen White condoned pouring acid on children's genitals.

The search results indicate the following regarding this topic:

• Medical Context of the Era: A Spectrum Magazine article notes that in the 19th century, the medical community offered various extreme treatments for masturbation (referred to as "solitary vice"), including "acid burns, cauterization, ... snipping the dorsal nerve of the penis," and "brass poisoning."
• 
  
• Ellen White's Specific Stance: The context explicitly contrasts these severe medical practices with Ellen White's approach, stating, "On the other hand, I am startled by how much less severe her remedies were." Her recommended methods included "educating youngsters about the dangers," suggesting children "not sleep together," avoiding "spicy food," and keeping children "busy with important projects."
• 
  
• Direct Quote on Treatment: Ellen White is quoted in the search results advising against harsh treatment: "Be not hasty and agitated, and [do not treat] your children with censure. Such a course would only cause rebellion in them."
• Kellogg's Relationship to the Topic: While Dr. Kellogg was a "vigorous foe of masturbation" and a proponent of health reforms, the provided text does not attribute any endorsement of acid burns by him or Ellen White to the specific act of torturing children. The text mentions that Kellogg discovered Ellen White had copied health advice from L.B. Coles, but does not link them to acid treatments.

The claim that Ellen White wrote it was "ok" for Dr. Kellogg to pour acid on children is not supported by the provided search results, which instead highlight her preference for educational and non-invasive remedies over the surgical and chemical interventions common in her time.

So Pinebeach ! Give us a reference quote to verify your allegations, or relegate yourself to the realms of malicious liars.
AND ! Why are you ignoring the large body of so-called Christian doctors, who support and actively perform transgender operations by genital mutilation of children. Are you hypocritical as well ?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

Here’s you a quick overview. You’ve already refused to condemn your FAKE prophet’s demonic support of her prescious monster so you reading it again, I doubt will make any difference.

—————————————
Dr. Kellogg’s most famous manual, "Plain Facts for Old and Young," which contained his detailed instructions for the surgical torture of children, was first published in 1877. He didn't just write it and move on; he updated and reprinted it multiple times throughout the 1880s and 1890s—the very decades when Ellen White was sending her strongest endorsements.
Amazon.com +2

DATE: 1877
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Published
Plain Facts for Old and Young
, advocating for carbolic acid on the clitoris of girls and circumcision on boys without anesthesia as a "salutary" punishment for "secret vice" (Source: Google Books - Plain Facts).
Ellen White’s Claims: No warning given; she remains his closest ally and supporter of the Battle Creek Sanitarium.

DATE: 1888
Kellogg’s Public Actions: New and expanded editions of
Plain Facts
(detailing the child surgeries) are in wide circulation and heavily promoted in Adventist circles.
Ellen White’s Claims: "I believe he has confidence in me... He has treated me with all the courtesy that he would show toward his mother." (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - Letter 21, 1888)

DATE: 1892
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Performing up to 20 surgeries a day and documenting these "cures" for behavioral issues in children.
Ellen White’s Claims: "God is very near you in your work, angels are close in attendance." (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - Letter 7, 1892)

DATE: 1897
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Serving as Superintendent of the Battle Creek Sanitarium and a world-renowned medical authority for the SDA.
Ellen White’s Claims: She tells Kellogg his work was "appointed" by God and suggests he is doing the work the Lord wants done. (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - Manuscript 43, 1897)

DATE: 1901
Kellogg’s Public Actions: Leading the eugenics movement and promoting sterilization theories for the "unfit."
Ellen White’s Claims: At the General Conference, she declares: "The Lord said, ‘He is My physician.’" (Source: Ellen G. White Estate - General Conference Bulletin, April 14, 1901)

If she was a prophet, why was she completely blind to his documented cruelty for 24 years? She only turned on him in 1903 because of his "theology," not because of what he did to children. Does God appoint people to use acid on kids, or was she just a false prophet who couldn't spot a monster right in front of her?
The "Prophetic" Failure

• No Warning: Throughout these years, her letters to him were mostly about church politics, money, and power—not his cruel medical practices.
• The Pantheism Shift: She only truly turned against him in 1903, and it wasn't because of how he treated children; it was because he published a book called The Living Templethat contained "pantheistic" views about God.
• Documented Evil: The methods he used—like circumcision without anesthesia to "punish" the mind and acid on girls to cause painful blistering—were not secrets; they were in his books that anyone could buy.
  Amazon.com +4

"The timeline is clear. Kellogg didn't hide his 'cures'; he put them in best-selling books. While he was telling parents to use acid and surgery as 'punishment' for children, Ellen White was telling the world that he was 'God-appointed' and had 'angels' standing next to him. "If you're waiting for her to finally say 'Stop using acid on kids,' you're going to be waiting a long time. Even after she called him a 'wolf' in 1903, it was only because he questioned her theology, not his surgery. If she was a prophet, why did her 'light' only show her his bad theology while remaining completely dark on his documented evil?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I hope and pray people are not actually believing you ..
I've read quite a bit of Sister White, medical advice, (eg. Ministry of Healing ), very little of Dr. Kellogg and have never heard of any such "treatment"
You will have to support your slander with a verifiable quote, from EGW .. as I do, when pointing out the disobedience to God, here in these forums. SHOW ME !!

I gave this unfounded accusation to AI, which does fairly well at research thru mountains of literature and this is what it returns;

"Based on the provided search context, there is no record of Ellen White or Dr. J. H. Kellogg writing that Ellen White condoned pouring acid on children's genitals.

The search results indicate the following regarding this topic:

• Medical Context of the Era: A Spectrum Magazine article notes that in the 19th century, the medical community offered various extreme treatments for masturbation (referred to as "solitary vice"), including "acid burns, cauterization, ... snipping the dorsal nerve of the penis," and "brass poisoning."
• 
  
• Ellen White's Specific Stance: The context explicitly contrasts these severe medical practices with Ellen White's approach, stating, "On the other hand, I am startled by how much less severe her remedies were." Her recommended methods included "educating youngsters about the dangers," suggesting children "not sleep together," avoiding "spicy food," and keeping children "busy with important projects."
• 
  
• Direct Quote on Treatment: Ellen White is quoted in the search results advising against harsh treatment: "Be not hasty and agitated, and [do not treat] your children with censure. Such a course would only cause rebellion in them."
• Kellogg's Relationship to the Topic: While Dr. Kellogg was a "vigorous foe of masturbation" and a proponent of health reforms, the provided text does not attribute any endorsement of acid burns by him or Ellen White to the specific act of torturing children. The text mentions that Kellogg discovered Ellen White had copied health advice from L.B. Coles, but does not link them to acid treatments.

The claim that Ellen White wrote it was "ok" for Dr. Kellogg to pour acid on children is not supported by the provided search results, which instead highlight her preference for educational and non-invasive remedies over the surgical and chemical interventions common in her time.

So Pinebeach ! Give us a reference quote to verify your allegations, or relegate yourself to the realms of malicious liars.
AND ! Why are you ignoring the large body of so-called Christian doctors, who support and actively perform transgender operations by genital mutilation of children. Are you hypocritical as well ?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

And here’s the other post:

—————————
Shall we move on to Ellen’s full support of the sadistic medical practices oF dr Kellogg who she claimed God appointed? I’m sure when many hear Kellogg they think of cereal. I used to think of the same thing until I found out that he was a sadistic maniac. He was eventually excommunicated from the church but not for his sadistic medical experiments. It was because of his pantheistic views.

1. Kellogg as a "God-Appointed" Physician
"Dr. Kellogg is a God-appointed physician. He has been doing a work that is in accordance with the light God has given me. The Lord has made him a leader in our medical work, and those who oppose him are opposing the work of God. I have seen that he has been given special wisdom and power to do a work that no other man among us can do. He is the right arm of the gospel, and he must be sustained and supported by our people."
— Ellen G. White, Battle Creek Letters, p. 54 (1898)

2. Command to Obey Kellogg’s Medical Authority
"I was shown that the medical missionary work is the right arm of the message, and that Dr. Kellogg is the man God has chosen to lead in this work. The students and those in the sanitarium are to obey his instructions and follow his advice in the medical field. God has given him light that He has not given to others, and he is to be respected as the head of our medical work. To refuse to follow his lead is to refuse the light that God has sent through him."
— Ellen G. White, Manuscript Releases, Vol. 18, p. 212

3. Defending His Work as the "Right Arm"
"The medical missionary work, of which Dr. Kellogg is the head, is the right arm of the gospel. It is the means by which the truth is to find an entrance into the hearts of those who would not otherwise be reached. The Lord has blessed Dr. Kellogg in his work, and He has given him success that has made the Battle Creek Sanitarium a light to the world. We are to cooperate with him in every way possible, and we are to see that his hands are not weakened by those who do not understand the importance of this work."
— Ellen G. White, Review and Herald, August 15, 1899

I’m not posting the specific verbatim text of Dr. Kellogg’s medical "cures" because they are too graphic and disturbing for a public forum, but they are 100% verified historical facts. You can find them yourself by searching for the 1888 edition of "Plain Facts for Old and Young"(pages 295-296) and his "Ladies' Guide in Health and Disease."These weren't secret experiments; they were published in his own manuals and sold by the thousands to the public while Ellen White was busy writing testimonies calling him a "God-appointed physician" and telling students to "obey his instructions." She didn't just stay silent; she put a prophetic stamp of approval on a man who was publicly documenting the use of acid and unanesthetized surgery on children as the "right arm of the gospel."

 

[vassal]

You dismiss Col 2 Scripture as being less important than Scripture in the gospels. Or, you accuse Col 2 Scripture of contradicting gospel Scripture.

Either way, all Judaizing sabbath-commanders today preach OT law of Moses over NT doctrine of Christ, rather than conforming the old to the new.

The NT apostolic doctrine of Christ is that holydays and sabbaths can no longer be transgressed nor profaned, because they are no longer commanded by law of Christ for His NT churches to faithfully keep.

All of the old law were good to obey, and are still good to adopt, but no longer commanded as law to keep, on pains of trasngression.

Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Whether it's foods, drinks, or days; all Christians are free by personal liberty to eat, drink, and keep as we desire. But none of those things that were commanded in the old law of Moses, are commanded in the new law of Christ.

Those who command any of these old things for all new Christians to obey, are making themselves false lawgivers and judges, instead of the only true Head of the body, Jesus Christ.

Jas 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Col 2:20
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

What's only worse, is the open insult, that none of the congregations of those lawgiving sabbath commanders, even keep their sabbaths themselves.

I mean, if you're going to command a special law to make yourselves special, you ought at least keep it special, rather than breaking it by allowance with corban dues....All pseudo-sabbath congregations are manifest frauds, that can't even keep it special when commanding something special.

What? You want all churches of God to be like you? To preach a lying commandment, with built-in exceptions and allowances and donated sabbath paydays? Forget it pal.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I did not dismiss anything, I wrote and explained col 2:16 and more see post #5137 of this thread.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

1. The quotes you posted (key issue: authenticity)​

The three quotations you shared raise red flags:

Problems with them​

• The wording is unusually absolute and promotional (“right arm of the gospel… must be sustained… opposing him is opposing God”) in a way that does not match Ellen White’s normal style, especially regarding any single individual.
• Some cited sources are vague or misused:
  • “Battle Creek Letters, p. 54 (1898)” → not a standard, citable EGW publication.
  • “Manuscript Releases, Vol. 18, p. 212” → this is a real compilation, but quotes must be checked in context (many online quotes are altered or stitched together).
• These exact paragraphs do not appear in the EGW writings database in this form (a major red flag for misquotation or fabrication).

Bottom line:
These quotes are very likely altered, paraphrased, or entirely fabricated, even though they are built around real themes she did express.

---

2. What EGW actually did say about Kellogg​

There is documented evidence that she:

• Strongly supported Kellogg in his medical work (especially pre-1900)
• Called medical missionary work the “right arm of the gospel” (this part is real)
• Described Kellogg as having a God-given role as a physician

But—this is crucial—her support was:

➤ Role-specific, not blanket endorsement​

She supported:

• His work in health reform
• The sanitarium mission
• Medical evangelism

She did not give him unlimited authority or say everything he did was from God.

---

3. Did she tell people to “obey Kellogg”?​

There is no solid evidence she gave a sweeping command like:

“To refuse to follow his lead is to refuse the light of God”

That kind of absolute obedience language is inconsistent with her repeated emphasis that:

• God alone is authority
• No human leader should be followed blindly

In fact, later she warned strongly against centralizing authority in Kellogg.

---

4. What about Kellogg’s treatments of children?​

Here’s the uncomfortable truth:

✔ Yes — Kellogg published harmful recommendations​

In Plain Facts for Old and Young (1888), he recommended:

• Painful procedures (including circumcision without anesthesia)
• Chemical applications to genital areas

By modern standards, these are:
clearly abusive and medically unethical

---

5. Did EGW know about or endorse those practices?​

This is the key question.

There is no evidence that:​

• She specifically endorsed those treatments
• She referenced or approved those methods

What we do know:​

• Her endorsements were general (his role, the institution, health reform)
• Not detailed approvals of every medical procedure he taught

---

6. Her later stance on Kellogg (very important)​

By the early 1900s, especially during the pantheism crisis, she:

• Publicly rebuked him
• Said he was not safe to lead
• Warned others not to trust his influence

This shows clearly:
Her earlier support was not unconditional or permanent

---

7. So what’s really going on with these allegations?​

The claims you posted combine:

✔ True elements:​

• Kellogg promoted harmful treatments
• EGW strongly supported his medical work at one time
• She used language about “God appointing” roles

Distorted elements:​

• Quotes exaggerated into absolute, unquestioning endorsement
• Claims she required obedience to Kellogg as divine authority
• Implication she approved specific abusive practices

---

Final, evidence-based conclusion​

• Did EGW call Kellogg God-appointed?
  ✔ Yes — in a limited vocational sense (physician/medical work)
• Did Kellogg promote harmful treatments?
  ✔ Yes — clearly by modern standards
• Did EGW endorse those harmful treatments?
  No evidence
• Did she command blind obedience to Kellogg?
  No reliable evidence — and it contradicts her broader teachings

 

[Just_A__Follower]

1. The quotes you posted (key issue: authenticity)​

The three quotations you shared raise red flags:

Problems with them​

• The wording is unusually absolute and promotional (“right arm of the gospel… must be sustained… opposing him is opposing God”) in a way that does not match Ellen White’s normal style, especially regarding any single individual.
• Some cited sources are vague or misused:
  • “Battle Creek Letters, p. 54 (1898)” → not a standard, citable EGW publication.
  • “Manuscript Releases, Vol. 18, p. 212” → this is a real compilation, but quotes must be checked in context (many online quotes are altered or stitched together).
• These exact paragraphs do not appear in the EGW writings database in this form (a major red flag for misquotation or fabrication).

Bottom line:
These quotes are very likely altered, paraphrased, or entirely fabricated, even though they are built around real themes she did express.

---

2. What EGW actually did say about Kellogg​

There is documented evidence that she:

• Strongly supported Kellogg in his medical work (especially pre-1900)
• Called medical missionary work the “right arm of the gospel” (this part is real)
• Described Kellogg as having a God-given role as a physician

But—this is crucial—her support was:

➤ Role-specific, not blanket endorsement​

She supported:

• His work in health reform
• The sanitarium mission
• Medical evangelism

She did not give him unlimited authority or say everything he did was from God.

---

3. Did she tell people to “obey Kellogg”?​

There is no solid evidence she gave a sweeping command like:




That kind of absolute obedience language is inconsistent with her repeated emphasis that:

• God alone is authority
• No human leader should be followed blindly

In fact, later she warned strongly against centralizing authority in Kellogg.

---

4. What about Kellogg’s treatments of children?​

Here’s the uncomfortable truth:

✔ Yes — Kellogg published harmful recommendations​

In Plain Facts for Old and Young (1888), he recommended:

• Painful procedures (including circumcision without anesthesia)
• Chemical applications to genital areas

By modern standards, these are:
clearly abusive and medically unethical

---

5. Did EGW know about or endorse those practices?​

This is the key question.

There is no evidence that:​

• She specifically endorsed those treatments
• She referenced or approved those methods

What we do know:​

• Her endorsements were general (his role, the institution, health reform)
• Not detailed approvals of every medical procedure he taught

---

6. Her later stance on Kellogg (very important)​

By the early 1900s, especially during the pantheism crisis, she:

• Publicly rebuked him
• Said he was not safe to lead
• Warned others not to trust his influence

This shows clearly:
Her earlier support was not unconditional or permanent

---

7. So what’s really going on with these allegations?​

The claims you posted combine:

✔ True elements:​

• Kellogg promoted harmful treatments
• EGW strongly supported his medical work at one time
• She used language about “God appointing” roles

Distorted elements:​

• Quotes exaggerated into absolute, unquestioning endorsement
• Claims she required obedience to Kellogg as divine authority
• Implication she approved specific abusive practices

---

Final, evidence-based conclusion​

• Did EGW call Kellogg God-appointed?
  ✔ Yes — in a limited vocational sense (physician/medical work)
• Did Kellogg promote harmful treatments?
  ✔ Yes — clearly by modern standards
• Did EGW endorse those harmful treatments?
  No evidence
• Did she command blind obedience to Kellogg?
  No reliable evidence — and it contradicts her broader teachings

Thought you didn’t like AI. If you look at the second post you’ll see the exact quotes from her writings. And as your AI reply states, ellen supported his medical work. What was his medical work? Pouring acid on girls and circumcising boys with no anesthetic. All of his practices were published a decade before she made those quotes.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

1. VERIFIED EGW STATEMENTS ABOUT KELLOGG (WITH CONTEXT)​

A. She supported his role as a physician​

Here are authentic statements (paraphrase kept minimal, wording preserved where reliable):

✔ 1904 (Letter 303, 1903 / published in Manuscript Releases)​

“God has specified his appointed work as His physician.”

Meaning:

• She believed Kellogg had a God-given role in medical work
• Not that everything he did was approved

---

✔ 1885 (Manuscript 19, 1885)​

Kellogg should “hold himself in the place that God has appointed him.”

Again:

• Role-based language
• Not blanket endorsement

---

B. She affirmed medical missionary work as the “right arm”​

This is a real EGW concept, but often misused.

✔ 1901 (Testimonies, Vol. 7, p. 59)​

“The medical missionary work is the right arm of the gospel.”

Important:

• This refers to the work itself
• Not to Kellogg personally as “the right arm”

---

C. She warned AGAINST elevating any one man​

This is where the viral quotes fall apart.

✔ 1899 (Letter 70, 1899)​

“No one man is to be mind and judgment for all other minds.”

---

✔ 1903 (Letter 300, 1903)​

“Dr. Kellogg is not to be placed where he will control the work.”

---

✔ 1904 (Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2)​

“He is not to be trusted to manage large responsibilities.”

---

These directly contradict the claim:

“To oppose him is to oppose God”
“All must obey him”

---

2. WHAT ABOUT THOSE SPECIFIC QUOTES YOU POSTED?​

Let’s compare:

---

Claim #1:​

“Those who oppose him are opposing the work of God… he must be sustained…”

Reality:​

• No verified EGW source contains this wording
• Contradicted by her later warnings

---

Claim #2:​

“Students… are to obey his instructions… refuse to follow him is to refuse light from God”

Reality:​

• No credible EGW source supports this
• Opposite of her repeated teaching:
  • Don’t follow human authority blindly
  • Test everything

---

Claim #3 (partially true but altered):​

“Medical missionary work… Dr. Kellogg is the head… right arm…”

Reality:​

• TRUE: “medical missionary work = right arm”
• FALSE: tying that directly to Kellogg personally as unquestioned leader

​

---

Important historical context​

In the 1800s:

• Many mainstream physicians promoted similar harsh “anti-masturbation” treatments
• Kellogg was not uniquely extreme for his time, though still troubling today

---

4. HER LATER BREAK WITH KELLOGG (CRUCIAL)​

By 1902–1907:


She becomes very direct:

✔ 1903​

“His mind has been led into false science.”

✔ 1904​

“The light given me is that Dr. Kellogg is not to be trusted.”

✔ 1907​

She warns that his influence is dangerous

---

This shows:

• Her earlier support was conditional and limited
• She ultimately rejected his leadership

---

5. CLEAN SUMMARY (NO SPIN)​

✔ TRUE​

• EGW supported Kellogg as a physician and leader for a time
• She used “God-appointed” language about his role
• She promoted medical missionary work strongly

✔ ALSO TRUE​

• Kellogg promoted harmful treatments by modern standards

NOT SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE​

• That EGW:
  • Endorsed those specific treatments
  • Declared opposing Kellogg = opposing God
  • Commanded blind obedience to him

✔ CLEAR FROM RECORD​

• She later rebuked and distanced herself from him strongly

God does not judge us based on association what would that say about Judas being one of the 12 disciple's. We were not there, no one knows the heart of EGW but God. I trust His righteous Judgment will all have to face one day soon Ecc12:13-14

 

[ATG]

That isn’t true. Outside of the fact of the record of Jesus and Apostles keeping it, Heb 4:9, 10 says a keeping of it remains.

This is how obedience to an old carnal commandment keeps the mind carnal apart from that of Christ.

Heb 4:8
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The 7th day of rest was not a Sabbath in the beginning, nor is the rest in Christ Jesus only a sabbath day.

1. If the promised day of rest in Jesus Christ is a sabbath day, then there was no sabbath day of rest in the land of Israel under Joshua. For they were given no sabbath day to rest.

2. Ceasing from our own works, are works of our own will without Christ, not our own workday.

And so, this is all they have in response to their being no commanded Sabbath day in the NT Scriptures. A carnal-minded day of rest, where no 'sabbath' is written. It's the same for the created-christ believers, with Jehovah's name not appearing once in NT Scriptures. All they have of their 'Jehovah' by name is an allusion through Alleluia in Rev 19.

We see how carnal-day keepers (who don't keep it anyway), are as carnal minded in their handling of the Spirit's Scriptures, as are the believers in a created christ-angel.

Anyone who has only one special day of rest in the Spirit and worship of God, has no days of rest in Christ Jesus.

And Matt 24:20 shows that Jesus expected His followers to be keeping the Sabbath up to the end of time.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you,

2Pe 3:15
Which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Jesus did not speak of keeping a sabbath day, when fleeing persecution on a sabbath day.

Mat 24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Scripture does not ever say there are no more sabbath days. Only that after the Lord of the Sabbath's death, burial, and resurrection, there would be no more sabbath days by law to keep.

Likewise, OT Jews still have their males circumcised on the 8th day by law, but there is no more 8th day of circumcision commanded by law of the risen Lord of glory.

There was no Sabbath law in the beginning of creation, when God rested o the 7th day from His works, nor is there a Sabbath law in the rest of Christ, nor will there be a Sabbath law in New Jerusalem on the new earth, when all men therein rest with God and the Lamb.

Nor is there any such thing as an 'end of time'.

Heb 1:10
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

 

[ATG]

I did not dismiss anything, I wrote and explained col 2:16 and more see post #5137 of this thread.

You dismiss Col 2, or accuse Col 2 Scripture of contradicting gospel Scripture, that you corrupt. You then write and explain how Col 2 ought be dismissed, so as not to contradict your corruption of gospel Scripture.

 

[Qt]

This is how obedience to an old carnal commandment keeps the mind carnal apart from that of Christ.

Oh, you going to show me?

No thanks. I will stick with God and His Christ.

See how easy it is to slur each other through the muck.

I’d rather not since it looks as if you are trying, so let’s just stick with posting on scripture and leave our comments about one another out of it.
Okay?

When I have time I will look at the rest of your post.

Take care

 

[pinebeach]

I hope and pray people are not actually believing you ..
I've read quite a bit of Sister White, medical advice, (eg. Ministry of Healing ), very little of Dr. Kellogg and have never heard of any such "treatment"
You will have to support your slander with a verifiable quote, from EGW .. as I do, when pointing out the disobedience to God, here in these forums. SHOW ME !!

I gave this unfounded accusation to AI, which does fairly well at research thru mountains of literature and this is what it returns;

"Based on the provided search context, there is no record of Ellen White or Dr. J. H. Kellogg writing that Ellen White condoned pouring acid on children's genitals.

The search results indicate the following regarding this topic:

• Medical Context of the Era: A Spectrum Magazine article notes that in the 19th century, the medical community offered various extreme treatments for masturbation (referred to as "solitary vice"), including "acid burns, cauterization, ... snipping the dorsal nerve of the penis," and "brass poisoning."
• 
  
• Ellen White's Specific Stance: The context explicitly contrasts these severe medical practices with Ellen White's approach, stating, "On the other hand, I am startled by how much less severe her remedies were." Her recommended methods included "educating youngsters about the dangers," suggesting children "not sleep together," avoiding "spicy food," and keeping children "busy with important projects."
• 
  
• Direct Quote on Treatment: Ellen White is quoted in the search results advising against harsh treatment: "Be not hasty and agitated, and [do not treat] your children with censure. Such a course would only cause rebellion in them."
• Kellogg's Relationship to the Topic: While Dr. Kellogg was a "vigorous foe of masturbation" and a proponent of health reforms, the provided text does not attribute any endorsement of acid burns by him or Ellen White to the specific act of torturing children. The text mentions that Kellogg discovered Ellen White had copied health advice from L.B. Coles, but does not link them to acid treatments.

The claim that Ellen White wrote it was "ok" for Dr. Kellogg to pour acid on children is not supported by the provided search results, which instead highlight her preference for educational and non-invasive remedies over the surgical and chemical interventions common in her time.

So Pinebeach ! Give us a reference quote to verify your allegations, or relegate yourself to the realms of malicious liars.
AND ! Why are you ignoring the large body of so-called Christian doctors, who support and actively perform transgender operations by genital mutilation of children. Are you hypocritical as well ?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​

Instead of character assasination as per SDA doctrine, take note I stated (in more than one place because you folk are just about impossible to lead to the truth) that you can still purchase the sadist doctors book(s) on Amazon and decent research (if you know how to do that instead of just mimicking what other SDA members spout here).

In other words, you can read his torture methods yourself, which include putting acid on little girls genitals because sex is dirty and must be avoided at all costs even if the child does not yet know what that is. Ellen also considered sex to be dirty and said women must avoid doing anything to 'seduce' their husbands (although how you seduce someone you have perfect legal right to do that with, if you are so iniclined, is bizarre). So, why did she even get married? The insane teachings of this obviously not quite right in the head woman are to be kicked out with the empty cans of your dogs food)

So toddler Rob 1234567, you have failed at your attempt to make it seem I made something up. Back to SDA apologetic class with you.

So so tiresome these personal comments in lieu of an actual and intelligent query.

 

[pinebeach]

The stupidity of so much of White's teachings are along the same lines as her views on sex and yet she insisted God gave all these visions and dreams and the doctor was from God and on and on and on.

I guess someone needs to inform God that the forbidden fruit from the garden has led to all sorts of debauchery.

WARNING: Reading some of the comments from White's teachings and doctrine, can leave a person with a lower IQ

 

[pinebeach]

You dismiss Col 2, or accuse Col 2 Scripture of contradicting gospel Scripture, that you corrupt. You then write and explain how Col 2 ought be dismissed, so as not to contradict your corruption of gospel Scripture.

You won't believe the vast amount of scriptures that have been submitted in the commandment thread by skeeper with regards to
chapter 2 of Colossians explaining to us peons what that chapter actually means because we cannot trust our lying eyes.

Basically, these SDA people and of course vassal who has his own personal religion since he states he does not go to church and is not SDA, is that we are stupid and ignorant and a bother to even respond to because only an idiot would think that Colossians actually says what it says, looks like what it says, sounds like what it says and IS what it says. And all the references to similar scritpures in the NT are deflecting from the 10 commandments which we need to obey for our salvation.

I can hear the eye rolls they practice every time they must needs respond to the loonies who actually study and understand scripture.

Go figure.

 

[pinebeach]

Only if one chooses not to believe God at His word

Heb8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Jesus ratified His covenant by His death Mat26:28 not that He is the covenant.

Well I will say your consistency in error and taking verses out of context shows how dependable you are.

 

[GWH]

So you believe Jesus sinned even through He said He didn't. I really have no words, its one of the saddest teaching and allegations people make against Jesus.

John 8:45. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me
46Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
47He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

John15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22“Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Had Jesus sinned just once and the false allegations that were made against Him were true, He would not be our Savior today.

The Sabbath came from Creation thus saith the LORD

Exo20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

No wonder why Jesus said it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath and one can still do evil by profaning Neh13:17 Isa56:2 Mark3:4 instead of deleting this commandment- He promised He would not Mat5:18-19 Psa89:34 because He said we join ourselves to Him and serve Him as our Master Isa56:6 Mark2:28 Rom6:16KJV- not the one who tried to change it against His will Dan7:25

No sin, because Jesus is Lord of the Torah and commanded the Gospel that superseded it,
It is sad your brain-washing does not allow you to understand that truth.
Perhaps God understands and will cut you some slack,

 

[vassal]

You dismiss Col 2, or accuse Col 2 Scripture of contradicting gospel Scripture, that you corrupt. You then write and explain how Col 2 ought be dismissed, so as not to contradict your corruption of gospel Scripture.

false accusations, show me what you say here that I corrupt scripture and saying dismissed the col verses, prove it or keep silent, you guys always accuse but NEVER demonstrate because you cannot.

 

[ATG]

Basically, these SDA people and of course vassal who has his own personal religion since he states he does not go to church and is not SDA,

Not surprising, since like all SDA, none of their congregations keep their sabbaths in the first place.

Only a few will admit that they do not command against employment/careers requiring work on their sabbath days. What they do instead is accept corban donations to defray the 'transgression'.

All modern pseudo sabbath-keepers are frauds. Many of them would have been stoned, when the 4th commandment was law in the OT.

Like the JW's, they just fill themselves up with their volumes of study for corrupting the Bible.